[stylist] Pet PVS- Correcting fellow writers
Lynda Lambert
llambert at zoominternet.net
Fri Mar 30 21:36:24 UTC 2012
Kudos to you, Paul! The reason a bully gets by with it is because nobody
wants to say "no" and bring attention to it. I have suspected that this is
something that has been going on for a long time, and therefore only a very
few of the members DARE to say anything in FEAR of being corrected,
chastised, or belittled.
Is there some place where a person can fill out a "bully report" like kids
do in school? (just kidding)
If this was my only window to the NFB, I would never ever have been
interested. Fortunately, I was directed to another division as my first NFB
experience and it has been such a good one. And, when staying at the
facility in Baltimore last year, I was so impressed with the entire
organization. What I have encountered here on the Writer's list is in no way
what I have experienced anywhere else. I do not think this kind of
"ranting" and belittling of others on this list is in any way representative
of the NFB organization as a whole.
I have heard form some others who are saying the same things as you, Paul.
I, thought it was just me, too. When it first happened, I felt like I was
doing something wrong, or had been inappropriate in some way. And, then it
continued. Each time I posted anything significant, there it was again,
Ranting.
Keep writing, Paul! Do not let a RANT stop you in your tracks. It is not
open season on hunting our fellow list members.
Lynda
Lynda Lambert
104 River Road
Ellwood City, PA 16117
724 758 4979
My Blog: http://www.walkingbyinnervision.blogspot.com
My Website: http://lyndalambert.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "PAUL BAVER" <pebaver at verizon.net>
To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, March 30, 2012 4:12 PM
Subject: Re: [stylist] Pet PVS- Correcting fellow writers
> Bravo Linda, I joined about two years ago, and am not, in no way any
> expert in this writing process, I to, was lambasted by the rant, I'm not
> sure why the rant is so unhappy, or why the rant seams to be so full of
> bitterness, but the rant is. The rant is the reason why, I really don't
> comment or address, anything at all. Once the wrath of the rant comes down
> on you, I don't need a second round. I applaud you, and your very sincere
> thoughts. I'll brace myself, for my chastising by the rant now. Paul E
> Baver
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Lynda Lambert" <llambert at zoominternet.net>
> To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, March 30, 2012 8:45 AM
> Subject: Re: [stylist] Pet PVS- Correcting fellow writers
>
>
>>I have to say just a couple of things here. I am very new to this list.
>>When I saw there was a Writer's Division I thought how nice that would be
>>to be in touch with other writers. Since my sight loss four years ago, I
>>have very little contact with other writers. I was delighted to find this
>>list. I would suppose most of you are pleased to be here, too.
>>
>> I am a member of another Division for the past 2 or 3 years and it is so
>> enjoyable to be a part of it. The people on the list are so much fun to
>> talk with every day. They have taught me how to do so many things that I
>> needed help with because I still have so much to learn about sight loss
>> and how to do many things. I am so grateful to them all for their help.
>> In return, I try to help others as well, whenever I can. Recently, I even
>> taught a couple of classes on that list, and I am scheduled to teach
>> another one in May after I return from Puerto Rico.
>> Every person on that list is valuable, and the person who runs that list
>> is such an inspiration to everyone. That list has been my introduction to
>> NFB, and it has been a God-send in my life. I even got to go to NFB
>> headquarters a year ago, and met her in person. What a treasure she is!
>>
>> With that positive experience in mind, I joined this Writers Division.
>> Here, I have met some people that are the same, smart, talented, helpful,
>> kind, and encouraging. But then, to be honest, I have found the polar
>> opposite here, as well. It sure has been an unpleasant surprise.
>>
>> There is a word for it in literature. It is called the "rant."
>> When a person writes an opinion, or a comment, I have come to realize the
>> Rant will come out loud and clear.
