[stylist] Answers to Vejas Questions (Off Topic)
justin williams
justin.williams2 at gmail.com
Thu Feb 6 18:12:36 UTC 2014
I've found the offering people driving you to church usually results in all
but offending them; as if god is watching. I've never had a lot of money
anyway, so may times if I had to help with gas I wouldn't have gone to
church, or to the group gathering. However, I have found that picking up
the dinner tab every how and again, or some such strategically placed money
drop is effective. I've usually not had toe monty to be really helpful.
-----Original Message-----
From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Cheryl Orgas
& William Meeker
Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2014 1:05 PM
To: 'Writer's Division Mailing List'
Subject: Re: [stylist] Answers to Vejas Questions (Off Topic)
Dear Vejas,
You ask if we think that people expecting money for gasoline when they give
you a ride is reasonable. You also say that you think that a true friend or
charitable person shouldn't want money. They should just do it out of the
goodness of their hearts. Your questions are important because they speak
to the essentials of human relationships. So I want to answer your
questions by telling you a little of what I've learned about the dynamics of
relationships over the years.
First, relationships are based upon a series of interactions, or
transactions between two or more people. And in order to interact, people
must want, or be motivated to do so.
Second, relationships come in different depths and complexity of
interactions. A relationship between you and a taxi driver is am
uncomplicated money motivated one. A relationship between you and a member
of your church who is giving you a lift is more complex in that it may be
motivated by the desire to do a good act for a fellow church member, a
desire to get to know you better during the ride, a hope that you'll
supplement her income by offering a little cash, or maybe something else.
On your side, you determine the degree and depth that you want to interact
with another person. You may want from a taxi driver nothing more than
expeditious transportation to your destination, courteous treatment, and a
reasonable fare. You may want something more than transportation from a
member of your church, such as meaningful conversation, a friendship, or
something else.
Third, any relationship deeper and longer lasting than a simple financial
transaction requires varying degrees of equality and satisfaction between
those involved in it. A friendship requires personal disclosures, interest
in the friend, the willingness to listen attentively, and not least
important, a feeling that you are satisfied with what you receive from the
friend in relation to what you give. Such giving includes both intangible
and tangible things. The things you give in a relationship will help define
how you are perceived by the other person(s) and in turn, the relationship's
depth and longevity. In my experience, relationships in which one person
continues giving more than he receives does not last.
My deciding whether or not to offer gas money is more important than whether
a driver's Expecting gas money in exchange for a ride is reasonable. It
depends on what I want the relationship to be and how I want to be
perceived. When I was younger, whether or not I offered gas money sometimes
depended on my ability to pay. I also found it helpful to clarify an
unfamiliar driver's desires by offering money.
An example. I ride to the symphony with a friend and his wife. I like this
man and want to nurture our friendship. So I pay for parking. He accepts.
He doesn't need the money. He earns more in retirement than I do. He also
understands that the tangible $10 is also an intangible demonstration that I
consider myself an equal to him and that I want to contribute to the
friendship.
Another example. A friend and I often go shopping. He will not accept gas
money. He likes good wine. So occasionally I send him wine and liquor
reviews and every so often buy him a bottle of wine. It's a tangible way
that I contribute equally to the friendship.
People offering a ride as a charitable act may happen from time to time.
But repeated acts of charity result in the recipient being perceived as an
object of charity. And in my experience, the power differential that
results almost always prevents one from being perceived as an equal and from
any deeper relationship developing. So what you want a relationship to
become and how you want to be perceived will determine when, and how
forcefully you will offer money for rides.
I had to learn this stuff through failures over a period of years. I got
better with thought and practice. You will too.
Sometimes knowing something about a person helps one to feel more
comfortable with what he says. I am 65 years old and retired from the
Federal Department of Labor. I live in a small suburb bordering Milwaukee.
My wife works and my son is in Utah embarking on a wildland firefighting
career. And my wife and I are both blind. I hope what I've said gives you
some useful background when you have to decide about when to offer money for
rides.
Bill Meeker
-----Original Message-----
From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Vejas
Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2014 9:52 AM
To: Writer's Division Mailing List
Subject: Re: [stylist]
Here'smyattemptatbeingtactiletothefolkswhowanteverything for nothing
That's so sad about your sister.
I'm curious about everyone's opinions on the following. My parents told me
that when I grow older and live away from them, I can ride with someone and
help them with their gas.
So I have 2 questions. First, if someone insists that you shouldn't pay
them, should you pay them anyway, or just leave it?
Second, do you think that people expecting money is considered reasonable?
This is just my opinion, but I think that a true friend or charitable person
shouldn't want money. They should just do it out of the goodness of their
hearts. (But I volunteer at my church, so what do I know.) I know there's
not one answer, but I'd like to know your differing opinions on these two
things.
