[stylist] Toot Toot- CLEAR DIRECTIONS for YOU

[Donna Hill]

Bridgit,
Amen to that. What I think we need to embrace is the concept that we have
the right to accessible technology. It is as essential to us as wheelchair
ramps and elevators are to people with physical disabilities. The way things
are now, we are beholden to the kindness of strangers for any accessibility
we have and to organizations like the NFB which occasionally file suit.
Neither is a workable alternative in the long-run.

According to Dr. Brian Wentz (Frostburg State U. computer science professor
and published accessibility expert) in his 2011 article in the First Monday
Journal (U of Il, Chicago), a full 80% of the internet is inaccessible. This
is not to say that 80% of the sites are totally inaccessible, but that 80%
of the functionality is inaccessible. His colleague and co-author Dr. Paul
Jaeger, a lawyer and law professor, believes that the laws which govern this
are structured like the "separate but equal" civil rights laws, which were
declared unconstitutional by the Supreme Court decades ago.

Unlike fifty years ago, when it was a time-consuming process to Braille a
book, technology is not the issue today. We have blind radioastronomers,
Diesel mechanics and chemists, for Heaven's sake, and they do what they do
successfully because of technology. The main problem is that website
designers are not legally bound to make their sites accessible, nor are they
subject to the review/permit process that architects must go through to
ensure the physical accessibility of buildings. 

Even the Federal government sites, which are required by law to make their
sites accessible, often don't. A few years ago, a government study claimed
that most of their sites weren't fully accessible. President Clinton issued
an executive order that every federal agency present their plans for fixing
this within 90 days. 90 days came and went with most departments not
complying. With no teeth in the executive order, the matter was dropped
again, according to an access technology expert and federal employee named
Robert Johnson, whom I interviewed 2 years ago. If memory serves, he said
that President Obama issued a similar executive order with the same results.

When several of us at the Performing Arts Division tried to get the indie
music site CDBaby to reinstitute the accessibility they had always had until
the site was sold and "improved," we were told that it wasn't possible
because they were using Adobe Flash. One of the problems was that the
Preview buttons, which allow people to hear clips of certain songs, were no
longer  accessible to screen readers. When Wes Mageris, who used to work for
NFB's Access Technology Center, explained that this was not true, CDBaby
came back saying that they misspoke, and it was really the Java that they
were using that made it impossible to fix. Wes said that was a crock also.
CDBaby promised to fix the problem after the holidays. Well, over a year
later, they had a "Java script link" above any song that had the ability to
be previewed. Nowhere did it tell screen reader users what they were
supposed to be looking for. We spread the word as best as we could, but who
could blame anyone for not clicking on something that said "java script
link?" I personally thought it was a link to go learn something about using
Java on your own site. I haven't been back there, though they still sell my
third CD. 

I really believe that this will simply continue until we demand an end to
this sort of segregation. With only 5% of books and magazines available in
accessible formats and only 20% of the internet, it's a wonder any of us
have full-time jobs. The same problems exist with regard to home appliances,
office equipment, etc. and it results in fewer choices and less independence
for blind people. I personally don't believe the public has accepted the
equality of blind citizens, and most of us are so tickled with what we can
do nowadays, that we aren't really all that angry about it.
Donna

-----Original Message-----
From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Bridgit
Pollpeter
Sent: Monday, July 01, 2013 12:42 PM
To: 'Writer's Division Mailing List'
Subject: Re: [stylist] Toot Toot- CLEAR DIRECTIONS for YOU

That's why we need the Bill of Technology Rights to get moving again. We
always assume it's blindness creating the problem or that the technology
isn't sophisticated enough, but what's really the problem is that few
recognize things can be done in a nonvisual way. If websites and other
technology had to cooperate with companies like Freedom Scientific, less
would be inaccessible for blind people and more would be efficient and
useable by us.

Yes, I would love to have my vision back, but I've learned that with the
right tool and some access to info that's accessible allows me to function
as efficiently, or very close, to how I functioned when sighted. If we look
at blindness itself and give up, then nothing gets accomplished. But if we
change our perspective and acknowledge that much can be done with a
combination of tools, methods and attitudes, it opens a lot of doors. When I
do public speaking engagements, my theme is usually that what we think if
the truth of reality is often just a perception of reality, meaning it can
change.

