[stylist] FW: keeping poems, for Robert, Bridgit, Lynda, and Barbara, others

Sat Jun 13 16:09:31 UTC 2015

Back to the original subject...  You all have me concerned about publishing
things and then having future works turned down because of it. I know that
you were mainly speaking of poetry as a whole, but does that carry over
into fiction? What I am specifically thinking of is publishing a preface to
a book that I want published later in its complete form. Will that make the
entire book unpublishable? Please, I hope someone has the answer to this.
Thankx, Eve

On Sat, Jun 13, 2015 at 8:59 AM, Lynda Lambert via stylist <
stylist at nfbnet.org> wrote:

> wow, Bridgit, you sure have a first hand experience with this dilemma
> through your sister.  That situation is too bad for her and sorry it
> happened to her.  It would be hard to recover after this kind of situation
> because it could certainly keep her from other employment in the future.  I
> hope this helps her see her role in the community in a new way.
>
> In my world, to have a job is an honor - I believe in the integrity and
> privilege of holding a job.  I think work is very good for us as humans,
> and it is a vocation or calling and much more than a paycheck or putting in
> some hours each week.  Parker Palmer has written a number of excellent
> books on the value of work. in our lives.   I have loved all my positions
> and all the small jobs I did over the years as I matured. For each of them,
> I believed in working as though I personally owned  the company so it would
> never enter my mind to speak ill of the company, the employers, or the
> other folks who I worked with.  My husband never had to listen to me
> speaking negatively about the school or my students - it just never
> happened.  It is called collegiality and our tenure track  positions depend
> on being able to be  a positive part of the programs.  I hear from many of
> my former students and I am able to see their development in their field of
> study, so I know integrity and honor in the work place and personal life
> exists yet today - young people still have a commitment to being the change
> that makes the world a better place to live, as Gandhi asked us
> to be. I see education as teaching us all  how to be a servant leader.
> There are so many fine examples of people who have lived in this way and
> they have truly become the change that changes the world - one by one.  For
> social media, it's good to ask, "Will this thought I am going to write lead
> me to where I want to be?  Weill what I write today take me to a good
> place?"  Lynda
>
>
> From: Bridgit Kuenning-Pollpeter via stylist
> Sent: Saturday, June 13, 2015 11:04 AM
> To: 'Writers' Division Mailing List'
> Cc: Bridgit Kuenning-Pollpeter
>
> Subject: Re: [stylist] FW: keeping poems, for Robert, Bridgit, Lynda,and
> Barbara, others
>
> I think employers should not be allowed to search social media when hiring
> or to keep an eye on current employees. As long as you are doing your job
> and not bringing illegal or unethical practices to work, it should not
> matter what you do in your private life. Yes, there is the potential for a
> lot of grey area here, for example, a pastor out posting pictures of
> themselves doing illegal things, or a school bus driver posting comments
> about breaking speed limits. But again, social media should not be a
> hunting ground for employees or a means in which to low-jack employees. If
> a concern is had about an employee, actions can be taken to investigate,
> but for the most part, what a person does in private, whether shared on
> social media or not, should have no bearing on their job, unless completely
> illegal. However, this does happen. My sister was fired from a job because
> she put up negative comments about her boss on Facebook. Since this is
> currently allowed, yes, I would be very careful about what you post since
> you never know who will see it or what they will do with certain
> information.
>
> Bridgit
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Lynda
> Lambert via stylist
> Sent: Friday, June 12, 2015 2:30 PM
> To: Writers' Division Mailing List
> Cc: Lynda Lambert
> Subject: Re: [stylist] FW: keeping poems, for Robert, Bridgit, Lynda, and
> Barbara, others
>
> Jackie, and all,
> I met a woman last week who works for a large corporation in KY - she told
> me they hired someone to work full time at this corporation just to troll
> the internet and read face book postings by the employees - she said they
> have fired many people due to internet comments, photos, etc.