Vejas
----- Original Message -----
From: Bridgit Pollpeter <bpollpeter at hotmail.com
To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'" <stylist at nfbnet.org Date sent: Wed, 5
Feb 2014 04:51:52 -0600
Subject: Re: [stylist]
Here'smyattemptatbeingtactiletothefolkswhowanteverything for nothing
Donna,
Generally I wouldn't shy away from a confrontation like that, but without
going into the long, sordid history, it's better to leave such things alone
in my family. I learned my lesson a while ago that saying something gets me
nowhere. In my family, we can't rationally, logically discuss things,
instead we have to go at one another like fighting dogs, going for the
jugular each time. Doesn't matter the topic, situation, person. It's sad
but the reality. I mean, a few years ago, my sister raked me across the
coals online because I differed with her about the weather. This was
literally what set her off. She said a storm was coming, and I said I'm
currently watching the news and it says no storm, and I was turned into the
Wicked Witch of the West, and I'm downplaying what happened. And as for the
gas guzzler, as it were, this particular person would never question why I
do something, but they do take advantage when they can. And I am referring
to someone in my immediate family. I could go on and on but it's not really
my way. I already am feeling a bit vulnerable for sharing this much, but
clearing the air doesn't do much in my family. Usually, especially when it
comes to me, I'm crazy, the bad guy and all manner of horrible things my
family has to put up with. So seething about gas money is actually the
least stressful option in this circumstance, but rest assured that I don't
use this person much for rides, and when I do, I try to have cash on hand.
Bridgit
-----Original Message-----
From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Applebutter
Hill
Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2014 3:16 PM
To: 'Writer's Division Mailing List'
Subject: Re: [stylist] Here's
myattemptatbeingtactiletothefolkswhowanteverything for nothing
Bridgit,
Ugh! Sounds like you have a real predator in your family. I'd give them
cash; never give your debit card to anyone! It's a recipe for disaster in
any case and should be avoided as a matter of habit.
If you use the same driver again and they question why you didn't give them
the debit card, tell them you don't do that anymore or that you stopped
using debit cards in light of the Target credit breach.
I'd have
to say something about the fact that when you and Ross tallied up your
accounts for the month you noticed that on the days they gave you rides,
more money was deducted from your account than you had agreed to pay them.
That's me though; I understand that family dynamics are very difficult and
differ greatly one family to another. Donna
-----Original Message-----
From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Bridgit
Pollpeter
Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2014 3:18 AM
To: 'Writer's Division Mailing List'
Subject: Re: [stylist] Here's my
attemptatbeingtactiletothefolkswhowanteverything for nothing
Really? I always here people say drivers don't want to take their money, but
the few people Ross and I use for rides always want some kind of
compensation. I have no problem with this and always at least offer gas
money, but we've had some experiences.
A family member who use to frequently give me rides was taking more gas
money than was being offered. I would hand over my debit card, tell them
how much to take, and they would even give me the receipt. When Ross would
go through transactions, he would notice large amounts of money used at the
gas station we usually stopped at. At first, we thought it was an accident,
but after the second time, we figured they were taking advantage of the
situation. I mean, we are talking about at the most, going the distance of
1-1/2 miles, and I would offer like $10 or
12 in
gas, but they were taking $20 and a couple of times more. I started
carrying cash to use when this person gave me rides, so they couldn't take
more than I offered. We should have said something, but with my family,
it's very awkward to broach these subjects, especially when the involve
money.
Another crazy story, same family member. When Declan was in the NICU, Ross
and I were spending as much time at hospital as we could.
Often
Ross couldn't get up there until after work, so we stayed late.
We used
cabs a lot since it was so late, but to cut down on cost, we did ask some
people every now and then for a ride. One night, I decided to stay over
night with Declan, so said family member picked Ross up.
Ross
offered gas, but they said not to worry about it. Literally a week later, I
had a voicemail from family member asking if they could get that gas money
now. An entire week after the ride was given and gas offered at that point.
In my opinion, an offer for something like gas must be accepted when it's
offered. I'm not here to fill your tank when you need it. If you choose to
not take me up on the offer when it's made, then you forfeit that gas money.
But maybe I'm the crazy one.
I've yet to have non-family members do anything so crazy. In fact, the
whole six weeks Declan was in the NICU, the only person we had reliable
transportation from was a friend. He even offered to get us in the middle
of the night if necessary, and he was, and still is, the only person to
refuse our money.
So needless to say, if we had problems finding rides to get up to hospital
to visit our newborn, you can imagine what it's like finding rides for
shopping or doctor visits or activities.
And I know I'm only 32, but I've lerned to never say never. I've changed a
lot even since my mid and late 20's. Most for the good, but I don't think
22 year-old Bridgit would totally recognize 32-year-old Bridgit.
I've learned a lot, grown a lot and made a lot of discoveries along the way.
One of the big ones being that I'm worth a lot more as a person than I use
to think, and that I can have a voice and share opinions and express my
thoughts, and oh yeah, your husband doesn't lose interest in you just
because you don't wear make-up and sexy clothes every day, grin. And you
can also do certain bodily functions that all humans do and still have
you're your partner be maddly in love with you, LOL!
