[stylist] FW: keeping poems, for Robert, Bridgit, Lynda, and Barbara, others

Fri Jun 12 17:43:06 UTC 2015

Jackie,

Based on my research and what I have been told by my past writing profs, all who are published writers along with many working as editors, a group like Stylist is considered an online writing group, and therefore, any material posted is not considered as being published. However, as Lynda points out, some contest and publications may not want to accept work that has been posted online even if not considered as being published. The best rule is to research and read all guidelines for contest and publications.

Any group intended as a source for sharing and critiqueing peer writing, whether it in person or online, is not deemed as publishing. The intent is to help writers strengthen their craft. But again, particularly if an online group, some may not want work that is or has been floating around on the internet.

However, as mentioned before, if posting material on a website or social media page like Facebook or Twitter, your work would be consider as being previously published. These sites are not for workshop settings but purely for sharing, even if comments can be made about writing posted.

The group Robert shared your writing with, I believe, was the Nebraska senior division. I'm sure your work has not been shared outside the group, nor is it in any way a writing group. Nebraska has no state division of the Writer's Division or any writing-based group associated with the NFB or any other blind organization, that I'm aware of as a fellow Nebraskan. If I remember correctly, Robert wanted to share your work as an inspirational thing. Perhaps I'm thinking of someone else, but I think this is accurate. Regardless, you really have no need to worry if you shared your writing with Robert and the NE senior division, or whatever group he shared it with. This should have no bearing on your ability to submit it to a contest or publication, unless someone posted it online without your permission.

As for the Writers' writing contest, it would be up to the Division board to establish contest guidelines, and currently, there's nothing against submitting material for the contest that has previously been posted on Stylist. If the Division wants to make changes regarding this, they need to do so and reflect it in the guidelines, but currently, there's nothing against it. Likewise, there's nothing in the Slate & Style guidelines against this either.

Bridgit

-----Original Message-----
From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jackie Williams via stylist
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2015 11:44 AM
To: 'Writers' Division Mailing List'
Cc: Jackie Williams
Subject: Re: [stylist] FW: keeping poems, for Robert, Bridgit, Lynda, and Barbara, others

Lynda, Bridgit, and those mentioned above.

Thanks so much for your comprehensive responses. I did not know that Google would have such detail about a person, or that Facebook was fair game.
Several responses above indicate that this list is safe. But here is a very specific instance of my question.
A while ago I posted a flash fiction piece, something I had never written before. I was overjoyed with the response, and particularly from Robert, who said he was sending it to the Nebraska group because he thought they would enjoy it.
It was a definite ego-booster. But on reflection, I feel I can never submit it, because I do not know if that group is a list like ours, or who there might have shared it outside their group. I never got any feedback from anyone outside this group.
And so, a short short career in fiction writing. Or should I take a chance and submit it elsewhere? Also, when you have put something on this list for a critique or comment, can you then legitimately send it to the NFB contest? The judges would know who wrote it, and that is strictly against any rules I know about.

Jackie Lee

Time is the school in which we learn.
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz	 

-----Original Message-----
From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Lynda Lambert via stylist
Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2015 3:20 PM
To: Writers' Division Mailing List
Cc: Lynda Lambert
Subject: Re: [stylist] FW: keeping poems

Jackie's point is certainly a good one - for those of us who work with publishers and journals, we cannot post our work for many publications will not accept anything that has been published previously anywhere at all - even on your own Facebook page. That is a sobering fact, and it comes back to bite  us if we do it and we would  lose credibility with the publishers who work with us.  I do not enter contests much at all - only two in a year, because I am in the groups, so that is not my concern.  But I do want to continue to have my work appear in publications where I am paid for my  work and would never consider sending the editors  anything that was published anywhere else unless it is specified in the rules for Submissions that it is ok to do so. My interest and expertise is in essays and poetry - so that is what I choose to comment on typically in the group.  Just keeping up with my own work keeps me hopping.  This all works exactly like  gallery and museum art exhibitions - the higher quality exhibition venues  will not show work that has appeared an any other shows unless it is part of a traveling exhibition and in that case the entire show travels all over the states and abroad with the show.  - the best galleries want exclusive rights.  This is all fascinating, isn't it!