It's not that screenreaders aren't good enough pieces of technology or
aren't sophisticated enough, it's about perspective. As Donna states, if a
website is constructed in a way making most of it's navigation incompatible
with screenreaders, it looks as though blindness or the screenreaders are
the problem. But time and time again, technology like this has proved it's
possible with some innovation and cooperation by developers and
manufacturers.

Technology is also constantly changing, and blind or sighted, keeping
current means a lot of work, experimentation and cooperation. When Windows
changes, screenreaders need to change to remain current with those changes.
This is one upside to Apple products, which yes, any Apple product has the
voice-over feature out of the box. Since the voice-over is unique to Apple
and only available on their products, there's no need, on our part, for
constant updates and purchasing new versions of a screenreader once it's no
longer as compatible with current internet functions. I believe Apple has
free upgrades for certain features including updates to its voice-over. The
downside to Apple is that many are familiar with PC operation, which is
different than Apple along with the navigation of an independent
screenreader. And eventually, Apple's own products become obsolete. So for
instance, people with IPhone  2, 3 or 4 are starting to notice it doesn't
work as well as new models. Once a new version of any given Apple product
releases, it often makes accessories and certain upgrades null and void to
older versions.

Nonetheless, if society would listen to us, the experts, and work to support
accessibility, we wouldn't have discussions like this.

Bridgit

-----Original Message-----
From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Donna Hill
Sent: Monday, July 01, 2013 10:30 AM
To: 'Writer's Division Mailing List'
Subject: Re: [stylist] Toot Toot- CLEAR DIRECTIONS for YOU


That's one of the advantages of having some site. It's a lot easier for a
program to magnify something than to  interact with it and translate it from
a graphic to something audible or that can be rendered in refreshable
Braille. If websites don't properly label their graphics, links, buttons,
etc. there's really nothing Jaws or Window Eyes can do.
Donna

-----Original Message-----
From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Lynda Lambert
Sent: Monday, July 01, 2013 7:53 AM
To: Writer's Division Mailing List
Subject: Re: [stylist] Toot Toot- CLEAR DIRECTIONS for YOU

I am sure GLAD I chose to get ZoomText back when I was making that decision
in the rehab program! Zoom Text works with everything I have ever tried to
use it for - and it works perfectly with my PC. Lynda
----- Original Message -----
From: "P. Campbell" <pcampbell16 at verizon.net>
To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, July 01, 2013 7:42 AM
Subject: Re: [stylist] Toot Toot- CLEAR DIRECTIONS for YOU


> It doesn't work with Window-Eyes either.
>
> Phyllis
>
> but yet, it works just fine with a MAC - so that is what is a mystery 
> to me.
> Seems like it would be a PC problem - but I know next to nothing about

