[stylist] dividing blind people into groups

Sat Mar 15 10:09:39 UTC 2014

I do not want to be in a plastic bin! Hmmmm, what are my options? Make my 
bin out of soft fiber, in fact, I can knit my own bin. I'll do it in 
luscious yarns of orange, yellow, and pinks.  Yes, I'll felt it to give it 
stability and I'll make a nice lid for it. Oh, certainly, I'll do encrusted 
beadworking all over it. It has to be a bin that is glitzy and sparkly, soft 
and warm, and smart looking. Nice to the touch! Yes, a succulent bin will be 
just perfect! One with no labels on it at all.

Lynda
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Applebutter Hill" <applebutterhill at gmail.com>
To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, March 14, 2014 9:25 PM
Subject: Re: [stylist] dividing blind people into groups

> Are they plastic bins? Do they come with lids? Can I pick my favorite 
> color?
> *grin*
> Donna
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Atty Rose
> Sent: Friday, March 14, 2014 3:29 PM
> To: Writer's Division Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [stylist] dividing blind people into groups
>
> Put us into bins, I loved that visual!
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jacobson, Shawn D" <Shawn.D.Jacobson at hud.gov>
> To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, March 14, 2014 2:13 PM
> Subject: Re: [stylist] dividing blind people into groups
>
>
>> What I remember from the braille school was that there was a pecking 
>> order
>
>> by how much you could see.  The high partials were generally on top with
>> the totally blind on the bottom.  When we had mobility training there 
>> were
>
>> the totally blind (Rams) and the partially sighted (Ramblers) and they
>> were in different classes for our mobility milers contest.
>>
>> And then there were the religious differences (mostly Catholic or
>> Protestant or Jewish).
>>
>> Point being, sighted folk will put us into bins according to their own
>> tastes.
>>
>> Shawn
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Atty Rose
>> Sent: Friday, March 14, 2014 2:46 PM
>> To: Writer's Division Mailing List
>> Subject: [stylist] dividing blind people into groups
>>
>> I really don't think I can add anything to Donna's remarks, she said it 
>> so
>
>> well. I just want to say that there is power in numbers. I am one of 
>> those
>
>> who write letters and call my senators and congress-people.  Sometimes
>> when we feel isolated we can feel like we're the only ones, but there is 
>> a
>
>> whole vast group of visually impaired people. And even though we don't
>> always
>> agree   with one another, we don't have to to stand by one another.
>>
>> Perhaps we have issues with the NFB, but here we are on their list 
>> talking
>
>> to people who care about what we say.
>>
>> And if they sent out a notice to call our reps, I'd be dialing away.
>>
>> Change takes time and Scheril is right about fighting for it. Sometimes 
>> we
>
>> have to take a rest from the battle. I'm resting right now on the NFB
>> rights thing. I am fortunate to belong to a blind group that doesn't care
>> what you see, what your philosaphies are or your life preferences and so 
>> I
>
>> feel content doing all I can for them.
>>
>> The time will come for us to gather a group and approach the upper
>> eshilons of the NFB and speak up again. Maybe we're down but never out.
>>
>> Life is one long adventure!
>> Atty
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Bridgit Pollpeter" <bpollpeter at hotmail.com>
>> To: "'Writer's Division Mailing List'" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2014 11:14 PM
>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Thea, New Kid
>>
>>
>>> Very eloquently said.
>>>
>>> Bridgit
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>>> Applebutter Hill
>>> Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2014 11:31 AM
>>> To: 'Writer's Division Mailing List'
>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Thea, New Kid
>>>
>>>
>>> Thea,
>>> I understand your perspective, but I disagree with dividing us up into
>>> sub-groups. All of the examples you gave are still viewed as blind by
>>> the general public. Even more importantly, we are already the smallest
>>> minority; we are what is referred to as a "low-incidence disability.
>>> Because of this and the geographic separation, we are already in a
>>> position of not posing much of a threat to the public. We aren't out
>>> there protesting regularly, sitting in or even (though I don't recommend
>>> this ) throwing rocks. When the calls come for us to write letters to
>>> our elected officials, sign petitions and the like, a very small
>>> percentage of us actually take action (even if you limit it to the NFB
>>> membership). I know for certain that the subset that is willing to take
>>> the time out of their busy days to sign a petition, put notices on
>>> social media, call Congress, etc. is a diversified group that includes
>>> every category you mention. Dividing ourselves is suicide.
