[stylist] Toot Toot- CLEAR DIRECTIONS for YOU

Mon Jul 1 16:41:52 UTC 2013

That's why we need the Bill of Technology Rights to get moving again. We
always assume it's blindness creating the problem or that the technology
isn't sophisticated enough, but what's really the problem is that few
recognize things can be done in a nonvisual way. If websites and other
technology had to cooperate with companies like Freedom Scientific, less
would be inaccessible for blind people and more would be efficient and
useable by us.

Yes, I would love to have my vision back, but I've learned that with the
right tool and some access to info that's accessible allows me to
function as efficiently, or very close, to how I functioned when
sighted. If we look at blindness itself and give up, then nothing gets
accomplished. But if we change our perspective and acknowledge that much
can be done with a combination of tools, methods and attitudes, it opens
a lot of doors. When I do public speaking engagements, my theme is
usually that what we think if the truth of reality is often just a
perception of reality, meaning it can change.

It's not that screenreaders aren't good enough pieces of technology or
aren't sophisticated enough, it's about perspective. As Donna states, if
a website is constructed in a way making most of it's navigation
incompatible with screenreaders, it looks as though blindness or the
screenreaders are the problem. But time and time again, technology like
this has proved it's possible with some innovation and cooperation by
developers and manufacturers.

Technology is also constantly changing, and blind or sighted, keeping
current means a lot of work, experimentation and cooperation. When
Windows changes, screenreaders need to change to remain current with
those changes. This is one upside to Apple products, which yes, any
Apple product has the voice-over feature out of the box. Since the
voice-over is unique to Apple and only available on their products,
there's no need, on our part, for constant updates and purchasing new
versions of a screenreader once it's no longer as compatible with
current internet functions. I believe Apple has free upgrades for
certain features including updates to its voice-over. The downside to
Apple is that many are familiar with PC operation, which is different
than Apple along with the navigation of an independent screenreader. And
eventually, Apple's own products become obsolete. So for instance,
people with IPhone  2, 3 or 4 are starting to notice it doesn't work as
well as new models. Once a new version of any given Apple product
releases, it often makes accessories and certain upgrades null and void
to older versions.

Nonetheless, if society would listen to us, the experts, and work to
support accessibility, we wouldn't have discussions like this.

Bridgit

-----Original Message-----
From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Donna
Hill
Sent: Monday, July 01, 2013 10:30 AM
To: 'Writer's Division Mailing List'
Subject: Re: [stylist] Toot Toot- CLEAR DIRECTIONS for YOU

That's one of the advantages of having some site. It's a lot easier for
a program to magnify something than to  interact with it and translate
it from a graphic to something audible or that can be rendered in
refreshable Braille. If websites don't properly label their graphics,
links, buttons, etc. there's really nothing Jaws or Window Eyes can do.
Donna

-----Original Message-----
From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Lynda
Lambert
Sent: Monday, July 01, 2013 7:53 AM
To: Writer's Division Mailing List
Subject: Re: [stylist] Toot Toot- CLEAR DIRECTIONS for YOU

I am sure GLAD I chose to get ZoomText back when I was making that
decision in the rehab program! Zoom Text works with everything I have
ever tried to use it for - and it works perfectly with my PC. Lynda
----- Original Message -----
From: "P. Campbell" <pcampbell16 at verizon.net>
To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, July 01, 2013 7:42 AM
Subject: Re: [stylist] Toot Toot- CLEAR DIRECTIONS for YOU

> It doesn't work with Window-Eyes either.
>
> Phyllis
>
> but yet, it works just fine with a MAC - so that is what is a mystery
> to me.
> Seems like it would be a PC problem - but I know next to nothing about

