[stylist] Creative nonfiction is not made-up material

Tue Mar 6 01:37:24 UTC 2012

Lynda,
Lynda, you make me smile too. Diolch, Eve

On Mon, Mar 5, 2012 at 10:59 AM, Lynda Lambert <llambert at zoominternet.net>wrote:

> laughing!
> ok, let the fun begin.
>
> I decided today, before coming to the computer to check my E-mails, that I
> would try to keep my mind focused today on "thinking."  I mean, to try to
> focus on _thinking about how I am thinking_ and that seems like a
> reasonable goal for me today. My little break is over now, and I am going
> back upstairs to my library to think about my thinking some more.
>
> I think it is fun and interesting to have good discussions on worthwhile
> things such as thoughts about thoughts.
>
>
> Lynda
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jacqueline Williams" <
> jackieleepoet at cox.net>
> To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Monday, March 05, 2012 12:43 PM
>
> Subject: Re: [stylist] Creative nonfiction is not made-up material
>
>
>  Lynda,
>> Thanks so much for refreshing my memory. If there are indeed rules,
>> perhaps
>> we should start breaking them so we can join the "moneyed" club.
>> Jackie
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:stylist-bounces@**nfbnet.org<stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org>]
>> On
>> Behalf Of Lynda Lambert
>> Sent: Monday, March 05, 2012 10:12 AM
>> To: Writer's Division Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Creative nonfiction is not made-up material
>>
>> It was James Frey, the book _A Million Little Pieces_
>> Frey has had a very successful writing career. He was actively engaged in
>> writing successful screen plays before Oprah made him Uber-famous. And, of
>> course has published best selling books since that time. Like it or not,
>> he
>> wrote a "good" book and keeps right on writing good books. It all made for
>> good TV viewing and as we know it is memorable. Here we are, 8 years after
>> the face, and talking about this author today.
>>
>> Lynda
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jacqueline Williams" <
>> jackieleepoet at cox.net>
>> To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Monday, March 05, 2012 11:52 AM
>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Creative nonfiction is not made-up material
>>
>>
>> Lynda,
>>> This is a wonderful metaphor.
>>> I am so stimulated by two excellent writers with differing points of
>>> view.
>>> I am trying to think of the name of the man who wrote a best-selling
>>> memoir
>>> that was selected by Oprah Winfrey as her book selection. When she found
>>> it
>>> was based on lies, she shamed him publicly. As far as I know, he is still
>>> writing and making money at it. I do not know if there were legal
>>> ramifications to his writing, only that Oprah was furious.
>>> Jackie
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:stylist-bounces@**nfbnet.org<stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org>]
>>> On
>>> Behalf Of Lynda Lambert
>>> Sent: Monday, March 05, 2012 9:34 AM
>>> To: Writer's Division Mailing List
>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Creative nonfiction is not made-up material
>>>
>>> I have to say I am fascinated by the strong, and very strange, reaction
>>> that
>>>
>>> a little three diget word has  aroused. Who knew that to meniton a "lie"
>>> would bring on such passion. It makes me smile to think of it!   I am
>>> accustomed to dealing with discussions and distractions in the college
>>> and
>>> university classrooms where I have taught for many years. It goes with
>>> the
>>> territory. But, it is fun when even I am surprised.
>>>
>>> Artists and writers lie and steal. I plead guilty to both and I certainly
>>> hope that the hundreds of students in my classrooms over the years
>>> learned
>>> to do it, too. Professors and our ideas have a way or reproducing and
>>> multiplying.
>>>
>>> We take something from one place, and we take it to a different place. We
>>> are like a turck driver - we pick up a load, travel with it, and deliver
>>> it
>>> to another place. It is never the same when it reaches the final
>>> destination. A transition occurs in transit.
>>>
>>> Our load is "ideas" and "inspiration" and "a hunch" or an "obsession."
>>>
>>> It is  from this  stuff that our creative work emerges.
>>> And, sometimes even we are hoodwinked by our own sacred cows.
>>>
>>> Lynda (spelled  L  Y  N  D  A  )
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eve Sanchez" <3rdeyeonly at gmail.com>
>>> To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Monday, March 05, 2012 1:24 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Creative nonfiction is not made-up material
>>>
>>>
>>> As Dr. Gregory House says Everybody lies." A politician does not want to
>>>> be
>>>> called a lier, but if the shoe fits. Much of creative nonfiction is not
>>>> about someone's personal experiences, but rather something that happened
>>>> in
>>>> past history. It, in most cases, is impossible to know what those long
>>>> dead
>>>> characters said, or ate, or wore on a certain day. Yet if these things
>>>> were
>>>> not presumed to the best of the authors ability through research of what
>>>> is
>>>> known about time period and/or incident concerned, the books would be
>>>> awfully boring. I for one am thankful for the creativeness of the
>>>> authors
>>>> of creative nonfiction to weave such lies.  A word that is not so harsh
>>>> as
>>>> lye,but just as cleansing. Diolch, Eve
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Mar 4, 2012 at 12:37 PM, Bridgit Pollpeter
>>>> <bpollpeter at hotmail.com>wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Linda,
>>>>>
>>>>> We may have to agree to disagree . I have a degree in creative writing,
>>>>> my emphasis in creative nonfiction, IE, the personal essay and memoir
>>>>> writing. I may have very little knowledge and experience on most
>>>>> subjects, but this is one area I'm well-versed in.
>>>>>
