[stylist] Creative nonfiction is not made-up material

Mon Mar 5 17:59:17 UTC 2012

laughing!
ok, let the fun begin.

I decided today, before coming to the computer to check my E-mails, that I 
would try to keep my mind focused today on "thinking."  I mean, to try to 
focus on _thinking about how I am thinking_ and that seems like a reasonable 
goal for me today. My little break is over now, and I am going back upstairs 
to my library to think about my thinking some more.

I think it is fun and interesting to have good discussions on worthwhile 
things such as thoughts about thoughts.

Lynda
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jacqueline Williams" <jackieleepoet at cox.net>
To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, March 05, 2012 12:43 PM
Subject: Re: [stylist] Creative nonfiction is not made-up material

> Lynda,
> Thanks so much for refreshing my memory. If there are indeed rules, 
> perhaps
> we should start breaking them so we can join the "moneyed" club.
> Jackie
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Lynda Lambert
> Sent: Monday, March 05, 2012 10:12 AM
> To: Writer's Division Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [stylist] Creative nonfiction is not made-up material
>
> It was James Frey, the book _A Million Little Pieces_
> Frey has had a very successful writing career. He was actively engaged in
> writing successful screen plays before Oprah made him Uber-famous. And, of
> course has published best selling books since that time. Like it or not, 
> he
> wrote a "good" book and keeps right on writing good books. It all made for
> good TV viewing and as we know it is memorable. Here we are, 8 years after
> the face, and talking about this author today.
>
> Lynda
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Jacqueline Williams" <jackieleepoet at cox.net>
> To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Monday, March 05, 2012 11:52 AM
> Subject: Re: [stylist] Creative nonfiction is not made-up material
>
>
>> Lynda,
>> This is a wonderful metaphor.
>> I am so stimulated by two excellent writers with differing points of 
>> view.
>> I am trying to think of the name of the man who wrote a best-selling
>> memoir
>> that was selected by Oprah Winfrey as her book selection. When she found
>> it
>> was based on lies, she shamed him publicly. As far as I know, he is still
>> writing and making money at it. I do not know if there were legal
>> ramifications to his writing, only that Oprah was furious.
>> Jackie
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf Of Lynda Lambert
>> Sent: Monday, March 05, 2012 9:34 AM
>> To: Writer's Division Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Creative nonfiction is not made-up material
>>
>> I have to say I am fascinated by the strong, and very strange, reaction
>> that
>>
>> a little three diget word has  aroused. Who knew that to meniton a "lie"
>> would bring on such passion. It makes me smile to think of it!   I am
>> accustomed to dealing with discussions and distractions in the college 
>> and
>> university classrooms where I have taught for many years. It goes with 
>> the
>> territory. But, it is fun when even I am surprised.
>>
>> Artists and writers lie and steal. I plead guilty to both and I certainly
>> hope that the hundreds of students in my classrooms over the years 
>> learned
>> to do it, too. Professors and our ideas have a way or reproducing and
>> multiplying.
>>
>> We take something from one place, and we take it to a different place. We
>> are like a turck driver - we pick up a load, travel with it, and deliver
>> it
>> to another place. It is never the same when it reaches the final
>> destination. A transition occurs in transit.
>>
>> Our load is "ideas" and "inspiration" and "a hunch" or an "obsession."
>>
>> It is  from this  stuff that our creative work emerges.
>> And, sometimes even we are hoodwinked by our own sacred cows.
>>
>> Lynda (spelled  L  Y  N  D  A  )
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Eve Sanchez" <3rdeyeonly at gmail.com>
>> To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Monday, March 05, 2012 1:24 AM
>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Creative nonfiction is not made-up material
>>
>>
>>> As Dr. Gregory House says Everybody lies." A politician does not want to
>>> be
>>> called a lier, but if the shoe fits. Much of creative nonfiction is not
>>> about someone's personal experiences, but rather something that happened
>>> in
>>> past history. It, in most cases, is impossible to know what those long
>>> dead
>>> characters said, or ate, or wore on a certain day. Yet if these things
>>> were
>>> not presumed to the best of the authors ability through research of what
>>> is
>>> known about time period and/or incident concerned, the books would be
>>> awfully boring. I for one am thankful for the creativeness of the 
>>> authors
>>> of creative nonfiction to weave such lies.  A word that is not so harsh
>>> as
>>> lye,but just as cleansing. Diolch, Eve
>>>
>>> On Sun, Mar 4, 2012 at 12:37 PM, Bridgit Pollpeter
>>> <bpollpeter at hotmail.com>wrote:
>>>
>>>> Linda,
>>>>
>>>> We may have to agree to disagree . I have a degree in creative writing,
>>>> my emphasis in creative nonfiction, IE, the personal essay and memoir
>>>> writing. I may have very little knowledge and experience on most
>>>> subjects, but this is one area I'm well-versed in.
>>>>
>>>> Memoir writing does not contain "lies." When writing any creative
>>>> nonfiction piece, one may use dialogue, which is yes, remembered to 
>>>> ones
