[stylist] Pet PVS- Correcting fellow writers
PAUL BAVER
pebaver at verizon.net
Fri Mar 30 23:14:04 UTC 2012
My hat off to you, thank you. Paul E Baver
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lynda Lambert" <llambert at zoominternet.net>
To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, March 30, 2012 5:36 PM
Subject: Re: [stylist] Pet PVS- Correcting fellow writers
> Kudos to you, Paul! The reason a bully gets by with it is because nobody
> wants to say "no" and bring attention to it. I have suspected that this is
> something that has been going on for a long time, and therefore only a
> very few of the members DARE to say anything in FEAR of being corrected,
> chastised, or belittled.
>
> Is there some place where a person can fill out a "bully report" like kids
> do in school? (just kidding)
>
> If this was my only window to the NFB, I would never ever have been
> interested. Fortunately, I was directed to another division as my first
> NFB experience and it has been such a good one. And, when staying at the
> facility in Baltimore last year, I was so impressed with the entire
> organization. What I have encountered here on the Writer's list is in no
> way what I have experienced anywhere else. I do not think this kind of
> "ranting" and belittling of others on this list is in any way
> representative of the NFB organization as a whole.
>
> I have heard form some others who are saying the same things as you, Paul.
> I, thought it was just me, too. When it first happened, I felt like I was
> doing something wrong, or had been inappropriate in some way. And, then it
> continued. Each time I posted anything significant, there it was again,
> Ranting.
>
> Keep writing, Paul! Do not let a RANT stop you in your tracks. It is not
> open season on hunting our fellow list members.
>
> Lynda
> Lynda Lambert
> 104 River Road
> Ellwood City, PA 16117
>
> 724 758 4979
>
> My Blog: http://www.walkingbyinnervision.blogspot.com
> My Website: http://lyndalambert.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "PAUL BAVER" <pebaver at verizon.net>
> To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, March 30, 2012 4:12 PM
> Subject: Re: [stylist] Pet PVS- Correcting fellow writers
>
>
>> Bravo Linda, I joined about two years ago, and am not, in no way any
>> expert in this writing process, I to, was lambasted by the rant, I'm not
>> sure why the rant is so unhappy, or why the rant seams to be so full of
>> bitterness, but the rant is. The rant is the reason why, I really don't
>> comment or address, anything at all. Once the wrath of the rant comes
>> down on you, I don't need a second round. I applaud you, and your very
>> sincere thoughts. I'll brace myself, for my chastising by the rant now.
>> Paul E Baver
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Lynda Lambert" <llambert at zoominternet.net>
>> To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Friday, March 30, 2012 8:45 AM
>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Pet PVS- Correcting fellow writers
>>
>>
>>>I have to say just a couple of things here. I am very new to this list.
>>>When I saw there was a Writer's Division I thought how nice that would be
>>>to be in touch with other writers. Since my sight loss four years ago, I
>>>have very little contact with other writers. I was delighted to find this
>>>list. I would suppose most of you are pleased to be here, too.
>>>
>>> I am a member of another Division for the past 2 or 3 years and it is so
>>> enjoyable to be a part of it. The people on the list are so much fun to
>>> talk with every day. They have taught me how to do so many things that I
>>> needed help with because I still have so much to learn about sight loss
>>> and how to do many things. I am so grateful to them all for their help.
>>> In return, I try to help others as well, whenever I can. Recently, I
>>> even taught a couple of classes on that list, and I am scheduled to
>>> teach another one in May after I return from Puerto Rico.
>>> Every person on that list is valuable, and the person who runs that list
>>> is such an inspiration to everyone. That list has been my introduction
>>> to NFB, and it has been a God-send in my life. I even got to go to NFB
>>> headquarters a year ago, and met her in person. What a treasure she is!
>>>
>>> With that positive experience in mind, I joined this Writers Division.
>>> Here, I have met some people that are the same, smart, talented,
>>> helpful, kind, and encouraging. But then, to be honest, I have found
>>> the polar opposite here, as well. It sure has been an unpleasant
>>> surprise.
>>>
>>> There is a word for it in literature. It is called the "rant."
>>> When a person writes an opinion, or a comment, I have come to realize
>>> the Rant will come out loud and clear.