> If you Google Search your name, you may be surprised what comes up if you
> are on the internet very much - comments from blogs and Face Book, etc.
> I would think that an editor or publisher would definitely do a search to
> see whats "out there" by and from an author they consider for publication.
> It would be really disappointing to be passed by because you posted
> something without thinking of the possibilities ahead.
>
> My daughter is a teacher and she has had fellow teachers lose their jobs
> just because they posted vacation photos, with liquor in their hands - my
> daughter does not do FB at all any more because of what could happen is
> someone wrote something on her page, or if someone would not like a comment
> she has made...
>
> There is no such thing as privacy on the internet - really. Things get
> hacked all the time and you never know who would copy/paste your work or
> send it to anyone else regardless of rules.
>
> I don't know anything about judges or contests - but I trust people to be
> fair if they are in that role - typically anyone selected as a judge would
> be well qualified for it otherwise there would be no point to it.
> I have judged many things and certainly looked at each entry for what it
> was without thought of who may have created the piece. I think any other
> judge would be impartial as well in this kind of situation.  Here's to a
> good say of writing.  Lynda
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jackie Williams via stylist
> Sent: Friday, June 12, 2015 12:43 PM
> To: 'Writers' Division Mailing List'
> Cc: Jackie Williams
> Subject: Re: [stylist] FW: keeping poems, for Robert, Bridgit, Lynda,and
> Barbara, others
>
> Lynda, Bridgit, and those mentioned above.
>
> Thanks so much for your comprehensive responses. I did not know that
> Google would have such detail about a person, or that Facebook was fair
> game.
> Several responses above indicate that this list is safe. But here is a
> very specific instance of my question.
> A while ago I posted a flash fiction piece, something I had never written
> before. I was overjoyed with the response, and particularly from Robert,
> who said he was sending it to the Nebraska group because he thought they
> would enjoy it.
> It was a definite ego-booster. But on reflection, I feel I can never
> submit it, because I do not know if that group is a list like ours, or who
> there might have shared it outside their group. I never got any feedback
> from anyone outside this group.
> And so, a short short career in fiction writing. Or should I take a chance
> and submit it elsewhere? Also, when you have put something on this list for
> a critique or comment, can you then legitimately send it to the NFB contest?
> The judges would know who wrote it, and that is strictly against any rules
> I know about.
>
>
> Jackie Lee
>
> Time is the school in which we learn.
> Time is the fire in which we burn.
> Delmore Schwartz
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Lynda
> Lambert via stylist
> Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2015 3:20 PM
> To: Writers' Division Mailing List
> Cc: Lynda Lambert
> Subject: Re: [stylist] FW: keeping poems
>
> Jackie's point is certainly a good one - for those of us who work with
> publishers and journals, we cannot post our work for many publications will
> not accept anything that has been published previously anywhere at all -
> even on your own Facebook page. That is a sobering fact, and it comes back
> to bite  us if we do it and we would  lose credibility with the publishers
> who work with us.  I do not enter contests much at all - only two in a
> year, because I am in the groups, so that is not my concern.  But I do want
> to continue to have my work appear in publications where I am paid for my
> work and would never consider sending the editors  anything that was
> published anywhere else unless it is specified in the rules for Submissions
> that it is ok to do so. My interest and expertise is in essays and poetry -
> so that is what I choose to comment on typically in the group.  Just
> keeping up with my own work keeps me hopping.  This all works exactly like
> gallery and museum art exhibitions - the higher quality exhibition venues
> will not show work that has appeared an any other shows unless it is part
> of a traveling exhibition and in that case the entire show travels all over
> the states and abroad with the show.  - the best galleries want exclusive
> rights.  This is all fascinating, isn't it!
