[stylist] dividing blind people into groups

Sat Mar 15 01:25:05 UTC 2014

Are they plastic bins? Do they come with lids? Can I pick my favorite color?
*grin*
Donna

-----Original Message-----
From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Atty Rose
Sent: Friday, March 14, 2014 3:29 PM
To: Writer's Division Mailing List
Subject: Re: [stylist] dividing blind people into groups

Put us into bins, I loved that visual!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jacobson, Shawn D" <Shawn.D.Jacobson at hud.gov>
To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, March 14, 2014 2:13 PM
Subject: Re: [stylist] dividing blind people into groups

> What I remember from the braille school was that there was a pecking order

> by how much you could see.  The high partials were generally on top with
> the totally blind on the bottom.  When we had mobility training there were

> the totally blind (Rams) and the partially sighted (Ramblers) and they
> were in different classes for our mobility milers contest.
>
> And then there were the religious differences (mostly Catholic or
> Protestant or Jewish).
>
> Point being, sighted folk will put us into bins according to their own
> tastes.
>
> Shawn
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Atty Rose
> Sent: Friday, March 14, 2014 2:46 PM
> To: Writer's Division Mailing List
> Subject: [stylist] dividing blind people into groups
>
> I really don't think I can add anything to Donna's remarks, she said it so

> well. I just want to say that there is power in numbers. I am one of those

> who write letters and call my senators and congress-people.  Sometimes
> when we feel isolated we can feel like we're the only ones, but there is a

> whole vast group of visually impaired people. And even though we don't
> always
> agree   with one another, we don't have to to stand by one another.
>
> Perhaps we have issues with the NFB, but here we are on their list talking

> to people who care about what we say.
>
> And if they sent out a notice to call our reps, I'd be dialing away.
>
> Change takes time and Scheril is right about fighting for it. Sometimes we

> have to take a rest from the battle. I'm resting right now on the NFB
> rights thing. I am fortunate to belong to a blind group that doesn't care
> what you see, what your philosaphies are or your life preferences and so I