Another good point is that things we write and post on the internet, even in groups, is often available when you do a google search on that person and their work.  Particularly anything you have put on Facebook - even if you delete, it is still available through google search.  I have to ask myself, "Is it worth being banned from a publication because of something I posted on the internet in the past?"  It's a no-brainer, isn't it! If in doubt - don't do it. Lynda

-----Original Message-----
From: Jackie Williams via stylist
Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2015 5:21 PM
To: 'Writers' Division Mailing List'
Cc: Jackie Williams
Subject: [stylist] FW: keeping poems

Barbara, and all, a response that I wanted all to get and respond to.

Jackie Lee

Time is the school in which we learn.
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz

-----Original Message-----
From: Jackie Williams [mailto:jackieleepoet at cox.net]
Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2015 7:53 AM
To: 'Barbara Hammel'
Subject: RE: keeping poems

Barbara,
Your point is well taken. There might be a subtle difference between my critique group and this list, this being electronic, and the other hard copies.
This was addressed some time ago by Bridgit and Robert, that this list is a group meant for critiquing and sharing, and a contest should not disqualify a poem because it is posted here. I agree it should not, however recently a poem was disqualified because the National Federation of State Poetry Societies found it somewhere on the internet. Searches are pretty comprehensive these days I am told.
I have also collected some of the poems from members here, particularly when they introduce a new form, like Myrna with her tumbling tercets and cascading quatrains, and your  poem about seeing letters and certain things in colors which describes a certain eye condition I can never remember the name for. Also, things like Lynda's relating of her strategy for writing that 39 line poem with the same six words repeated in six stanzas in a prescribed manner, with another 3 lines at the bottom. I describe this because my memory for the word for certain forms sometimes escapes me now. 
It always comes back, but not when I need it.
It is not that I do not trust the ones on this list, but that contests are pretty specific about not publishing or putting your work on anything if you are submitting it to them, unless they say you may have simultaneous submissions. I have approximately fifty poems in submission at this moment, and I do not want to risk jeopardizing them.
Also, on a personal level, I have shared my long manuscript with its added "A Battered Woman's Glossary, A Ludicrous Lexicon of Legal terms, with seven different critiquers. With their critique, " five returned the manuscript plus the Glossary, and two kept the Glossary saying they wanted to show it to someone, and whoever they shared it with never returned it.
This manuscript has been submitted to10 contests in the past, and I am always afraid that I will get a notice that that Glossary is someone else's.
As poets, we are encouraged to save favorite lines, or favorite poems, and even to make "erasure" poems from then, where you can erase half of that persons poem, rework the rest, and claim it as your own, being sure to give credit to the original poet. But already, some of these are being legally challenged.
The pace of change in copywrite laws is moving and getting much more complicated by the internet. I wish it were not so. And the argument by many is that there is nothing that has not been said before, so they should be able to use anything that has been used before, thus evading the law.
In the meantime, I agree that so many submissions here are worthy of saving primarily as teaching tools for methodology, or form, or for examples of creative use of language.
I hope this mixed message makes sense to you.

Jackie Lee

Time is the school in which we learn.
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz

-----Original Message-----
From: Barbara Hammel [mailto:poetlori8 at icloud.com]
Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2015 1:30 PM
To: jackieleepoet at cox.net
Subject: keeping poems

If one has no intent of ever sharing another's poem without their permission is it so bad to keep them? I have your A Rainbow Came Down poem — probably not your final copy — because I liked it. Will anyone ever know I have it? 
No except that it's one by you. Would I ever print it or give to anyone without asking you? No.
I have five or seven of Myrna's, too. If a book were out that had all of them, I'd probably buy it for the final printed versions of them. Guess I don't make a competitive or smart writer, huh. Oh, and I'd NEVER claim another's work as my own.
Barbara
Sent from my iPhone

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