>
> Another good point is that things we write and post on the internet, even
> in groups, is often available when you do a google search on that person
> and their work.  Particularly anything you have put on Facebook - even if
> you delete, it is still available through google search.  I have to ask
> myself, "Is it worth being banned from a publication because of something I
> posted on the internet in the past?"  It's a no-brainer, isn't it! If in
> doubt - don't do it. Lynda
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jackie Williams via stylist
> Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2015 5:21 PM
> To: 'Writers' Division Mailing List'
> Cc: Jackie Williams
> Subject: [stylist] FW: keeping poems
>
> Barbara, and all, a response that I wanted all to get and respond to.
>
> Jackie Lee
>
> Time is the school in which we learn.
> Time is the fire in which we burn.
> Delmore Schwartz
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jackie Williams [mailto:jackieleepoet at cox.net]
> Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2015 7:53 AM
> To: 'Barbara Hammel'
> Subject: RE: keeping poems
>
> Barbara,
> Your point is well taken. There might be a subtle difference between my
> critique group and this list, this being electronic, and the other hard
> copies.
> This was addressed some time ago by Bridgit and Robert, that this list is
> a group meant for critiquing and sharing, and a contest should not
> disqualify a poem because it is posted here. I agree it should not, however
> recently a poem was disqualified because the National Federation of State
> Poetry Societies found it somewhere on the internet. Searches are pretty
> comprehensive these days I am told.
> I have also collected some of the poems from members here, particularly
> when they introduce a new form, like Myrna with her tumbling tercets and
> cascading quatrains, and your  poem about seeing letters and certain things
> in colors which describes a certain eye condition I can never remember the
> name for. Also, things like Lynda's relating of her strategy for writing
> that 39 line poem with the same six words repeated in six stanzas in a
> prescribed manner, with another 3 lines at the bottom. I describe this
> because my memory for the word for certain forms sometimes escapes me now.
> It always comes back, but not when I need it.
> It is not that I do not trust the ones on this list, but that contests are
> pretty specific about not publishing or putting your work on anything if
> you are submitting it to them, unless they say you may have simultaneous
> submissions. I have approximately fifty poems in submission at this moment,
> and I do not want to risk jeopardizing them.
> Also, on a personal level, I have shared my long manuscript with its added
> "A Battered Woman's Glossary, A Ludicrous Lexicon of Legal terms, with
> seven different critiquers. With their critique, " five returned the
> manuscript plus the Glossary, and two kept the Glossary saying they wanted
> to show it to someone, and whoever they shared it with never returned it.
> This manuscript has been submitted to10 contests in the past, and I am
> always afraid that I will get a notice that that Glossary is someone else's.
> As poets, we are encouraged to save favorite lines, or favorite poems, and
> even to make "erasure" poems from then, where you can erase half of that
> persons poem, rework the rest, and claim it as your own, being sure to give
> credit to the original poet. But already, some of these are being legally
> challenged.
> The pace of change in copywrite laws is moving and getting much more
> complicated by the internet. I wish it were not so. And the argument by
> many is that there is nothing that has not been said before, so they should
> be able to use anything that has been used before, thus evading the law.
> In the meantime, I agree that so many submissions here are worthy of
> saving primarily as teaching tools for methodology, or form, or for
> examples of creative use of language.
> I hope this mixed message makes sense to you.
>
> Jackie Lee
>
> Time is the school in which we learn.
> Time is the fire in which we burn.
> Delmore Schwartz
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Barbara Hammel [mailto:poetlori8 at icloud.com]
> Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2015 1:30 PM
> To: jackieleepoet at cox.net
> Subject: keeping poems
>
>
>
> If one has no intent of ever sharing another's poem without their
> permission is it so bad to keep them? I have your A Rainbow Came Down poem
> — probably not your final copy — because I liked it. Will anyone ever know
> I have it?
> No except that it's one by you. Would I ever print it or give to anyone
> without asking you? No.
> I have five or seven of Myrna's, too. If a book were out that had all of
> them, I'd probably buy it for the final printed versions of them. Guess I
> don't make a competitive or smart writer, huh. Oh, and I'd NEVER claim
> another's work as my own.
> Barbara
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
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