[stylist] FW: keeping poems, for Robert, Bridgit, Lynda, and Barbara, others

Fri Jun 12 19:34:03 UTC 2015

Yes, folks, the bottom line is read the guidelines and follow them. Lynda

-----Original Message----- 
From: Bridgit Kuenning-Pollpeter via stylist
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2015 1:43 PM
To: 'Writers' Division Mailing List'
Cc: Bridgit Kuenning-Pollpeter
Subject: Re: [stylist] FW: keeping poems, for Robert, Bridgit, Lynda,and 
Barbara, others

Jackie,

Based on my research and what I have been told by my past writing profs, all 
who are published writers along with many working as editors, a group like 
Stylist is considered an online writing group, and therefore, any material 
posted is not considered as being published. However, as Lynda points out, 
some contest and publications may not want to accept work that has been 
posted online even if not considered as being published. The best rule is to 
research and read all guidelines for contest and publications.

Any group intended as a source for sharing and critiqueing peer writing, 
whether it in person or online, is not deemed as publishing. The intent is 
to help writers strengthen their craft. But again, particularly if an online 
group, some may not want work that is or has been floating around on the 
internet.

However, as mentioned before, if posting material on a website or social 
media page like Facebook or Twitter, your work would be consider as being 
previously published. These sites are not for workshop settings but purely 
for sharing, even if comments can be made about writing posted.

The group Robert shared your writing with, I believe, was the Nebraska 
senior division. I'm sure your work has not been shared outside the group, 
nor is it in any way a writing group. Nebraska has no state division of the 
Writer's Division or any writing-based group associated with the NFB or any 
other blind organization, that I'm aware of as a fellow Nebraskan. If I 
remember correctly, Robert wanted to share your work as an inspirational 
thing. Perhaps I'm thinking of someone else, but I think this is accurate. 
Regardless, you really have no need to worry if you shared your writing with 
Robert and the NE senior division, or whatever group he shared it with. This 
should have no bearing on your ability to submit it to a contest or 
publication, unless someone posted it online without your permission.

As for the Writers' writing contest, it would be up to the Division board to 
establish contest guidelines, and currently, there's nothing against 
submitting material for the contest that has previously been posted on 
Stylist. If the Division wants to make changes regarding this, they need to 
do so and reflect it in the guidelines, but currently, there's nothing 
against it. Likewise, there's nothing in the Slate & Style guidelines 
against this either.

Bridgit

-----Original Message-----
From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jackie 
Williams via stylist
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2015 11:44 AM
To: 'Writers' Division Mailing List'
Cc: Jackie Williams
Subject: Re: [stylist] FW: keeping poems, for Robert, Bridgit, Lynda, and 
Barbara, others

Lynda, Bridgit, and those mentioned above.

Thanks so much for your comprehensive responses. I did not know that Google 
would have such detail about a person, or that Facebook was fair game.
Several responses above indicate that this list is safe. But here is a very 
specific instance of my question.
A while ago I posted a flash fiction piece, something I had never written 
before. I was overjoyed with the response, and particularly from Robert, who 
said he was sending it to the Nebraska group because he thought they would 
enjoy it.
It was a definite ego-booster. But on reflection, I feel I can never submit 
it, because I do not know if that group is a list like ours, or who there 
might have shared it outside their group. I never got any feedback from 
anyone outside this group.
And so, a short short career in fiction writing. Or should I take a chance 
and submit it elsewhere? Also, when you have put something on this list for 
a critique or comment, can you then legitimately send it to the NFB contest? 
The judges would know who wrote it, and that is strictly against any rules I 
know about.

Jackie Lee

Time is the school in which we learn.
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz

-----Original Message-----
From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Lynda Lambert 
via stylist
Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2015 3:20 PM
To: Writers' Division Mailing List
Cc: Lynda Lambert
Subject: Re: [stylist] FW: keeping poems

Jackie's point is certainly a good one - for those of us who work with 
publishers and journals, we cannot post our work for many publications will 
not accept anything that has been published previously anywhere at all - 
even on your own Facebook page. That is a sobering fact, and it comes back 
to bite  us if we do it and we would  lose credibility with the publishers 
who work with us.  I do not enter contests much at all - only two in a year, 
because I am in the groups, so that is not my concern.  But I do want to 
continue to have my work appear in publications where I am paid for my  work 
and would never consider sending the editors  anything that was published 
anywhere else unless it is specified in the rules for Submissions that it is 
ok to do so. My interest and expertise is in essays and poetry - so that is 
what I choose to comment on typically in the group.  Just keeping up with my 
own work keeps me hopping.  This all works exactly like  gallery and museum 
art exhibitions - the higher quality exhibition venues  will not show work 
that has appeared an any other shows unless it is part of a traveling 
exhibition and in that case the entire show travels all over the states and 
abroad with the show.  - the best galleries want exclusive rights.  This is 
all fascinating, isn't it!

