[stylist] The ponder to take to another level

Fri Feb 8 21:28:46 UTC 2013

It is called dolphin Guide.  

-----Original Message-----
From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Donna Hill
Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2013 3:08 PM
To: 'Writer's Division Mailing List'
Subject: Re: [stylist] The ponder to take to another level

Lynda,
You're right, you would have been pushed to the side, in part because that's
how they handle older blind people. I have a friend in SC who lost her sight
in the past 5 years. Though she was an experienced computer user, they were
going to give her a screen reader that had very marginal abilities. Can't
remember the name., but it's great for older blind people who have never
used a computer and don't really want to. They just want a little something
so they can send e-mails.

When I found out what they wanted to do, I suggested that my understanding
of her computer skills, her interests and such was that she would be more
than capable of using Jaws. She insisted on it, and they taught her Jaws.
She threw herself into it and is now competent on the computer again and is
just finishing the Hadley course on Braille. Her state agency was so
impressed with her and they learned so much from her about the capabilities
and interests of older blind people that they honored her as their student
of the year. 

People do have to stand up for themselves, but that can be rather difficult
for a couple of reasons. You are a professional and accomplished woman, as
is my friend, but blindness hits people at all economic levels. A working
Mom, who has a high school education and a blind child, is both treated
differently and has different expectations of rehab professionals and
teachers. Many people assume the teacher knows best and would never question
their authority by suggesting that their child might need Braille or a white
cane. The teachers, most of whom have extremely limited exposure to both
blind people and Braille, are bringing to the table the prejudices they have
acquired as members of society as well as those of their own teachers.
Blindness is a low incidence disability; there are far more kids with
autism, learning disabilities and hearing problems than blind and VI kids.
For this reason, the time spent in undergrad programs in special ed is spent
mostly on the situations which are most common. Even in graduate school,
teachers who are going for a specialization in blindness and low vision have
only a few months of Braille training. They never learn to use both hands to
read -- most can't read it themselves without looking at it. Many hate it. I
read a comment on a forum for TVIs by a woman who said she actually broke
down and cried when she found out she actually had to teach a child Braille.

Donna

-----Original Message-----
From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Lynda Lambert
Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2013 9:34 AM
To: Writer's Division Mailing List
Subject: Re: [stylist] The ponder to take to another level

Donna, Yes, I agree with you.
I have never known anything about education of blind children - and never
knew there was such a thing as rehabilitation programs for blind people
until I lost my sight. And, even then, no one knew what to do with me.
If I had not been friends with another blind person, I would still be
sitting in my chair listening to books on tape with no way of doing anything
else.I had to fight like heck just to get some help coming to me - and as
you say, it is the very people who are the professionals who are working
with rehab that I had to fight with. I can definitely see how a parent would
have to fight them for help in getting materials for their children.

I met with my VR person this week, and learned that I am the only client
they have ever sent to the Blind and Rehabilitation Services in Homestead,
PA. It is only 1 hour from my home - and it was something I found on my own
and went to see on my own. then, I demanded that they send me there, because
my blind friend told me to do that. If I had not been the person I am, I
would never have had their help.
Lynda

----- Original Message -----
From: "Donna Hill" <penatwork at epix.net>
To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, February 08, 2013 9:51 PM
Subject: Re: [stylist] The ponder to take to another level

> Lynda,
> If you, as a parent, have always thought that blindness is 
> insurmountable; that blind people are to be pitied and taken care of, 
> and that blind people cannot be expected to live normal, productive 
> lives, what do you suppose you'll think when you have a blind child? 
> Some parents do fight, and it is