> stuff like this so cannot help at all.
> Lynda
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bridgit Pollpeter" <
> bpollpeter at hotmail.com
>>
> To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'" < stylist at nfbnet.org
>>
> Sent: Sunday, June 30, 2013 9:00 PM
> Subject: Re: [stylist] Toot Toot- CLEAR DIRECTIONS for YOU
>> You can do this only if a graphic link exist. It would appear there's
>> no link or graphic link, therefore JAWS won't work.
>>
>> If anyone else has tried doing this step Lynda posted with JAWS and
>> knows something I'm not aware of, please enlighten us.
>>
>> Bridgit
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ashley
>> Bramlett
>> Sent: Sunday, June 30, 2013 7:55 PM
>> To: Writer's Division Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Toot Toot- CLEAR DIRECTIONS for YOU
>>
>>
>> Hello,
>> FYI, for unlabeled graphic links, you can custom label it. Press
>> insertcontrol tab to do this.
>> But if the link doesn't appear with jaws, noting you can do.
>>
>> Ashley
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Bridgit Pollpeter
>> Sent: Sunday, June 30, 2013 8:45 PM
>> To: 'Writer's Division Mailing List'
>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Toot Toot- CLEAR DIRECTIONS for YOU
>>
>> It's obviously something JAWS isn't programmed to recognize. Since
>> you need to click on the book cover, it's a picture, which JAWS 
>> doesn't recognize, and there's no corresponding link or graphic link 
>> that JAWS will recognize. Clearly the Apple voice-over has been 
>> programmed to recognize some kind of coding that JAWS doesn't. I'm 
>> not familiar with how the Apple voice-over works, but I think it may 
>> be more flexible, to an extent, than JAWS. One of our techy people 
>> may be able to better answer this.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>> Mary-Jo Lord
>> Sent: Sunday, June 30, 2013 5:44 PM
>> To: 'Writer's Division Mailing List'
>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Toot Toot- CLEAR DIRECTIONS for YOU
>>
>>
>> It is something that Jaws isn't seeing or finding, that the Voiceover
>> on the Mac is picking up.
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Lynda
>> Lambert
>> Sent: Sunday, June 30, 2013 3:03 PM
>> To: Writer's Division Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Toot Toot- CLEAR DIRECTIONS for YOU
>>
>> So, I am thinking that the accessibility problem is not amazon, but
>> JAWS that does not allow you to access it on a PC, but does on a MAC?
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Mary-Jo Lord" <
> mjfingerprints at comcast.net
>>
>> To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'" <
> stylist at nfbnet.org
>>
>> Sent: Sunday, June 30, 2013 9:37 AM
>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Toot Toot- CLEAR DIRECTIONS for YOU
>>
>>
>>> Hi Linda,
>>>
>>> I was unable to find this information with Jaws either, but my
>>> sighted
>>
>>> son was. Then just to see what happens, I used the Mac, and was able
>>> to follow your directions and find the information. I guess I'll be 
>>> doing my book browsing with Amazon on my Mac.
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Lynda
>>> Lambert
>>> Sent: Sunday, June 30, 2013 8:00 AM
>>> To: Writer's Division Mailing List
>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Toot Toot- CLEAR DIRECTIONS for YOU
>>>
>>> ahhhhh, so that is the problem. How in the world have you ordered
>>> books without being able to explore what is inside them? I hope JAWS

>>> is accessable on amazon, and that someone on the list can help you 
>>> with it. My directions will work for anyone using Zoom Text - sorry 
>>> I cannot help with JAWS
>> since
>>
>>> I
>>> only use it for reading and writing word documents and for reading
>>> emails.
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Bridgit Pollpeter" <
> bpollpeter at hotmail.com
>>
>>> To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'" <
> stylist at nfbnet.org
>>
>>> Sent: Sunday, June 30, 2013 1:16 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Toot Toot- CLEAR DIRECTIONS for YOU
>>>
>>>
>>>> Lynda,
>>>>
>>>> As I said, I'm pretty well aquainted with searching on Amazon. Part
>>>> of the issue is that you're not using terms JAWS does. For 
>>>> instance, you say, "Near the search bar, designate your search for 
>>>> "books" on the list to the left of the bar." What this means is 
>>>> that there is a combo box you can select the category "Books" to 
>>>> find the anthology, and the edit field is where you type the name 
>>>> of the book. Your directions are based on how it's done visually 
>>>> and not with JAWS. The
>>
>>>> terminology is different with JAWS.
>>>>
>>>> Actually, you can use the H key to navigate the search, and the
>>>> first
>>
>>>> book that pops up is the current BOE anthology. You can press enter
>>>> on this title to open up more details as well as to purchase the 
>>>> book.
>>>>
>>>> Nonetheless, it doesn't appear this accessible with JAWS. I've had
>>>> my
>>
>>>> hubby double check too to make sure I'm not crazy. There's no link,
>>>> button, check box, combo box-- nothing stating what you provide in 
>>>> your directions. If there was in deed a link titled such, when 
>>>> pulling up links list with the insert and F7 keys, it would appear,

>>>> but it does not. Doing a control F to search for anything titled 
>>>> this
>>
>>>> doesn't bring anything up either.
>>>>
>>>> I think part of the problem is that your directions are for anyone
>>>> doing it visually, and it would appear it's not accessible with 
>>>> JAWS to access the options you list.
>>>>
>>>> I'm pretty good with using JAWS and my computer, but my hubby is
>>>> not only extremely well-versed with the tool, he's taught JAWS and 
>>>> once had his certification in the program. So I'm confident he 
>>>> knows what he's talking about. We've both spent time looking the 
>>>> page up and down with no luck. And from what he can tell visually, 
>>>> there doesn't seem to be any links above the picture as you state. 
>>>> He's sees links for an advanced search, new releases and New York 
>>>> Times bestsellers but nothing you list.
>>>>
>>>> When using a mouse, there possibly could be inaccessible menus
>>>> and/or
>>
>>>> dialogue boxes that open up, but JAWS finds nothing you have 
>>>> listed. And like I said, when pulling up the links list after 
>>>> finding the book, there's no links you say should be there.
>>>>
>>>> If any JAWS user has better luck, please let me know.
>>>>
>>>> Bridgit
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>
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