>>>
>>> I read that there are over 100 people on this list. I also read that
>>> only a small portion participate, maybe 15 or so? Don't you wonder why
>>> that is? Who needs or desires to participate in a group when just an
>>> innocent comment brings down thunder and lightening? Is this a one
>>> person operation here? Or, is it a community of writers who have respect
>>> for one another and appreciate the opportunity for exchange? The longer
>>> I view this list the more I see that a bully seems to be runing the show
>>> and if she does not like that person, they are ostracized, through her
>>> rants.
>>>
>>> I see there are some really good qualities on this site. The ones who
>>> take the time to put up a "word" for the day, with definitions is such a
>>> good thing. Others have put up some really nice poems and reflections.
>>> Others offer challenges for writing inspiration. All great things.
>>> Personal stories have been so interesting and given a life to the person
>>> whom we know only by a name on the screen. I am thankful to have met so
>>> many of you here. Everyone is valuable, everyone had something to give,
>>> everyone is worthwhile in my opinion.
>>>
>>> I certainly have not been offended by the folks who have offered
>>> comments on the few things I had put up. One comment really made me go
>>> to the books and figure out something I had not thought about. Others
>>> have given me insight into some other things that I appreciate. Another
>>> member gave one of my poems the best critique I could have imagined and
>>> showed me new insights into my own work. I hope to be as helpful to
>>> others as I can be and I have really enjoyed getting to know some of you
>>> off-list so much. What a great group of folks here. We need everyone -
>>> and wouldn't it be wonderful if more and more of those 100 plus on the
>>> list felt like sharing and communicating, too? I think so.
>>>
>>> Thank you!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Lynda Lambert
>>> 104 River Road
>>> Ellwood City, PA 16117
>>>
>>> 724 758 4979
>>>
>>> My Blog: http://www.walkingbyinnervision.blogspot.com
>>> My Website: http://lyndalambert.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Eve Sanchez" <3rdeyeonly at gmail.com>
>>> To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2012 10:10 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Pet PVS- Correcting fellow writers
>>>
>>>
>>>> Wow Bridgit, Where did I say anything about critiquing or feedback?
>>>> You
>>>> are reading things that were never written and by the way; this is the
>>>> second time you have told me I should not be in this group. Thank you
>>>> ever
>>>> so much. Eve
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Mar 29, 2012 at 4:20 PM, Bridgit Pollpeter
>>>> <bpollpeter at hotmail.com>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Okay, prepare to brand me the B since that's what usually happens, but
>>>>> here we go. And no, I'm not intending for this to become a
>>>>> never-ending
>>>>> thread with no conclusion. I merely throw food out for thought here.
>>>>>
>>>>> Why belong to a community of writers where we share our work from
>>>>> time-to-time if we do not want feedback and constructive criticism?
>>>>> The
>>>>> greatest writers in the world have and do belong to some type of
>>>>> writing
>>>>> community in which they not only share their work but provide feedback
>>>>> and constructive criticism.
>>>>>
>>>>> A loving, warm environment is necessary to this process because no one
>>>>> is superior to anyone. We all have individual styles, voices, formats
>>>>> and processes in which we write. We need to recognize the difference
>>>>> between preference and wrong in terms of content, style and genre. Any
>>>>> feedback should be done with sincerity and a general appreciation for
>>>>> assisting fellow writers.
>>>>>
>>>>> Feedback is crucial however. You don't attack; you don't condescend;
>>>>> you
>>>>> don't take a derogatory tone, but you do provide feedback on what you
>>>>> enjoy and what you think can use work. When it comes to established
>>>>> rules and guidelines, you certainly point these out. Whether they be
>>>>> errors made in carelessness or made from lack of knowledge, it does
>>>>> not
>>>>> matter. Any writer should want a typo of any kind pointed out so it
>>>>> can
>>>>> be fixed. Sure, many of us will eventually find those mistakes, but
>>>>> why
>>>>> not take the assistance when offered? One less thing you have to do.
>>>>>
>>>>> Stephen King does not write a novel then turn it over an have it
>>>>> published. Before he submits it, he has a group of trusted writing
>>>>> friends and editor who pour through a manuscript with him, pointing
>>>>> out
>>>>> the weak spots along with any grammatical and structural errors. Most
>>>>> people are aware that C. S. Lewis and J. R. R. Tolkien were
>>>>> colleagues
>>>>> who belonged to a group of writers who provided feedback for one
>>>>> another. This is why Lewis an Tolkien often seem similar because they
>>>>> gave constructive feedback to each other, often incorporating ideas
>>>>> suggested by the other.