> stuff like this so cannot help at all.
> Lynda
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bridgit Pollpeter" <
> bpollpeter at hotmail.com
>>
> To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'" < stylist at nfbnet.org
>>
> Sent: Sunday, June 30, 2013 9:00 PM
> Subject: Re: [stylist] Toot Toot- CLEAR DIRECTIONS for YOU
>> You can do this only if a graphic link exist. It would appear there's 
>> no link or graphic link, therefore JAWS won't work.
>>
>> If anyone else has tried doing this step Lynda posted with JAWS and 
>> knows something I'm not aware of, please enlighten us.
>>
>> Bridgit
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ashley 
>> Bramlett
>> Sent: Sunday, June 30, 2013 7:55 PM
>> To: Writer's Division Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Toot Toot- CLEAR DIRECTIONS for YOU
>>
>>
>> Hello,
>> FYI, for unlabeled graphic links, you can custom label it. Press 
>> insertcontrol tab to do this.
>> But if the link doesn't appear with jaws, noting you can do.
>>
>> Ashley
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Bridgit Pollpeter
>> Sent: Sunday, June 30, 2013 8:45 PM
>> To: 'Writer's Division Mailing List'
>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Toot Toot- CLEAR DIRECTIONS for YOU
>>
>> It's obviously something JAWS isn't programmed to recognize. Since 
>> you need to click on the book cover, it's a picture, which JAWS 
>> doesn't recognize, and there's no corresponding link or graphic link 
>> that JAWS will recognize. Clearly the Apple voice-over has been 
>> programmed to recognize some kind of coding that JAWS doesn't. I'm 
>> not familiar with how the Apple voice-over works, but I think it may 
>> be more flexible, to an extent, than JAWS. One of our techy people 
>> may be able to better answer this.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of 
>> Mary-Jo Lord
>> Sent: Sunday, June 30, 2013 5:44 PM
>> To: 'Writer's Division Mailing List'
>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Toot Toot- CLEAR DIRECTIONS for YOU
>>
>>
>> It is something that Jaws isn't seeing or finding, that the Voiceover 
>> on the Mac is picking up.
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Lynda 
>> Lambert
>> Sent: Sunday, June 30, 2013 3:03 PM
>> To: Writer's Division Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Toot Toot- CLEAR DIRECTIONS for YOU
>>
>> So, I am thinking that the accessibility problem is not amazon, but 
>> JAWS that does not allow you to access it on a PC, but does on a MAC?
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Mary-Jo Lord" <
> mjfingerprints at comcast.net
>>
>> To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'" <
> stylist at nfbnet.org
>>
>> Sent: Sunday, June 30, 2013 9:37 AM
>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Toot Toot- CLEAR DIRECTIONS for YOU
>>
>>
>>> Hi Linda,
>>>
>>> I was unable to find this information with Jaws either, but my 
>>> sighted
>>
>>> son was. Then just to see what happens, I used the Mac, and was able 
>>> to follow your directions and find the information. I guess I'll be 
>>> doing my book browsing with Amazon on my Mac.
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Lynda 
>>> Lambert
>>> Sent: Sunday, June 30, 2013 8:00 AM
>>> To: Writer's Division Mailing List
>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Toot Toot- CLEAR DIRECTIONS for YOU
>>>
>>> ahhhhh, so that is the problem. How in the world have you ordered 
>>> books without being able to explore what is inside them? I hope JAWS

>>> is accessable on amazon, and that someone on the list can help you 
>>> with it. My directions will work for anyone using Zoom Text - sorry 
>>> I cannot help with JAWS
>> since
>>
>>> I
>>> only use it for reading and writing word documents and for reading 
>>> emails.
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Bridgit Pollpeter" <
> bpollpeter at hotmail.com
>>
>>> To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'" <
> stylist at nfbnet.org
>>
>>> Sent: Sunday, June 30, 2013 1:16 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Toot Toot- CLEAR DIRECTIONS for YOU
>>>
>>>
>>>> Lynda,
>>>>
>>>> As I said, I'm pretty well aquainted with searching on Amazon. Part 
>>>> of the issue is that you're not using terms JAWS does. For 
>>>> instance, you say, "Near the search bar, designate your search for 
>>>> "books" on the list to the left of the bar." What this means is 
>>>> that there is a combo box you can select the category "Books" to 
>>>> find the anthology, and the edit field is where you type the name 
>>>> of the book. Your directions are based on how it's done visually 
>>>> and not with JAWS. The
>>
>>>> terminology is different with JAWS.
>>>>
>>>> Actually, you can use the H key to navigate the search, and the 
>>>> first
>>
>>>> book that pops up is the current BOE anthology. You can press enter 
>>>> on this title to open up more details as well as to purchase the 
>>>> book.
>>>>
>>>> Nonetheless, it doesn't appear this accessible with JAWS. I've had 
>>>> my
>>
>>>> hubby double check too to make sure I'm not crazy. There's no link, 
>>>> button, check box, combo box-- nothing stating what you provide in 
>>>> your directions. If there was in deed a link titled such, when 
>>>> pulling up links list with the insert and F7 keys, it would appear,