> feel content doing all I can for them.
>
> The time will come for us to gather a group and approach the upper
> eshilons of the NFB and speak up again. Maybe we're down but never out.
>
> Life is one long adventure!
> Atty
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bridgit Pollpeter" <bpollpeter at hotmail.com>
> To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2014 11:14 PM
> Subject: Re: [stylist] Thea, New Kid
>
>
>> Very eloquently said.
>>
>> Bridgit
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>> Applebutter Hill
>> Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2014 11:31 AM
>> To: 'Writer's Division Mailing List'
>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Thea, New Kid
>>
>>
>> Thea,
>> I understand your perspective, but I disagree with dividing us up into
>> sub-groups. All of the examples you gave are still viewed as blind by
>> the general public. Even more importantly, we are already the smallest
>> minority; we are what is referred to as a "low-incidence disability.
>> Because of this and the geographic separation, we are already in a
>> position of not posing much of a threat to the public. We aren't out
>> there protesting regularly, sitting in or even (though I don't recommend
>> this ) throwing rocks. When the calls come for us to write letters to
>> our elected officials, sign petitions and the like, a very small
>> percentage of us actually take action (even if you limit it to the NFB
>> membership). I know for certain that the subset that is willing to take
>> the time out of their busy days to sign a petition, put notices on
>> social media, call Congress, etc. is a diversified group that includes
>> every category you mention. Dividing ourselves is suicide.
>>
>> Also, we are essentially expendable, easily overlooked and our issues
>> are at the bottom of the pecking order when it comes to social change.
>>
>> The goal is to live in a world where blindness is no more of a barrier
>> than blonde hair. But, I don't think there are many blind activists who
>> believe that a person can transition from fully sighted to blind without
>> a significant input of work, dedication and perseverance. There is also
>> the shock value of those kind of proclamations, which is how everyone
>> else does it. And, the fact that we are discriminated against and that
>> the world isn't opening its arms to welcome us doesn't diminish the
>> truth that, given the proper training and a can-do attitude, blind
>> people can and do flourish despite the barriers imposed by a foolish
>> public. Donna
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Miss Thea
>> Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2014 2:48 AM
>> To: Writer's Division Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Thea, New Kid
>>
>> How the blue blazes can a non-disabled person test for anything
>> regarding the blind, or any other disability? What are people smoking
>> these days? Would you, as a blind person, offer to test for a deaf-user
>> product? Of course you wouldn't. Some people blame certain things on the
>> militant blind, saying they're the ones who made it difficult for the
>> rest of us. If blindness is no more than a nuisance, or a characteristic
>> like blond hair, well then, it follows. People with blond hair don't use
>> different technology, so if blindness is truly a mere characteristic
>> like blond hair, as I've heard at the only NFB convention I ever went
>> to, then why should it change? We don't need anything. We're rough,
>> tough, independent blind people. Right?
>>
>> I've always considered blindness a major disability. The day it becomes
>> a mere nuisance or a characteristic like blond hair will be the day when
>> I can get any job, use any computer, drive a car, read any type of print
>> including hand writing, and so forth. Till that day, and especially with
>> websites going backwards instead of forwards, I'm afraid I disagree with
>> our more militant friends. I'm not a rough, tough, young independent
>> blind person. I'm on the sunny side of 50, have illnesses and conditions
>> not related to blindness, and frankly, I'm having trouble keeping up
>> with all the changes. I'm doing my best, but the last Windows I liked
>> was Windows XP. Not only do I remember text-based DOS and the text
>> adventure games I so much enjoyed, (as an adult in her late twenties), I
>> remember when there were no such things as computers. I remember when
>> the most exciting thing I experienced was the Optacon and the talking
>> calculator. I remember the Braille I read in the 70's, and have no idea
>> why they need to unify the whole darn Braille code.
>>
>> Gays and lesbians for instance, gained the right to marry and put their
>> spouse under their health insurance at work, and be the next of kin when
>> an emergency happened, and now have many rights they didn't when I was
>> growing up, because they fought for the same things, and they fought in
>> force. One of the complaints I've heard is that the blind community is
>> too busy fighting among themselves and spending their energies whining,
>> etc. The problem with blindness is that it's a continuum, not just one
>> condition. Let's say Al's totally blind, never so much as seen light,
>> while Tyler sees light and shadows and therefore probably has better
>> mobility. Tessa can see enough to read large print, while Bill can do
>> everything but drive. That's all lumped under the general category of
>> blindness. Oh, then there's blind-plus. I.E. Lucy's deaf-blind,
