[stylist] FW: Robert, please post to list; having problems with list e-mail: Answer to Vejas's questions
Robert Leslie Newman
newmanrl at cox.net
Sun Feb 9 21:16:57 UTC 2014
From: Donna W. Hill [mailto:dwhill at epix.net]
Sent: Sunday, February 09, 2014 3:08 PM
To: NFB, Stylist & Nebraska, Robert Newman,
Subject: Robert, please post to list; having problems with list e-mail:
Answer to Vejas's questions
Vejas,
I had to grapple with the first question this summer when neighbors helped
so much with things when Rich was ill. They wouldn't take anything for
things like:
1. Driving me multiple times to a hospital that is over 2 hours away (I
stayed with Rich for many reasons, but putting them in a position that they
felt they had to take me back and forth was definitely on, though not on top
of the list)
2. Mowing our property 3 times: that's several acres of mowing, and it's not
flat.
3. Grocery shopping
4. Picking us up at the ER at 4 in the morning, when the ER doc didn't want
to admit Rich and we didn't have our car, and the medical service
recommended by the hospital wanted $500+ for a half hour ride.
I tried to pay them, to at least give them gas money, but they wouldn't hear
of it. There were occasions when people said they were going to the store,
did I need anything, and picked up a few things for me. They wouldn't let me
pay for that either. That's when I started saying things like, "If you won't
let me pay you, what happens next time I need help? I won't feel comfortable
asking." Two different people from different families said, "Well, OK, next
time you can pay." And, the next time, I paid.
The truth of the matter is that there are people (my hubby being one of
them) who will do anything they can that needs doing for someone in a
crisis. They don't want money; they want to live in a community where people
help one another and they want to be one of those people.
Now, instead of money, we have shown our appreciation to them in small ways
like giving them something we know they'd like and making sure it's not on
any holiday or birthday.
If you need a ride to work, however, that is essential, but not the same
kind of crisis -- though it can feel that way. I think we need to offer to
pay, and if they don't accept it, find sneaky ways of showing our
appreciation.
As for your second question about whether people expecting payment is
reasonable ... It's absolutely reasonable, just make sure what they expect
is a reasonable fee not some bloated thing like Bridgit experienced. As has
been pointed out, there are expenses involved in travel whether you use
public transportation or have a car. Even if you walk, there's the
shoe-leather *grin* Even if your driver lives next-door and is going
virtually to the same place as you, they are still providing you a service
that you would have to pay for otherwise and that probably wouldn't be as
convenient. Part of being independent is paying your own way and recognizing
the value of people who make things easier for you than they might otherwise
be.
Not everyone has had a background that would lead them to naturally do
things for others without being compensated. If a person hasn't received the
benefits of community, they aren't going to extend a hand in the same way as
happens in an organic situation -- where you grow up having parents who
enjoy doing things for others and allow you to learn that through early
experiences.
Some people are very concerned about every penny they spend; sometimes
because they have problems of their own, and sometimes not. Some people are
just cheap; we have a free concert series out here in the country, and one
of our neighbors, who is rather wealthy, never puts a dime in the donations
basket and is quite verbal about not doing it. He doesn't even bring food to
share. The hope of the community is that people like that will gradually
soften and begin to understand the value of the generosity shown to him by
people who are often far less fortunate. Still, it's not anyone's place to
call anyone out about not donating to a free concert series.
So, for me, I expect to pay, offer to pay, don't allow people to buy me
anything without repayment more than once and show my gratitude to those
wonderful people who have helped us without ever once making me feel like
they believed I couldn't have found another alternative. What we went
through has changed me; I never experienced community like this, and my
gratitude will last as long as I do.
On the other side of the coin, if the person makes you feel bad, like they
pity you or like they believe being blind makes it impossible for you to do
stuff, I think it's important to find another way.
Donna
-----Original Message-----
From: stylist [ <mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org>
mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Vejas
Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2014 10:52 AM
To: Writer's Division Mailing List
Subject: Re:
[stylist]Here'smyattemptatbeingtactiletothefolkswhowanteverything for
nothing
That's so sad about your sister.
I'm curious about everyone's opinions on the following. My parents told me
that when I grow older and live away from them, I can ride with someone and
help them with their gas.
So I have 2 questions. First, if someone insists that you shouldn't pay
them, should you pay them anyway, or just leave it?
Second, do you think that people expecting money is considered reasonable?
This is just my opinion, but I think that a true friend or charitable person
shouldn't want money. They should just do it out of the goodness of their
hearts. (But I volunteer at my church, so what do I know.) I know there's
not one answer, but I'd like to know your differing opinions on these two
things.