>>>> but it does not. Doing a control F to search for anything titled 
>>>> this
>>
>>>> doesn't bring anything up either.
>>>>
>>>> I think part of the problem is that your directions are for anyone 
>>>> doing it visually, and it would appear it's not accessible with 
>>>> JAWS to access the options you list.
>>>>
>>>> I'm pretty good with using JAWS and my computer, but my hubby is 
>>>> not only extremely well-versed with the tool, he's taught JAWS and 
>>>> once had his certification in the program. So I'm confident he 
>>>> knows what he's talking about. We've both spent time looking the 
>>>> page up and down with no luck. And from what he can tell visually, 
>>>> there doesn't seem to be any links above the picture as you state.
>>>> He's sees links for an advanced search, new releases and New York 
>>>> Times bestsellers but nothing you list.
>>>>
>>>> When using a mouse, there possibly could be inaccessible menus 
>>>> and/or
>>
>>>> dialogue boxes that open up, but JAWS finds nothing you have 
>>>> listed. And like I said, when pulling up the links list after 
>>>> finding the book, there's no links you say should be there.
>>>>
>>>> If any JAWS user has better luck, please let me know.
>>>>
>>>> Bridgit
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Writers Division web site
>>>>
> http://www.writers-division.net/
>>>> stylist mailing list
>>>>
> stylist at nfbnet.org
>>>>
> http://host.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>> for
>>>> stylist:
>>>>
>>>
>>
> http://host.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/llambert%40z
> oo
>> mint
>>> ernet.net
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Writers Division web site
>>>
> http://www.writers-division.net/
>>> stylist mailing list
>>>
> stylist at nfbnet.org
>>>
> http://host.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>> for
>>> stylist:
>>>
>>
> http://host.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/mjfingerprin
> ts
>> %40c
>>> omcast.net
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Writers Division web site
>>>
> http://www.writers-division.net/
>>> stylist mailing list
>>>
> stylist at nfbnet.org
>>>
> http://host.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>> for
>>> stylist:
>>>
>>
> http://host.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/llambert%40z
> oo
>> mint
>> ernet.net
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Writers Division web site
>>
> http://www.writers-division.net/
>> stylist mailing list
>>
> stylist at nfbnet.org
>>
> http://host.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> stylist:
>>
> http://host.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/mjfingerprin
> ts
>> %40c
>> omcast.net
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Writers Division web site
>>
> http://www.writers-division.net/
>> stylist mailing list
>>
> stylist at nfbnet.org
>>
> http://host.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> stylist:
>>
> http://host.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/bpollpeter%4
> 0h
>> otmail.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Writers Division web site
>>
> http://www.writers-division.net/
>> stylist mailing list
>>
> stylist at nfbnet.org
>>
> http://host.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> stylist:
>>
> http://host.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%
> 40
>> earthlink.net
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Writers Division web site
>>
> http://www.writers-division.net/
>> stylist mailing list
>>
> stylist at nfbnet.org
>>
> http://host.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> stylist:
>>
> http://host.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/bpollpeter%4
> 0h
>> otmail.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Writers Division web site
>>
> http://www.writers-division.net/
>> stylist mailing list
>>
> stylist at nfbnet.org
>>
> http://host.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> stylist:
>>
> http://host.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/llambert%40z
> oominternet.net
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Writers Division web site
> http://www.writers-division.net/
> stylist mailing list
> stylist at nfbnet.org
> http://host.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> stylist: 
> http://host.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/pcampbell16%
> 40verizon.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Writers Division web site
> http://www.writers-division.net/
> stylist mailing list
> stylist at nfbnet.org
> http://host.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> stylist: 
> http://host.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/llambert%40z
> oominternet.net
> 



_______________________________________________
Writers Division web site
http://www.writers-division.net/
stylist mailing list
stylist at nfbnet.org
http://host.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
stylist:
http://host.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/penatwork%40ep
ix.n
et


_______________________________________________
Writers Division web site
http://www.writers-division.net/
stylist mailing list
stylist at nfbnet.org
http://host.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
stylist:
http://host.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/bpollpeter%40h
otmail.com


_______________________________________________
Writers Division web site
http://www.writers-division.net/
stylist mailing list
stylist at nfbnet.org
http://host.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/stylist_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
stylist:
http://host.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/stylist_nfbnet.org/penatwork%40epix.n
et