>>>>>
>>>>> There's nothing wrong with giving this feedback to each other, and no
>>>>> one is affecting a superior attitude to do so. If I say your writing
>>>>> is
>>>>> ridiculous and not worth my time, this is wrong and not the type of
>>>>> feedback anyone should provide. If I say, however, I enjoyed this
>>>>> section, but I feel character A does not have enough depth, or I like
>>>>> your use of dialogue, but be careful of where you place punctuation
>>>>> with
>>>>> quotation marks, this is constructive criticism and very beneficial
>>>>> and
>>>>> helpful to any writer. If I make comments such as these, it's not
>>>>> because I think I know everything, or that I'm of a superior intellect
>>>>> than you, or a better writer than you, it's simply because I see
>>>>> potential and want to assist you in bringing out all the best aspects
>>>>> of
>>>>> your writing.
>>>>>
>>>>> In return, I expect similar feedback. Especially in the beginning
>>>>> stages
>>>>> with first drafts, we all need feedback. If I want to do my best work,
>>>>> I
>>>>> need a finger on the pulse of those reading it. Audience feedback is
>>>>> the
>>>>> only true way in which to learn what works and what doesn't in our
>>>>> writing. It's great when you say you enjoy my writing and it's good,
>>>>> but
>>>>> this doesn't tell me much, or help me when revising. In short, it
>>>>> doesn't help make me a better writer; I just fatten up on the praise
>>>>> not
>>>>> always aware of where I need to concentrate my revising and editing
>>>>> efforts. This type of process is not contrary to a warm, loving an
>>>>> generous atmosphere. As the saying goes, a true friend is honest, and
>>>>> I
>>>>> think a similar comment can be said for writers.
>>>>>
>>>>> To say a place like Stylist should only be an outlet in which we sit
>>>>> back and just enjoy each others work is not giving an outlet like
>>>>> Stylist all the possibilities it can be. After material is published,
>>>>> then I want to sit back and enjoy it. Before, whether it be my own
>>>>> work
>>>>> or others, I want to get my hands dirty, ironing and polishing,
>>>>> bringing
>>>>> all the potential to the surface.
>>>>>
>>>>> My essay published in Breath and Shadow's winter issue is a piece that
>>>>> I've worked on for about four years. It has gone through rounds of
>>>>> revision including several workshops, and I had posted sections of it
>>>>> on
>>>>> Stylist to get feedback from those who cared to do so. What is in B
>>>>> and
>>>>> S (ha-ha, just realized the initials here, grin) is something that not
>>>>> only took time, as well as the result of my own creativity and
>>>>> editing,
>>>>> but of the feedback from others. And I will still probably continue to
>>>>> revise it over time.
>>>>>
>>>>> So I think it unfair to us as writers and to the intention of Stylist
>>>>> to
>>>>> say it's wrong or childish or the result of superior attitudes to
>>>>> provide feedback when we post work here. Again, if you don't want
>>>>> feedback from your peers, or can't handle it, a writing community of
>>>>> any
>>>>> kind is not the place for you. And editors, publishers and authors
>>>>> published numerous times are not the only "experts" who can provide
>>>>> constructive feedback. Our writing peers can have just as much
>>>>> knowledge
>>>>> and experience, and as I learned in university, ultimately it's up to
>>>>> your intended audience who often are not writers or have any writing
>>>>> experience/knowledge who determine the success of any writer. So why
>>>>> not
>>>>> take the opportunity to receive feedback from your peers? In fact, I
>>>>> don't see those of us proving such feedback as being superior, but the
>>>>> opposite; if you don't want feedback, it could be interpreted as you
>>>>> thinking yourself too superior to accept feedback from anyone else. As
>>>>> always, it's a matter of perspective.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>> Bridgit Kuenning-Pollpeter
>>>>> Read my blog at:
>>>>> http://blogs.livewellnebraska.com/author/bpollpeter/
>>>>>
>>>>> "History is not what happened; history is what was written down."
>>>>> The Expected One- Kathleen McGowan
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Writers Division web site:
>>>>> http://www.nfb-writers-division.net
>>>>> <http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>>>>>
>>>>> stylist mailing list
>>>>> stylist at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
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>>>>> stylist:
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>>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>> <http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> <http://www.nfb-writers-division.org/>
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>
>
>
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