Vejas
----- Original Message -----
From: Bridgit Pollpeter <bpollpeter at hotmail.com
To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'" <stylist at nfbnet.org Date sent: Wed, 5
Feb 2014 04:51:52 -0600
Subject: Re: [stylist]
Here'smyattemptatbeingtactiletothefolkswhowanteverything for nothing
Donna,
Generally I wouldn't shy away from a confrontation like that, but without
going into the long, sordid history, it's better to leave such things alone
in my family. I learned my lesson a while ago that saying something gets me
nowhere. In my family, we can't rationally, logically discuss things,
instead we have to go at one another like fighting dogs, going for the
jugular each time. Doesn't matter the topic, situation, person. It's sad but
the reality. I mean, a few years ago, my sister raked me across the coals
online because I differed with her about the weather. This was literally
what set her off. She said a storm was coming, and I said I'm currently
watching the news and it says no storm, and I was turned into the Wicked
Witch of the West, and I'm downplaying what happened. And as for the gas
guzzler, as it were, this particular person would never question why I do
something, but they do take advantage when they can. And I am referring to
someone in my immediate family. I could go on and on but it's not really my
way. I already am feeling a bit vulnerable for sharing this much, but
clearing the air doesn't do much in my family. Usually, especially when it
comes to me, I'm crazy, the bad guy and all manner of horrible things my
family has to put up with. So seething about gas money is actually the least
stressful option in this circumstance, but rest assured that I don't use
this person much for rides, and when I do, I try to have cash on hand.
Bridgit
-----Original Message-----
From: stylist [ <mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org>
mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Applebutter Hill
Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2014 3:16 PM
To: 'Writer's Division Mailing List'
Subject: Re: [stylist] Here's
myattemptatbeingtactiletothefolkswhowanteverything for nothing
Bridgit,
Ugh! Sounds like you have a real predator in your family. I'd give them
cash; never give your debit card to anyone! It's a recipe for disaster in
any case and should be avoided as a matter of habit.
If you use the same driver again and they question why you didn't give them
the debit card, tell them you don't do that anymore or that you stopped
using debit cards in light of the Target credit breach.
I'd have
to say something about the fact that when you and Ross tallied up your
accounts for the month you noticed that on the days they gave you rides,
more money was deducted from your account than you had agreed to pay them.
That's me though; I understand that family dynamics are very difficult and
differ greatly one family to another. Donna
-----Original Message-----
From: stylist [ <mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org>
mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Bridgit Pollpeter
Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2014 3:18 AM
To: 'Writer's Division Mailing List'
Subject: Re: [stylist] Here's my
attemptatbeingtactiletothefolkswhowanteverything for nothing
Really? I always here people say drivers don't want to take their money, but
the few people Ross and I use for rides always want some kind of
compensation. I have no problem with this and always at least offer gas
money, but we've had some experiences.
A family member who use to frequently give me rides was taking more gas
money than was being offered. I would hand over my debit card, tell them how
much to take, and they would even give me the receipt. When Ross would go
through transactions, he would notice large amounts of money used at the gas
station we usually stopped at. At first, we thought it was an accident, but
after the second time, we figured they were taking advantage of the
situation. I mean, we are talking about at the most, going the distance of
1-1/2 miles, and I would offer like $10 or
12 in
gas, but they were taking $20 and a couple of times more. I started carrying
cash to use when this person gave me rides, so they couldn't take more than
I offered. We should have said something, but with my family, it's very
awkward to broach these subjects, especially when the involve money.
Another crazy story, same family member. When Declan was in the NICU, Ross
and I were spending as much time at hospital as we could.
Often
Ross couldn't get up there until after work, so we stayed late.
We used
cabs a lot since it was so late, but to cut down on cost, we did ask some
people every now and then for a ride. One night, I decided to stay over
night with Declan, so said family member picked Ross up.
Ross
offered gas, but they said not to worry about it. Literally a week later, I
had a voicemail from family member asking if they could get that gas money
now. An entire week after the ride was given and gas offered at that point.
In my opinion, an offer for something like gas must be accepted when it's
offered. I'm not here to fill your tank when you need it. If you choose to
not take me up on the offer when it's made, then you forfeit that gas money.
But maybe I'm the crazy one.
I've yet to have non-family members do anything so crazy. In fact, the whole
six weeks Declan was in the NICU, the only person we had reliable
transportation from was a friend. He even offered to get us in the middle of
the night if necessary, and he was, and still is, the only person to refuse
our money.
So needless to say, if we had problems finding rides to get up to hospital
to visit our newborn, you can imagine what it's like finding rides for
shopping or doctor visits or activities.
And I know I'm only 32, but I've lerned to never say never. I've changed a
lot even since my mid and late 20's. Most for the good, but I don't think 22
year-old Bridgit would totally recognize 32-year-old Bridgit.
I've learned a lot, grown a lot and made a lot of discoveries along the way.
One of the big ones being that I'm worth a lot more as a person than I use
to think, and that I can have a voice and share opinions and express my
thoughts, and oh yeah, your husband doesn't lose interest in you just
because you don't wear make-up and sexy clothes every day, grin. And you can
also do certain bodily functions that all humans do and still have you're
your partner be maddly in love with you, LOL!