>>>>> Memoir writing does not contain "lies." When writing any creative
>>>>> nonfiction piece, one may use dialogue, which is yes, remembered to
>>>>> ones
>>>>> best ability, but it's not a "lie." When in conversation with a friend,
>>>>> you may talk about a conversation with another person. You won't be
>>>>> able
>>>>> to relay that conversation verbatim, but you summarize. It's still the
>>>>> truth. Look at it like this: when you summarize a book, you are not
>>>>> reliving it moment by moment or line by line, but you are still
>>>>> summarizing the truth. If I use dialogue in a piece of CNF, it will
>>>>> most
>>>>> likely not be verbatim, but it' ssummarized, still true though.
>>>>>
>>>>> Creative nonfiction also can use conjecture, but it is clear that a
>>>>> writer is using conjecture. If I write what I believe your thoughts are
>>>>> and do not state it's just my opinion, then I'm making something up
>>>>> with
>>>>> the intention of it being understood it's in deed real. However, if I
>>>>> state I'm conjecturing with language, then it's clear I'm only
>>>>> guessing.
>>>>> Again, this is not a "lie," but me adding layers to a piece with
>>>>> conjecture; plucking up puzzle pieces.
>>>>>
>>>>> Using descriptive language only allows CNF writers to create a scene,
>>>>> to
>>>>> provide sensory details. Again, you do this to the best of your memory,
>>>>> but it's in no way a lie or fictitious. As long as the thoughts,
>>>>> feelings and events are real, there's nothing fictitious about CNF even
>>>>> if details such as location, setting and dialogue are written to the
>>>>> writers best memory of them but not exact. If a painter paints a forest
>>>>> they once visited but don't paint some trees exactly where they stand
>>>>> in
>>>>> real-life, does this render the painting completely made-up and
>>>>> imagined
>>>>> in the mind of the artist? I'd say no; and the same goes for CNF
>>>>> writers.
>>>>>
>>>>> You can also look at CNF this way: If you and I go to the same event at
>>>>> the same time, we will most likely take away different memories. Does
>>>>> this mean, just because I had a slightly different experience of the
>>>>> event than you, or vice versus, that one of us is lying about our
>>>>> experience? Of course not. In creative nonfiction, it's about the
>>>>> experience, and how that experience can be relatable to others and
>>>>> transcend into a universal.
>>>>>
>>>>> So, I respectfully say that it's wrong to categorize CNF as
>>>>> fictionalized accounts of real-life, or to say that "lies" are told in
>>>>> CNF. The use of dialogue, descriptive language, metaphor and imagery,
>>>>> conjecture, different POV's, etc., this does not render a piece of CNF
>>>>> as fiction, and a CNF writer is not incorporating lies into their
>>>>> story.
>>>>> We are using creative, literary techniques and devices to not only tell
>>>>> about our real-life events, but to find a morsel of universal
>>>>> understanding; to use our life and experiences creating a metaphor that
>>>>> many can relate to, or creating a finely honed image others can take
>>>>> something from.
>>>>>
>>>>> Feelings and thoughts are very abstract things. To create this
>>>>> abstraction with words often takes very creative means; it doesn't turn
>>>>> the material into fiction. Annie Dillard's Eclipse is one of the most
>>>>> famous personal essays studied in writing and literature programs. She
>>>>> takes a very real moment from a specific time in her life but delves
>>>>> into a spiritual plane. Because she uses her inner thoughts a lot, it
>>>>> doesn't mean she's making things up; this would be saying thoughts and
>>>>> feelings are not real.
>>>>>
>>>>> Or when I tell you about a specific moment from my childhood, am I
>>>>> lying
>>>>> about it if I don't remember exactly what happened, or quote verbatim
>>>>> what people said? No. So why would it be considered made-up if I write
>>>>> it?
>>>>>
>>>>> Sorry, but like I said, I've studied CNF for years now, and sat at the
>>>>> feet of some great CNF writers, and trust me, none of us like to be
>>>>> told
>>>>> we are lying or making material up. Using creative means does not mean
>>>>> we are not also providing facts, and there is a form of CNF called
>>>>> literary journalism. Joan Didion has a lot of great literary
>>>>> journalism.
>>>>> LJ also relies on creative techniques to "report facts."
>>>>>
>>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>> Bridgit Kuenning-Pollpeter
>>>>> Read my blog at:
>>>>> http://blogs.livewellnebraska.**com/author/bpollpeter/<http://blogs.livewellnebraska.com/author/bpollpeter/>
>>>>>
>>>>> "History is not what happened; history is what was written down."
>>>>> The Expected One- Kathleen McGowan
>>>>>
>>>>> Message: 18
>>>>> Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2012 18:07:29 -0500
>>>>> From: "Lynda Lambert" <llambert at zoominternet.net>
>>>>> To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Memoirs and autobiographies
>>>>> Message-ID: <**1DC0442900B54042B78AAF4F501F3A**25 at Lambert>
>>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
>>>>>       reply-type=original
>>>>>
>>>>> I guess it sounds immoral to say that it is a lie? Not at all. Lies are
>>>>> delightful, and that is why we write; and why we love literature.
>>>>>
>>>>> The memoir is greatly enhanced accounts of a  truth  - it is a glorius
>>>>> lie
>>>>> that we tell when writing our story. Our glorious lie is the story we
>>>>> have
>>>>> woven together from the fragments of our memory, imagination, and our
>>>>> research into details that we do not remember at all. The true facts
>>>>> mingle
>>>>> with these other aspects to for the woven tapestry of the story we are
>>>>> telling.
>>>>> Otherwise, we would just be a newspaper writer and give the "facts,
>>>>> m'aam,
>>>>> just the facts."
>>>>>
>>>>> Lynda
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ______________________________**_________________
>>>>> Writers Division web site:
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