>> Samantha's partially blind and partially deaf, and Tiny Tim there, not
>> only uses a wheelchair but is stone cold blind. How does one community
>> address all these needs? Why should the guy who can do everything but
>> drive care about the guy who's never so much as seen light? These men
>> perceive the world totally differently, and their needs are different. I
>> think lumping everyone into the "blindness" community may be filling a
>> small boat with more people than it can handle. I propose the idea that
>> there is a blind community, a partially sighted community, and a
>> blind-plus community. The blind community would comprise totals and
>> those who have so little vision, it's not useful to them. Anyway, if we
>> could sort ourselves out, decide what we need, and go after it in force,
>> we could end up getting what we want, couldn't we? Sure, there are more
>> LGBT people than there are blind people, but I'm sure the LGBT community
>> had to work out differences, too. Bisexuals had different needs than
>> transgenders, etc. Anyway, that's my story, and I'm sticking to it. Thea
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Bridgit Pollpeter
>> Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2014 12:15 AM
>> To: 'Writer's Division Mailing List'
>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Thea, New Kid
>>
>> Donna,
>>
>> I never thought of this but you're absolutely correct. Buildings legally
>> must have so many accessible entrances and bathrooms, but when it comes
>> to blind accessibility, it's often lacking. Why are legal standards
>> expected for one disability but not another? Websites and technology
>> should have to adhere to certain standards, and yes, actual blind users
>> should be the testers. I get so tired of non-disabled people doing the
>> work, not thinking they need people with a given disability to test,
>> comment and assist.
>>
>> Bridgit
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>> Applebutter Hill
>> Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2014 4:19 PM
>> To: 'Writer's Division Mailing List'
>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Thea, New Kid
>>
>>
>> Jim,
>> I know what you mean. Getting the most out of our screen readers is a
>> lot of hard work, because every site is different. It can be
>> exceptionally frustrating to spend hours trying to get something done
>> that we know a sighted person can do in ten minutes. Nevertheless, it is
>> what it is, and it's possible to get a lot further than many screen
>> reader users get. I get aggravated when blind people ask me to provide
>> them with a web address, when they can Google it in the same amount of
>> time as I can. It feels sometimes like they don't realize that I had to
>> go through the same grueling and aggravating process they are trying to
>> avoid to get the knowledge I have and that I have to continue struggling
>> every day despite the stress of it, because it's the only way I can get
>> anywhere.
>>
>> On the other hand, people who want to build a hospital want their
>> building to be accessible to everyone too, and they don't know how to do
>> it either. The difference is that the architects of brick and mortor
>> facilities have to meet standards which are scrutinized by licensing
>> officials prior to one brick being laid. Website designers, whose jobs
>> involve putting 1s and0s in the right places, are on their own. They
>> either don't consider accessibility or they hire someone to test the
>> accessibility who is not a user of the adaptive software on a regular
>> basis. It's difficult to force yourself to not notice things if you can
>> see them, and difficult to be conscious of when your sight has
>> influenced something you do with the screen reader. IMO, websites should
>> be tested for accessibility by blind people and some of them should have
>> average screen reader skills.
>>
>> Also, there are other accessibility issues in addition to screen
>> readers. Sites need to work for people using magnification and voice
>> recognition as well. Donna
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Homme,
>> James
>> Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2014 8:16 AM
>> To: Writer's Division Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Thea, New Kid
>>
>> Hi,
>> I do accessibility work a lot. In my experience, most people want to
>> make their stuff accessible. They just don't know what accessibility is,
>> or how it affects people with disabilities. Most people assume,
>> naturally enough, that whoever wants to can simply just use their stuff.
>> And one of my pet peeves is when someone who should know how to use
>> their screen reader better complains that something is inaccessible,
>> because they don't want to take the time to use the help available to
>> them. We make ourselves look bad when this happens.
>>
>> Sorry. I'm a little cranky today. I need to do my journaling.
>>
>> Jim
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Miss Thea
>> Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2014 2:43 PM
>> To: Writer's Division Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Thea, New Kid
>>
>> Think I'll document my experiences with Triond on my new blog, then
>> spread it on Social Media like butter on bread. Hahahaha. Thea
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Atty Rose
>> Sent: Monday, March 10, 2014 11:33 AM
>> To: Writer's Division Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Thea, New Kid
>>
>> Hi Thea,
>>