Bridgit
-----Original Message-----
From: stylist [ <mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org>
mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Applebutter Hill
Sent: Monday, February 03, 2014 2:20 PM
To: 'Writer's Division Mailing List'
Subject: Re: [stylist] Here's my attempt
atbeingtactiletothefolkswhowanteverything for nothing
After our experience with neighbors and friends around here being so willing
to drive us places, I think I could (or already have
really)
built up such a network that I wouldn't have to rely on one person for
everything. Often, I can get a ride with someone going to town anyway and if
I'm not coming back at the same time they are, there's someone else who can
pick me up on their way home from work. For jobs though, I'd have to insist
that they take some payment. They've been impossible about that; they don't
even want gas money
-- we managed to sneak a couple of $20s into one of those little
compartments in the center console of the gal who did so much for us.
I have a hard time with thinking about moving from here. I'm a real
home-body, and with the pond and the gingerbread-style pond shelter that
Rich built, well, I don't think it would be easy. On the other hand,
everyone's getting Lyme disease and it's virtually impossible to really
prevent it. I never say never though, because I know that there are things I
swore I'd never do at certain points of my life, and then I ended up
changing my mind -- like cancer treatments for instance.
Donna
-----Original
Message-----
From: stylist [ <mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org>
mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Bridgit Pollpeter
Sent: Sunday, February 02, 2014 1:13 AM
To: 'Writer's Division Mailing List'
Subject: Re: [stylist] Here's my attempt at
beingtactiletothefolkswhowanteverything for nothing
Seriously though, you don't need a live-in chauffeur or full-time driver,
but you could advertise for a driver and establish what days and times you
may call upon a person to drive and settle upon a payment that's reasonable
to both parties. You could even have a couple of drivers at your disposal.
Say Mike can drive every Tuesday if necessary and Carol can drive every
other Saturday between 10 am and 2 pm.
Then
you can make arrangements around those days and times. I mean, it's a
possible option.
Bridgit
-----Original Message-----
From: stylist [ <mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org>
mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Applebutter Hill
Sent: Saturday, February 01, 2014 5:19 PM
To: 'Writer's Division Mailing List'
Subject: Re: [stylist] Here's my attempt at being
tactiletothefolkswhowanteverything for nothing
Lynda,
Yes, the full-time driver could live with the rest of the castle
staff.*grin*
Donna
-----Original Message-----
From: stylist [ <mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org>
mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Lynda Lambert
Sent: Saturday, February 01, 2014 6:08 PM
To: Writer's Division Mailing List
Subject: Re: [stylist] Here's my attempt at being tactile
tothefolkswhowanteverything for nothing
This would be my situation, too, living on the opposite side of PA. The only
cab here would be about an hours drive from where we live.
So, it
isn't possible at all. I guess one solution would be to have a full time
driver, and keep him in a carriage house on the property - at my beck and
call. haha just kidding about that. Lynda
----- Original Message -----
From: "Applebutter Hill" <applebutterhill at gmail.com
To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'" <stylist at nfbnet.org
Sent: Saturday, February 01, 2014 3:18 PM
Subject: Re: [stylist] Here's my attempt at being tactile to
thefolkswhowanteverything for nothing
Bridgit,
While a cab is definitely an option in many cases, it is not for us. A
cab from here in the sticks to Wilkes-Barre would be well over $100 each
way, and there is only one cab in Tunkhannock, our closest real town, which
is a half hour away -- it doesn't operate after 6p.m..
I tried responding to several folks who wrote in about my response a week
ago, but the messages sat in my Out Box and never got sent.
Hoping I have better luck with this. *grin* Donna
-----Original Message-----
From: stylist [ <mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org>
mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Bridgit
Pollpeter
Sent: Saturday, January 25, 2014 1:43 PM
To: 'Writer's Division Mailing List'
Subject: Re: [stylist] Here's my attempt at being tactile to thefolkswhowant
everything for nothing
If the university is willing to pay, a cab is an option, and this way no
person has to take a day or afternoon to drive. Just throwing out options.
A
bus may be another option, though a bus certainly isn't the most convenient
option.
Bridgit
-----Original Message-----
From: stylist [ <mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org>
mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Lynda Lambert
Sent: Saturday, January 25, 2014 7:38 AM
To: Writer's Division Mailing List
Subject: Re: [stylist] Here's my attempt at being tactile to the
folkswhowant everything for nothing
Yes, this is very important. People just do not realize at all
that it
takes something more than just getting in our car and leaving
home so
that we can be somewhere. Not only is it our time, it is
someone
else's time. When I go to the pottery studio to work, it is an
hour
long dive each way. Then, I am there 3-4 hours working. That
is a six
hour day for TWO people, plus all the expenses involved that
April
listed. Not only is it very inconvenient for the person who is
taking
us places, it is expensive, too. This is our reality and one
that a
sighted person would never even think about for a
second.
Lynda
----- Original Message -----
From: "April Brown" <aprilbrownshade at gmail.com
To: <stylist at nfbnet.org
Sent: Saturday, January 25, 2014 6:53 AM
Subject: Re: [stylist] Here's my attempt at being tactile to the
folks
whowant everything for nothing
Hi Donna,
I think it's great. I'd emphasize one line though.
"I have to get someone else to drive." Emphasize that you have
to
pay them out of pocket for time, gas, and wear and tear on the
car.
Congrats!
April Brown
Writing dramatic adventure novels uncovering the myths we hide
behind.
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