>>>
>>> Also, we are essentially expendable, easily overlooked and our issues
>>> are at the bottom of the pecking order when it comes to social change.
>>>
>>> The goal is to live in a world where blindness is no more of a barrier
>>> than blonde hair. But, I don't think there are many blind activists who
>>> believe that a person can transition from fully sighted to blind without
>>> a significant input of work, dedication and perseverance. There is also
>>> the shock value of those kind of proclamations, which is how everyone
>>> else does it. And, the fact that we are discriminated against and that
>>> the world isn't opening its arms to welcome us doesn't diminish the
>>> truth that, given the proper training and a can-do attitude, blind
>>> people can and do flourish despite the barriers imposed by a foolish
>>> public. Donna
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Miss Thea
>>> Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2014 2:48 AM
>>> To: Writer's Division Mailing List
>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Thea, New Kid
>>>
>>> How the blue blazes can a non-disabled person test for anything
>>> regarding the blind, or any other disability? What are people smoking
>>> these days? Would you, as a blind person, offer to test for a deaf-user
>>> product? Of course you wouldn't. Some people blame certain things on the
>>> militant blind, saying they're the ones who made it difficult for the
>>> rest of us. If blindness is no more than a nuisance, or a characteristic
>>> like blond hair, well then, it follows. People with blond hair don't use
>>> different technology, so if blindness is truly a mere characteristic
>>> like blond hair, as I've heard at the only NFB convention I ever went
>>> to, then why should it change? We don't need anything. We're rough,
>>> tough, independent blind people. Right?
>>>
>>> I've always considered blindness a major disability. The day it becomes
>>> a mere nuisance or a characteristic like blond hair will be the day when
>>> I can get any job, use any computer, drive a car, read any type of print
>>> including hand writing, and so forth. Till that day, and especially with
>>> websites going backwards instead of forwards, I'm afraid I disagree with
>>> our more militant friends. I'm not a rough, tough, young independent
>>> blind person. I'm on the sunny side of 50, have illnesses and conditions
>>> not related to blindness, and frankly, I'm having trouble keeping up
>>> with all the changes. I'm doing my best, but the last Windows I liked
>>> was Windows XP. Not only do I remember text-based DOS and the text
>>> adventure games I so much enjoyed, (as an adult in her late twenties), I
>>> remember when there were no such things as computers. I remember when
>>> the most exciting thing I experienced was the Optacon and the talking
>>> calculator. I remember the Braille I read in the 70's, and have no idea
>>> why they need to unify the whole darn Braille code.
>>>
>>> Gays and lesbians for instance, gained the right to marry and put their
>>> spouse under their health insurance at work, and be the next of kin when
>>> an emergency happened, and now have many rights they didn't when I was
>>> growing up, because they fought for the same things, and they fought in
>>> force. One of the complaints I've heard is that the blind community is
>>> too busy fighting among themselves and spending their energies whining,
>>> etc. The problem with blindness is that it's a continuum, not just one
>>> condition. Let's say Al's totally blind, never so much as seen light,
>>> while Tyler sees light and shadows and therefore probably has better
>>> mobility. Tessa can see enough to read large print, while Bill can do
>>> everything but drive. That's all lumped under the general category of
>>> blindness. Oh, then there's blind-plus. I.E. Lucy's deaf-blind,
>>> Samantha's partially blind and partially deaf, and Tiny Tim there, not
>>> only uses a wheelchair but is stone cold blind. How does one community
>>> address all these needs? Why should the guy who can do everything but
>>> drive care about the guy who's never so much as seen light? These men
>>> perceive the world totally differently, and their needs are different. I
>>> think lumping everyone into the "blindness" community may be filling a
>>> small boat with more people than it can handle. I propose the idea that
>>> there is a blind community, a partially sighted community, and a
>>> blind-plus community. The blind community would comprise totals and
>>> those who have so little vision, it's not useful to them. Anyway, if we
>>> could sort ourselves out, decide what we need, and go after it in force,
>>> we could end up getting what we want, couldn't we? Sure, there are more
>>> LGBT people than there are blind people, but I'm sure the LGBT community
>>> had to work out differences, too. Bisexuals had different needs than
>>> transgenders, etc. Anyway, that's my story, and I'm sticking to it. Thea
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Bridgit Pollpeter
>>> Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2014 12:15 AM
>>> To: 'Writer's Division Mailing List'
>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Thea, New Kid
>>>
>>> Donna,
>>>
>>> I never thought of this but you're absolutely correct. Buildings legally
>>> must have so many accessible entrances and bathrooms, but when it comes
>>> to blind accessibility, it's often lacking. Why are legal standards
>>> expected for one disability but not another? Websites and technology
>>> should have to adhere to certain standards, and yes, actual blind users
>>> should be the testers. I get so tired of non-disabled people doing the
>>> work, not thinking they need people with a given disability to test,
>>> comment and assist.