>>>> best ability, but it's not a "lie." When in conversation with a friend,
>>>> you may talk about a conversation with another person. You won't be 
>>>> able
>>>> to relay that conversation verbatim, but you summarize. It's still the
>>>> truth. Look at it like this: when you summarize a book, you are not
>>>> reliving it moment by moment or line by line, but you are still
>>>> summarizing the truth. If I use dialogue in a piece of CNF, it will 
>>>> most
>>>> likely not be verbatim, but it' ssummarized, still true though.
>>>>
>>>> Creative nonfiction also can use conjecture, but it is clear that a
>>>> writer is using conjecture. If I write what I believe your thoughts are
>>>> and do not state it's just my opinion, then I'm making something up 
>>>> with
>>>> the intention of it being understood it's in deed real. However, if I
>>>> state I'm conjecturing with language, then it's clear I'm only 
>>>> guessing.
>>>> Again, this is not a "lie," but me adding layers to a piece with
>>>> conjecture; plucking up puzzle pieces.
>>>>
>>>> Using descriptive language only allows CNF writers to create a scene, 
>>>> to
>>>> provide sensory details. Again, you do this to the best of your memory,
>>>> but it's in no way a lie or fictitious. As long as the thoughts,
>>>> feelings and events are real, there's nothing fictitious about CNF even
>>>> if details such as location, setting and dialogue are written to the
>>>> writers best memory of them but not exact. If a painter paints a forest
>>>> they once visited but don't paint some trees exactly where they stand 
>>>> in
>>>> real-life, does this render the painting completely made-up and 
>>>> imagined
>>>> in the mind of the artist? I'd say no; and the same goes for CNF
>>>> writers.
>>>>
>>>> You can also look at CNF this way: If you and I go to the same event at
>>>> the same time, we will most likely take away different memories. Does
>>>> this mean, just because I had a slightly different experience of the
>>>> event than you, or vice versus, that one of us is lying about our
>>>> experience? Of course not. In creative nonfiction, it's about the
>>>> experience, and how that experience can be relatable to others and
>>>> transcend into a universal.
>>>>
>>>> So, I respectfully say that it's wrong to categorize CNF as
>>>> fictionalized accounts of real-life, or to say that "lies" are told in
>>>> CNF. The use of dialogue, descriptive language, metaphor and imagery,
>>>> conjecture, different POV's, etc., this does not render a piece of CNF
>>>> as fiction, and a CNF writer is not incorporating lies into their 
>>>> story.
>>>> We are using creative, literary techniques and devices to not only tell
>>>> about our real-life events, but to find a morsel of universal
>>>> understanding; to use our life and experiences creating a metaphor that
>>>> many can relate to, or creating a finely honed image others can take
>>>> something from.
>>>>
>>>> Feelings and thoughts are very abstract things. To create this
>>>> abstraction with words often takes very creative means; it doesn't turn
>>>> the material into fiction. Annie Dillard's Eclipse is one of the most
>>>> famous personal essays studied in writing and literature programs. She
>>>> takes a very real moment from a specific time in her life but delves
>>>> into a spiritual plane. Because she uses her inner thoughts a lot, it
>>>> doesn't mean she's making things up; this would be saying thoughts and
>>>> feelings are not real.
>>>>
>>>> Or when I tell you about a specific moment from my childhood, am I 
>>>> lying
>>>> about it if I don't remember exactly what happened, or quote verbatim
>>>> what people said? No. So why would it be considered made-up if I write
>>>> it?
>>>>
>>>> Sorry, but like I said, I've studied CNF for years now, and sat at the
>>>> feet of some great CNF writers, and trust me, none of us like to be 
>>>> told
>>>> we are lying or making material up. Using creative means does not mean
>>>> we are not also providing facts, and there is a form of CNF called
>>>> literary journalism. Joan Didion has a lot of great literary 
>>>> journalism.
>>>> LJ also relies on creative techniques to "report facts."
>>>>
>>>> Sincerely,
>>>> Bridgit Kuenning-Pollpeter
>>>> Read my blog at:
>>>> http://blogs.livewellnebraska.com/author/bpollpeter/
>>>>
>>>> "History is not what happened; history is what was written down."
>>>> The Expected One- Kathleen McGowan
>>>>
>>>> Message: 18
>>>> Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2012 18:07:29 -0500
>>>> From: "Lynda Lambert" <llambert at zoominternet.net>
>>>> To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Memoirs and autobiographies
>>>> Message-ID: <1DC0442900B54042B78AAF4F501F3A25 at Lambert>
>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
>>>>        reply-type=original
>>>>
>>>> I guess it sounds immoral to say that it is a lie? Not at all. Lies are
>>>> delightful, and that is why we write; and why we love literature.
>>>>
>>>> The memoir is greatly enhanced accounts of a  truth  - it is a glorius
>>>> lie
>>>> that we tell when writing our story. Our glorious lie is the story we
>>>> have
>>>> woven together from the fragments of our memory, imagination, and our
>>>> research into details that we do not remember at all. The true facts
>>>> mingle
>>>> with these other aspects to for the woven tapestry of the story we are
>>>> telling.
>>>> Otherwise, we would just be a newspaper writer and give the "facts,
>>>> m'aam,
>>>> just the facts."
>>>>
>>>> Lynda
>>>>
>>>>
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