>> Welcome. I get so frustrated when this happens. If writing letters isn't
>> working and there is no phone, all you can do really put a claim against
>> them, or have all your blind friends write them too. I always write a
>> letter if I run into issues. Even if nothing happens I stand up for our
>> comunity. Sometimes it works great! Sometimes I get nothing back.
>>
>> All you can do is your best!
>>
>> Well met,
>> Atty
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Miss Thea" <thearamsay at rogers.com>
>> To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Monday, March 10, 2014 3:45 AM
>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Thea, New Kid
>>
>>
>>> Hi, Donna.
>>> There is a place where you can upload photos, but it is still
>>> inaccessible, as you have to drag and drop images.
>>>
>>> All I want is my name in print--a hardcover or paperback with my John
>>> Hancock and a great story inside, that people can get lost in. I don't
>>
>>> mind doing the work; I don't mind doing hard work. But I DO mind
>>> wasting my time, and there's not even a way for me to express my
>>> displeasure by cancelling my account. I guess I could just let it go,
>>> and concentrate on the things I can do, which is why I'm here. Nice to
>>
>>> meet you, too. Thea
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Applebutter Hill
>>> Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2014 8:11 PM
>>> To: 'Writer's Division Mailing List'
>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Thea, New Kid
>>>
>>> Hi Thea,
>>> Welcome to Stylist. I wrote for a bunch of online magazines for years,
>>
>>> but not this one. I'm thinking of a couple of things.
>>>
>>> First, what would a person do if they had their own photos? Is there
>>> an uploader? It seems bogus that they would force people to pick and
>>> choose from stock photos and not have an option to upload photos of
>>> their
>> own.
>>>
>>> I'm saying this, because, if there is an uploader that you can use,
>>> there are sites where you can get free, high quality photos that you
>>> could download and then upload to this site. The captions are usually
>>> clear enough to get the idea what the photo is, and as long as you
>>> credit the photographer or the group, you can use them without fear.
>>>
>>> As far as your efforts to bring this to the attention of the site go,
>>> it is something we need to do, but it rarely results in positive
>>> changes. I used to write for Suite 101, which had revenue sharing and
>>> required a photo with each article. It was accessible until they re
>>> designed their site. I wrote to them many times, and I was assured
>>> that accessibility was a priority for them. They even asked me to do
>>> beta testing on the new site, which I did. Nothing ever changed.
>>> Ultimately they dropped their journalistic standards, such as they
>>> were, and at that point, I really wasn't interested in writing for
>>> them anyway.
>>>
>>> Suite 101 is a Canadian company, so they don't fall under our laws.
>>> But, the laws we have in the US are not being enforced even on
>>> government websites. The irony to me was that when Suite 101 started
>>> becoming less accessible, I was in the midst of writing a series of
>>> articles on web accessibility.
>>>
>>> Anyway, it's nice to meet you, and I look forward to getting to know
>>> you. Donna
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Miss
>>> Thea
>>> Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2014 5:36 PM
>>> To: stylist at nfbnet.org
>>> Subject: [stylist] Thea, New Kid
>>>
>>> Hi, everyone.
>>> I'm Thea, I just joined the list, and I write all kinds of stuff:
>>> fiction, nonfiction, and fan fiction. I guess that about covers it,
>>> eh? I used to publish articles and short stories on www.triond.com but
>>
>>> they require an image with each submission. I had sighted help for a
>>> while, but once the sighted help disappeared, I found I could not use
>>> this site because of its image requirement. It's not a Captcha I have
>>> to fill in. This site requires, along with the article, your selection
>>
>>> of a category, which you can choose from a combo
>>> box: health, news, politics, women ... Then after the body of your
>>> article, you add tags. Let's say you've chosen "women". Your tags
>>> could be birth control, birth control devices, IUD, etc. Then there's
>>> a question mark where a chosen image should go. You hit the "get image
>>
>>> suggestions" button, and images are supposed to present themselves.
>>> At this time, you have to be able to see the image and drag it to the
>>> question mark.
>>> Last but not least, you have to check the box that says you are the
>>> original creator of this work, and click submit.
>>> Piece o' cake ... if you can see.
>>> Has anyone ever tried or found some way around this difficulty?
>>> The site is www.triond.com
>>> My emails to them about this barrier have netted me no response.
>>> The site is free, and supposedly, you can create a following, if
>>> you're prolific enough, and you can earn money, be it ever so small.
>>> I don't mind that. I DO mind this inaccessibility, and the company's
>>> apparent lack of interest.
>>> Anyone ever tried this www.triond.com
>>> While I had sighted help, I published articles and stories, so I have
>>> a small portfolio if you like.
>>> Now the sighted help is gone, and I'm stuck.
>>> Any help appreciated,
>>> Thea
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>
>>
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