>>>
>>> Bridgit
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>>> Applebutter Hill
>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2014 4:19 PM
>>> To: 'Writer's Division Mailing List'
>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Thea, New Kid
>>>
>>>
>>> Jim,
>>> I know what you mean. Getting the most out of our screen readers is a
>>> lot of hard work, because every site is different. It can be
>>> exceptionally frustrating to spend hours trying to get something done
>>> that we know a sighted person can do in ten minutes. Nevertheless, it is
>>> what it is, and it's possible to get a lot further than many screen
>>> reader users get. I get aggravated when blind people ask me to provide
>>> them with a web address, when they can Google it in the same amount of
>>> time as I can. It feels sometimes like they don't realize that I had to
>>> go through the same grueling and aggravating process they are trying to
>>> avoid to get the knowledge I have and that I have to continue struggling
>>> every day despite the stress of it, because it's the only way I can get
>>> anywhere.
>>>
>>> On the other hand, people who want to build a hospital want their
>>> building to be accessible to everyone too, and they don't know how to do
>>> it either. The difference is that the architects of brick and mortor
>>> facilities have to meet standards which are scrutinized by licensing
>>> officials prior to one brick being laid. Website designers, whose jobs
>>> involve putting 1s and0s in the right places, are on their own. They
>>> either don't consider accessibility or they hire someone to test the
>>> accessibility who is not a user of the adaptive software on a regular
>>> basis. It's difficult to force yourself to not notice things if you can
>>> see them, and difficult to be conscious of when your sight has
>>> influenced something you do with the screen reader. IMO, websites should
>>> be tested for accessibility by blind people and some of them should have
>>> average screen reader skills.
>>>
>>> Also, there are other accessibility issues in addition to screen
>>> readers. Sites need to work for people using magnification and voice
>>> recognition as well. Donna
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Homme,
>>> James
>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2014 8:16 AM
>>> To: Writer's Division Mailing List
>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Thea, New Kid
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>> I do accessibility work a lot. In my experience, most people want to
>>> make their stuff accessible. They just don't know what accessibility is,
>>> or how it affects people with disabilities. Most people assume,
>>> naturally enough, that whoever wants to can simply just use their stuff.
>>> And one of my pet peeves is when someone who should know how to use
>>> their screen reader better complains that something is inaccessible,
>>> because they don't want to take the time to use the help available to
>>> them. We make ourselves look bad when this happens.
>>>
>>> Sorry. I'm a little cranky today. I need to do my journaling.
>>>
>>> Jim
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Miss Thea
>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2014 2:43 PM
>>> To: Writer's Division Mailing List
>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Thea, New Kid
>>>
>>> Think I'll document my experiences with Triond on my new blog, then
>>> spread it on Social Media like butter on bread. Hahahaha. Thea
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Atty Rose
>>> Sent: Monday, March 10, 2014 11:33 AM
>>> To: Writer's Division Mailing List
>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Thea, New Kid
>>>
>>> Hi Thea,
>>>
>>> Welcome. I get so frustrated when this happens. If writing letters isn't
>>> working and there is no phone, all you can do really put a claim against
>>> them, or have all your blind friends write them too. I always write a
>>> letter if I run into issues. Even if nothing happens I stand up for our
>>> comunity. Sometimes it works great! Sometimes I get nothing back.
>>>
>>> All you can do is your best!
>>>
>>> Well met,
>>> Atty
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Miss Thea" <thearamsay at rogers.com>
>>> To: "Writer's Division Mailing List" <stylist at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Monday, March 10, 2014 3:45 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Thea, New Kid
>>>
>>>
>>>> Hi, Donna.
>>>> There is a place where you can upload photos, but it is still
>>>> inaccessible, as you have to drag and drop images.