Another good point is that things we write and post on the internet, even in 
groups, is often available when you do a google search on that person and 
their work.  Particularly anything you have put on Facebook - even if you 
delete, it is still available through google search.  I have to ask myself, 
"Is it worth being banned from a publication because of something I posted 
on the internet in the past?"  It's a no-brainer, isn't it! If in doubt - 
don't do it. Lynda

-----Original Message-----
From: Jackie Williams via stylist
Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2015 5:21 PM
To: 'Writers' Division Mailing List'
Cc: Jackie Williams
Subject: [stylist] FW: keeping poems

Barbara, and all, a response that I wanted all to get and respond to.

Jackie Lee

Time is the school in which we learn.
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz

-----Original Message-----
From: Jackie Williams [mailto:jackieleepoet at cox.net]
Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2015 7:53 AM
To: 'Barbara Hammel'
Subject: RE: keeping poems

Barbara,
Your point is well taken. There might be a subtle difference between my 
critique group and this list, this being electronic, and the other hard 
copies.
This was addressed some time ago by Bridgit and Robert, that this list is a 
group meant for critiquing and sharing, and a contest should not disqualify 
a poem because it is posted here. I agree it should not, however recently a 
poem was disqualified because the National Federation of State Poetry 
Societies found it somewhere on the internet. Searches are pretty 
comprehensive these days I am told.
I have also collected some of the poems from members here, particularly when 
they introduce a new form, like Myrna with her tumbling tercets and 
cascading quatrains, and your  poem about seeing letters and certain things 
in colors which describes a certain eye condition I can never remember the 
name for. Also, things like Lynda's relating of her strategy for writing 
that 39 line poem with the same six words repeated in six stanzas in a 
prescribed manner, with another 3 lines at the bottom. I describe this 
because my memory for the word for certain forms sometimes escapes me now.
It always comes back, but not when I need it.
It is not that I do not trust the ones on this list, but that contests are 
pretty specific about not publishing or putting your work on anything if you 
are submitting it to them, unless they say you may have simultaneous 
submissions. I have approximately fifty poems in submission at this moment, 
and I do not want to risk jeopardizing them.
Also, on a personal level, I have shared my long manuscript with its added 
"A Battered Woman's Glossary, A Ludicrous Lexicon of Legal terms, with seven 
different critiquers. With their critique, " five returned the manuscript 
plus the Glossary, and two kept the Glossary saying they wanted to show it 
to someone, and whoever they shared it with never returned it.
This manuscript has been submitted to10 contests in the past, and I am 
always afraid that I will get a notice that that Glossary is someone else's.
As poets, we are encouraged to save favorite lines, or favorite poems, and 
even to make "erasure" poems from then, where you can erase half of that 
persons poem, rework the rest, and claim it as your own, being sure to give 
credit to the original poet. But already, some of these are being legally 
challenged.
The pace of change in copywrite laws is moving and getting much more 
complicated by the internet. I wish it were not so. And the argument by many 
is that there is nothing that has not been said before, so they should be 
able to use anything that has been used before, thus evading the law.
In the meantime, I agree that so many submissions here are worthy of saving 
primarily as teaching tools for methodology, or form, or for examples of 
creative use of language.
I hope this mixed message makes sense to you.

Jackie Lee

Time is the school in which we learn.
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz

-----Original Message-----
From: Barbara Hammel [mailto:poetlori8 at icloud.com]
Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2015 1:30 PM
To: jackieleepoet at cox.net
Subject: keeping poems

If one has no intent of ever sharing another's poem without their permission 
is it so bad to keep them? I have your A Rainbow Came Down poem — probably 
not your final copy — because I liked it. Will anyone ever know I have it?
No except that it's one by you. Would I ever print it or give to anyone 
without asking you? No.
I have five or seven of Myrna's, too. If a book were out that had all of 
them, I'd probably buy it for the final printed versions of them. Guess I 
don't make a competitive or smart writer, huh. Oh, and I'd NEVER claim 
another's work as my own.
Barbara
Sent from my iPhone

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