>>
>> I read that there are over 100 people on this list. I also read that only
>> a small portion participate, maybe 15 or so? Don't you wonder why that
>> is? Who needs or desires to participate in a group when just an
>> innocent comment brings down thunder and lightening? Is this a one
>> person operation here? Or, is it a community of writers who have respect
>> for one another and appreciate the opportunity for exchange? The longer I
>> view this list the more I see that a bully seems to be runing the show
>> and if she does not like that person, they are ostracized, through her
>> rants.
>>
>> I see there are some really good qualities on this site. The ones who
>> take the time to put up a "word" for the day, with definitions is such a
>> good thing. Others have put up some really nice poems and reflections.
>> Others offer challenges for writing inspiration. All great things.
>> Personal stories have been so interesting and given a life to the person
>> whom we know only by a name on the screen. I am thankful to have met so
>> many of you here. Everyone is valuable, everyone had something to give,
>> everyone is worthwhile in my opinion.
>>
>> I certainly have not been offended by the folks who have offered comments
>> on the few things I had put up. One comment really made me go to the
>> books and figure out something I had not thought about. Others have given
>> me insight into some other things that I appreciate. Another member gave
>> one of my poems the best critique I could have imagined and showed me new
>> insights into my own work. I hope to be as helpful to others as I can be
>> and I have really enjoyed getting to know some of you off-list so much.
>> What a great group of folks here. We need everyone - and wouldn't it be
>> wonderful if more and more of those 100 plus on the list felt like
>> sharing and communicating, too? I think so.
>>
>> Thank you!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Lynda Lambert
>> 104 River Road
>> Ellwood City, PA 16117
>>
>> 724 758 4979
>>
>> My Blog: http://www.walkingbyinnervision.blogspot.com
>> My Website: http://lyndalambert.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Eve Sanchez" <3rdeyeonly at gmail.com>
>> To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2012 10:10 PM
>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Pet PVS- Correcting fellow writers
>>
>>
>>> Wow Bridgit, Where did I say anything about critiquing or feedback? You
>>> are reading things that were never written and by the way; this is the
>>> second time you have told me I should not be in this group. Thank you
>>> ever
>>> so much. Eve
>>>
>>> On Thu, Mar 29, 2012 at 4:20 PM, Bridgit Pollpeter
>>> <bpollpeter at hotmail.com>wrote:
>>>
>>>> Okay, prepare to brand me the B since that's what usually happens, but
>>>> here we go. And no, I'm not intending for this to become a never-ending
>>>> thread with no conclusion. I merely throw food out for thought here.
>>>>
>>>> Why belong to a community of writers where we share our work from
>>>> time-to-time if we do not want feedback and constructive criticism? The
>>>> greatest writers in the world have and do belong to some type of
>>>> writing
>>>> community in which they not only share their work but provide feedback
>>>> and constructive criticism.
>>>>
>>>> A loving, warm environment is necessary to this process because no one
>>>> is superior to anyone. We all have individual styles, voices, formats
>>>> and processes in which we write. We need to recognize the difference
>>>> between preference and wrong in terms of content, style and genre. Any
>>>> feedback should be done with sincerity and a general appreciation for
>>>> assisting fellow writers.
>>>>
>>>> Feedback is crucial however. You don't attack; you don't condescend;
>>>> you
>>>> don't take a derogatory tone, but you do provide feedback on what you
>>>> enjoy and what you think can use work. When it comes to established
>>>> rules and guidelines, you certainly point these out. Whether they be
>>>> errors made in carelessness or made from lack of knowledge, it does not
>>>> matter. Any writer should want a typo of any kind pointed out so it can
>>>> be fixed. Sure, many of us will eventually find those mistakes, but why
>>>> not take the assistance when offered? One less thing you have to do.
>>>>
>>>> Stephen King does not write a novel then turn it over an have it
>>>> published. Before he submits it, he has a group of trusted writing
>>>> friends and editor who pour through a manuscript with him, pointing out
>>>> the weak spots along with any grammatical and structural errors. Most
>>>> people are aware that C. S. Lewis and J. R. R. Tolkien were colleagues
>>>> who belonged to a group of writers who provided feedback for one
>>>> another. This is why Lewis an Tolkien often seem similar because they
>>>> gave constructive feedback to each other, often incorporating ideas
>>>> suggested by the other.