> a
> fight. Someday, I'll share some of the stories I heard from mothers of 
> blind kids when I did my Braille literacy series for American 
> Chronicle. There is a huge social problem and it forces parents who 
> want their kids to succeed to enter into an adversarial relationship 
> with the people who are supposed to be their child's advocates. You 
> wouldn't believe the things that happen.
> If only the parents want Braille, the school usually denies it until 
> there's a court case. That means that the kid waits years to get 
> instruction. It's criminal in my opinion and creates damage that may 
> never be fixed. Even when Braille is taught, classroom materials in 
> Braille come late if at all.
> Parents have fought this only to have their child graduate before a 
> remedy comes. This is why the NFB stresses so much the idea of having 
> the same books at the same time for the same price. Telling the kids 
> that it doesn't really matter if they read this or that assignment and 
> allowing them to slide through just so the school doesn't have to put 
> out the money for Braille education and materials in alternative 
> formats is despicable and a form of child abuse which slips right past 
> most of the liberal do-gooders who worry so much about that sort of 
> thing.
> Donna
> Donna
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Lynda 
> Lambert
> Sent: Friday, February 08, 2013 7:09 PM
> To: Writer's Division Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [stylist] The ponder to take to another level
>
> What I am not understanding here, in this discussion, is why are the 
> parents of blind children not getting the help they need for their  
> children?
> Don't
> they have access to Braille so they can be learning at a very early 
> age while they are still at home - before they even enter school?
> Why wouldn't the parents seek help and get their children a jump start 
> so they can succeed at school?
> Is it not available?  Just wondering why they would wait so long 
> before getting the help started.
>
> Lynda
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Donna Hill" <penatwork at epix.net>
> To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, February 08, 2013 6:10 PM
> Subject: Re: [stylist] The ponder to take to another level
>
>
>> Bridgit,
>> The other thing is that when a sighted kid has a learning deficit, 
>> they look all over the place to see what the problem is. Is the child 
>> suffering from
>
>> a
>> learning disability? Are there circumstances at home that are holding 
>> the child back? Is the child dealing with a physical or psychological 
>> condition that hasn't been diagnosed?
>>
>> When a blind child falls behind, it's because the child is blind. 
>> They don't look any further than that. If a sighted person can't find 
>> their keys, they're not paying attention, or they just forgot, no big 
>> deal. If I can't find my keys, it's because I can't see them. We 
>> can't have one deficit or problem that can't be explained away by the 
>> fact that we're blind. It burns me up. It would be one thing if it 
>> were just me; after all, that was 50 years ago. But, it persists 
>> today in a state that is little altered despite laws, technology and 
>> the extraordinary achievements of some blind individuals.
>> Donna
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of 
>> Bridgit Pollpeter
>> Sent: Friday, February 08, 2013 4:41 PM
>> To: stylist at nfbnet.org
>> Subject: [stylist] The ponder to take to another level
>>
>> I think this is a travesty that kids aren't learning exactly what 
>> sighted kids are learning. Clumped together, we all learn at 
>> different paces with different methods, and we all have an individual 
>> comprehension level, but at most sighted kids (and there are 
>> exceptions to this) but in general, sighted kids are learning 
>> together at the same time, receiving the same information with the 
>> same material. Blind kids are often not afforded the opportunity to 
>> access said material at the same time or in the same way. Kids who 
>> need Braille but don't receive instruction or proper instruction, are 
>> expected to learn either verbally or via computer, or perhaps both, 
>> but they don't have the opportunity to pick up information in the 
>> same way as their sighted peers. Kids who have some level of vision 
>> are expected to use this vision, and for many it's difficult and 
>> tedious, leading them to develop a learning delay and worse, giving 
>> up. And it's the education system insisting upon this disgrace. 
>> Regardless what people think, this states that blind kids aren't 
>> worth the extra effort, and that they don't qualify for the same 
>> opportunities in life as nondisabled kids. I wrote a paper on this at 
>> university, but it's such a complicated issue that begins to run off 
>> in various directions once you research, but it's a problem that 
>> needs immediate addressing. And of course, education in general needs 
>> major reform and growth.
>>
>> Going back to a comment of Robert's, I heard once of a student who 
>> only read audio material. He was not aware of punctuation and 
>> grammar, and he thought the phrase, "Once upon a time," was a single 
>> word. This just shouldn't be happening.
>>
>> Sincerely,
>> Bridgit Kuenning-Pollpeter, editor, Slate & Style Read my blog at:
>> http://blogs.livewellnebraska.com/author/bpollpeter/
>>
>> "If we discover a desire within us that nothing in this world can 
>> satisfy, we should begin to wonder if perhaps we were created for 
>> another world."
>> C. S. Lewis
>>
>> Message: 12
>> Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2013 08:03:09 -0600
>> From: "Robert Leslie Newman" <newmanrl at cox.net>
>> To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
>> Subject: [stylist] Quote to ponder - taken to another level
>> Message-ID: <03ed01ce0605$070eb2d0$152c1870$@cox.net>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>
>> We were discussing how the impact of what is read is influenced by 
>> the reader, themselves (by what they personally bring to the
reading-table).
>>
>> And here is an interesting thought or outcome that is happening to 
>> too many blind people! First as a baseline thought - the sighted 
>> student/reader who uses print to read literature, educational stuff 
>> and the like - they are reading the words themselves, visually 
>> scanning, actively processing --- while during this process, the 
>> student is being exposed to important "reading related/literacy" 
>> features/elements such
>> as: format, punctuation, spelling, and features like tables, graphs, 
>> pictures, etc. Also, along the same line of literacy, of actively 
>> reading for oneself --- The blind reader who has the skill of Braille 
>> can get the same basic exposure to content, plus all the important 
>> literacy features as
>> - format, punctuation, spelling and the other stuff. However, in 
>> today's world, at least in this country, Braille is not being taught 
>> as a first-line method of reading for the non-print reader! And yeah, 
>> you all have heard this gripe, this warning before.
>> There again my point today is a bit different: My thought, question 
>> is
>> --- hey --- picture this- if you could not read print, did not know 
>> Braille and could only hear new information, be it a textbook, or 
>> poem or piece of prose --- you were not getting exposed to 
>> formatting, punctuation, or spelling of anything you heard; And so I 
>> ask does this then essentially take the blind person back to the 
>> preprint era, back to learning via the oral tradition? Yeah --- what 
>> are these teachers thinking? (Another bazaar thought - what do you 
>> think these teachers who are doing this to the blind would do --- if 
>> they were to find that in school their very own sighted children 
>> would have print taken away and their child was restricted to only 
>> listening to what was being taught??)
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Writers Division web site
>> http://www.writers-division.net/
>> stylist mailing list
>> stylist at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> stylist:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/penatwork%40epix
>> .net
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Writers Division web site
>> http://www.writers-division.net/
>> stylist mailing list
>> stylist at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> stylist:
>>
>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/llambert%40zoominternet
> .net
>>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Writers Division web site
> http://www.writers-division.net/
> stylist mailing list
> stylist at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> stylist:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/penatwork%40epix.
> net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Writers Division web site
> http://www.writers-division.net/
> stylist mailing list
> stylist at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> stylist:
>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/llambert%40zoominternet
.net
> 

_______________________________________________
Writers Division web site
http://www.writers-division.net/
stylist mailing list
stylist at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
stylist:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/penatwork%40epix.net

_______________________________________________
Writers Division web site
http://www.writers-division.net/
stylist mailing list
stylist at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
stylist:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmai
l.com