>>>>
>>>> All I want is my name in print--a hardcover or paperback with my John
>>>> Hancock and a great story inside, that people can get lost in. I don't
>>>
>>>> mind doing the work; I don't mind doing hard work. But I DO mind
>>>> wasting my time, and there's not even a way for me to express my
>>>> displeasure by cancelling my account. I guess I could just let it go,
>>>> and concentrate on the things I can do, which is why I'm here. Nice to
>>>
>>>> meet you, too. Thea
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Applebutter Hill
>>>> Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2014 8:11 PM
>>>> To: 'Writer's Division Mailing List'
>>>> Subject: Re: [stylist] Thea, New Kid
>>>>
>>>> Hi Thea,
>>>> Welcome to Stylist. I wrote for a bunch of online magazines for years,
>>>
>>>> but not this one. I'm thinking of a couple of things.
>>>>
>>>> First, what would a person do if they had their own photos? Is there
>>>> an uploader? It seems bogus that they would force people to pick and
>>>> choose from stock photos and not have an option to upload photos of
>>>> their
>>> own.
>>>>
>>>> I'm saying this, because, if there is an uploader that you can use,
>>>> there are sites where you can get free, high quality photos that you
>>>> could download and then upload to this site. The captions are usually
>>>> clear enough to get the idea what the photo is, and as long as you
>>>> credit the photographer or the group, you can use them without fear.
>>>>
>>>> As far as your efforts to bring this to the attention of the site go,
>>>> it is something we need to do, but it rarely results in positive
>>>> changes. I used to write for Suite 101, which had revenue sharing and
>>>> required a photo with each article. It was accessible until they re
>>>> designed their site. I wrote to them many times, and I was assured
>>>> that accessibility was a priority for them. They even asked me to do
>>>> beta testing on the new site, which I did. Nothing ever changed.
>>>> Ultimately they dropped their journalistic standards, such as they
>>>> were, and at that point, I really wasn't interested in writing for
>>>> them anyway.
>>>>
>>>> Suite 101 is a Canadian company, so they don't fall under our laws.
>>>> But, the laws we have in the US are not being enforced even on
>>>> government websites. The irony to me was that when Suite 101 started
>>>> becoming less accessible, I was in the midst of writing a series of
>>>> articles on web accessibility.
>>>>
>>>> Anyway, it's nice to meet you, and I look forward to getting to know
>>>> you. Donna
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Miss
>>>> Thea
>>>> Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2014 5:36 PM
>>>> To: stylist at nfbnet.org
>>>> Subject: [stylist] Thea, New Kid
>>>>
>>>> Hi, everyone.
>>>> I'm Thea, I just joined the list, and I write all kinds of stuff:
>>>> fiction, nonfiction, and fan fiction. I guess that about covers it,
>>>> eh? I used to publish articles and short stories on www.triond.com but
>>>
>>>> they require an image with each submission. I had sighted help for a
>>>> while, but once the sighted help disappeared, I found I could not use
>>>> this site because of its image requirement. It's not a Captcha I have
>>>> to fill in. This site requires, along with the article, your selection
>>>
>>>> of a category, which you can choose from a combo
>>>> box: health, news, politics, women ... Then after the body of your
>>>> article, you add tags. Let's say you've chosen "women". Your tags
>>>> could be birth control, birth control devices, IUD, etc. Then there's
>>>> a question mark where a chosen image should go. You hit the "get image
>>>
>>>> suggestions" button, and images are supposed to present themselves.
>>>> At this time, you have to be able to see the image and drag it to the
>>>> question mark.
>>>> Last but not least, you have to check the box that says you are the
>>>> original creator of this work, and click submit.
>>>> Piece o' cake ... if you can see.
>>>> Has anyone ever tried or found some way around this difficulty?
>>>> The site is www.triond.com
>>>> My emails to them about this barrier have netted me no response.
>>>> The site is free, and supposedly, you can create a following, if
>>>> you're prolific enough, and you can earn money, be it ever so small.
>>>> I don't mind that. I DO mind this inaccessibility, and the company's
>>>> apparent lack of interest.
>>>> Anyone ever tried this www.triond.com
>>>> While I had sighted help, I published articles and stories, so I have
>>>> a small portfolio if you like.
>>>> Now the sighted help is gone, and I'm stuck.
>>>> Any help appreciated,
>>>> Thea
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>
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