>>>>
>>>> There's nothing wrong with giving this feedback to each other, and no
>>>> one is affecting a superior attitude to do so. If I say your writing is
>>>> ridiculous and not worth my time, this is wrong and not the type of
>>>> feedback anyone should provide. If I say, however, I enjoyed this
>>>> section, but I feel character A does not have enough depth, or I like
>>>> your use of dialogue, but be careful of where you place punctuation
>>>> with
>>>> quotation marks, this is constructive criticism and very beneficial and
>>>> helpful to any writer. If I make comments such as these, it's not
>>>> because I think I know everything, or that I'm of a superior intellect
>>>> than you, or a better writer than you, it's simply because I see
>>>> potential and want to assist you in bringing out all the best aspects
>>>> of
>>>> your writing.
>>>>
>>>> In return, I expect similar feedback. Especially in the beginning
>>>> stages
>>>> with first drafts, we all need feedback. If I want to do my best work,
>>>> I
>>>> need a finger on the pulse of those reading it. Audience feedback is
>>>> the
>>>> only true way in which to learn what works and what doesn't in our
>>>> writing. It's great when you say you enjoy my writing and it's good,
>>>> but
>>>> this doesn't tell me much, or help me when revising. In short, it
>>>> doesn't help make me a better writer; I just fatten up on the praise
>>>> not
>>>> always aware of where I need to concentrate my revising and editing
>>>> efforts. This type of process is not contrary to a warm, loving an
>>>> generous atmosphere. As the saying goes, a true friend is honest, and I
>>>> think a similar comment can be said for writers.
>>>>
>>>> To say a place like Stylist should only be an outlet in which we sit
>>>> back and just enjoy each others work is not giving an outlet like
>>>> Stylist all the possibilities it can be. After material is published,
>>>> then I want to sit back and enjoy it. Before, whether it be my own work
>>>> or others, I want to get my hands dirty, ironing and polishing,
>>>> bringing
>>>> all the potential to the surface.
>>>>
>>>> My essay published in Breath and Shadow's winter issue is a piece that
>>>> I've worked on for about four years. It has gone through rounds of
>>>> revision including several workshops, and I had posted sections of it
>>>> on
>>>> Stylist to get feedback from those who cared to do so. What is in B and
>>>> S (ha-ha, just realized the initials here, grin) is something that not
>>>> only took time, as well as the result of my own creativity and editing,
>>>> but of the feedback from others. And I will still probably continue to
>>>> revise it over time.
>>>>
>>>> So I think it unfair to us as writers and to the intention of Stylist
>>>> to
>>>> say it's wrong or childish or the result of superior attitudes to
>>>> provide feedback when we post work here. Again, if you don't want
>>>> feedback from your peers, or can't handle it, a writing community of
>>>> any
>>>> kind is not the place for you. And editors, publishers and authors
>>>> published numerous times are not the only "experts" who can provide
>>>> constructive feedback. Our writing peers can have just as much
>>>> knowledge
>>>> and experience, and as I learned in university, ultimately it's up to
>>>> your intended audience who often are not writers or have any writing
>>>> experience/knowledge who determine the success of any writer. So why
>>>> not
>>>> take the opportunity to receive feedback from your peers? In fact, I
>>>> don't see those of us proving such feedback as being superior, but the
>>>> opposite; if you don't want feedback, it could be interpreted as you
>>>> thinking yourself too superior to accept feedback from anyone else. As
>>>> always, it's a matter of perspective.
>>>>
>>>> Sincerely,
>>>> Bridgit Kuenning-Pollpeter
>>>> Read my blog at:
>>>> http://blogs.livewellnebraska.com/author/bpollpeter/
>>>>
>>>> "History is not what happened; history is what was written down."
>>>> The Expected One- Kathleen McGowan
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Writers Division web site:
>>>> http://www.nfb-writers-division.net
>>>> <http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>>>>
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>>>
>>
>>
>>
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>
>
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