Bridgit
-----Original Message-----
From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Applebutter
Hill
Sent: Monday, February 03, 2014 2:20 PM
To: 'Writer's Division Mailing List'
Subject: Re: [stylist] Here's my attempt
atbeingtactiletothefolkswhowanteverything for nothing
After our experience with neighbors and friends around here being so willing
to drive us places, I think I could (or already have
really)
built up such a network that I wouldn't have to rely on one person for
everything. Often, I can get a ride with someone going to town anyway and
if I'm not coming back at the same time they are, there's someone else who
can pick me up on their way home from work. For jobs though, I'd have to
insist that they take some payment. They've been impossible about that;
they don't even want gas money
-- we managed to sneak a couple of $20s into one of those little
compartments in the center console of the gal who did so much for us.
I have a hard time with thinking about moving from here. I'm a real
home-body, and with the pond and the gingerbread-style pond shelter that
Rich built, well, I don't think it would be easy. On the other hand,
everyone's getting Lyme disease and it's virtually impossible to really
prevent it. I never say never though, because I know that there are things
I swore I'd never do at certain points of my life, and then I ended up
changing my mind -- like cancer treatments for instance.
Donna
-----Original
Message-----
From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Bridgit
Pollpeter
Sent: Sunday, February 02, 2014 1:13 AM
To: 'Writer's Division Mailing List'
Subject: Re: [stylist] Here's my attempt at
beingtactiletothefolkswhowanteverything for nothing
Seriously though, you don't need a live-in chauffeur or full-time driver,
but you could advertise for a driver and establish what days and times you
may call upon a person to drive and settle upon a payment that's reasonable
to both parties. You could even have a couple of drivers at your disposal.
Say Mike can drive every Tuesday if necessary and Carol can drive every
other Saturday between 10 am and 2 pm.
Then
you can make arrangements around those days and times. I mean, it's a
possible option.
Bridgit
-----Original Message-----
From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Applebutter
Hill
Sent: Saturday, February 01, 2014 5:19 PM
To: 'Writer's Division Mailing List'
Subject: Re: [stylist] Here's my attempt at being
tactiletothefolkswhowanteverything for nothing
Lynda,
Yes, the full-time driver could live with the rest of the castle
staff.*grin*
Donna
-----Original Message-----
From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Lynda Lambert
Sent: Saturday, February 01, 2014 6:08 PM
To: Writer's Division Mailing List
Subject: Re: [stylist] Here's my attempt at being tactile
tothefolkswhowanteverything for nothing
This would be my situation, too, living on the opposite side of PA. The
only cab here would be about an hours drive from where we live.
So, it
isn't possible at all. I guess one solution would be to have a full time
driver, and keep him in a carriage house on the property - at my beck and
call. haha just kidding about that. Lynda
----- Original Message -----
From: "Applebutter Hill" <applebutterhill at gmail.com
To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'" <stylist at nfbnet.org
Sent: Saturday, February 01, 2014 3:18 PM
Subject: Re: [stylist] Here's my attempt at being tactile to
thefolkswhowanteverything for nothing
Bridgit,
While a cab is definitely an option in many cases, it is not for us. A
cab from here in the sticks to Wilkes-Barre would be well over
$100
each way, and there is only one cab in Tunkhannock, our closest real town,
which is a half hour away -- it doesn't operate after 6p.m..
I tried responding to several folks who wrote in about my response a week
ago, but the messages sat in my Out Box and never got sent.
Hoping I have better luck with this. *grin* Donna
-----Original Message-----
From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Bridgit
Pollpeter
Sent: Saturday, January 25, 2014 1:43 PM
To: 'Writer's Division Mailing List'
Subject: Re: [stylist] Here's my attempt at being tactile to
thefolkswhowant everything for nothing
If the university is willing to pay, a cab is an option, and this way no
person has to take a day or afternoon to drive. Just throwing out options.
A
bus may be another option, though a bus certainly isn't the most convenient
option.
Bridgit
-----Original Message-----
From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Lynda
Lambert
Sent: Saturday, January 25, 2014 7:38 AM
To: Writer's Division Mailing List
Subject: Re: [stylist] Here's my attempt at being tactile to the
folkswhowant everything for nothing
Yes, this is very important. People just do not realize at all that it
takes something more than just getting in our car and leaving home so that
we can be somewhere. Not only is it our time, it is someone else's time.
When I go to the pottery studio to work, it is an hour long dive each way.
Then, I am there 3-4 hours working. That is a six hour day for TWO people,
plus all the expenses involved that April listed. Not only is it very
inconvenient for the person who is taking
us places, it is expensive, too. This is our reality and one that a
sighted person would never even think about for a
second.
Lynda
----- Original Message -----
From: "April Brown" <aprilbrownshade at gmail.com
To: <stylist at nfbnet.org
Sent: Saturday, January 25, 2014 6:53 AM
Subject: Re: [stylist] Here's my attempt at being tactile to the folks
whowant everything for nothing
Hi Donna,
I think it's great. I'd emphasize one line though.
"I have to get someone else to drive." Emphasize that you have to pay
them out of pocket for time, gas, and wear and tear on the car.
Congrats!
April Brown
Writing dramatic adventure novels uncovering the myths we hide behind.
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