[stylist] FW: keeping poems, for Robert, Bridgit, Lynda, and Barbara, others

Sat Jun 13 21:54:16 UTC 2015

Lynda,
You make me very happy that I do not have a Facebook account, nor do I Tweet. I have often thought I should, but I hear too many stories.
A really strange thing happened a few days ago. I got an e-mail from Margo Lagatuda. I think many of you know her from a telephone gathering. Right after that I e-mailed her about the subject of rhymed poetry. It was shortly after that she died from a fast moving cancer. This has been 2 or 3 years ago. I received an e-mail from her some months after that and was advised to delete it since she was dead. I did so. So has someone hacked her e-mail account again? If so, how? I am overcome with curiosity this time, but it sits there unopened. What do you all advised?
I googled myself sometime ago and found some thousands of Jacqueline Williams names, most from California, and after reading so many and finding many of them in legal limbo, I did not even refine my search. At the time I wanted  an e-mail address, and finally came up with jackieleepoet which still had not been used.
	The last person here to help me try to straighten out my Outlook folders said she thought I had been hacked because things acted so strangely. I asked how I would know that. She did not know. Do any of you know? Cox said not to worry if there was just one or two episodes of getting strange e-mails, which has happened.
	Sorry, the questions keep coming. Doesn't anyone else have similar problems?

Jackie Lee

Time is the school in which we learn.
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz	 

-----Original Message-----
From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Lynda Lambert via stylist
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2015 12:30 PM
To: Writers' Division Mailing List
Cc: Lynda Lambert
Subject: Re: [stylist] FW: keeping poems, for Robert, Bridgit, Lynda, and Barbara, others

Jackie, and all,
I met a woman last week who works for a large corporation in KY - she told 
me they hired someone to work full time at this corporation just to troll 
the internet and read face book postings by the employees - she said they 
have fired many people due to internet comments, photos, etc.
If you Google Search your name, you may be surprised what comes up if you 
are on the internet very much - comments from blogs and Face Book, etc.
I would think that an editor or publisher would definitely do a search to 
see whats "out there" by and from an author they consider for publication. 
It would be really disappointing to be passed by because you posted 
something without thinking of the possibilities ahead.

My daughter is a teacher and she has had fellow teachers lose their jobs 
just because they posted vacation photos, with liquor in their hands - my 
daughter does not do FB at all any more because of what could happen is 
someone wrote something on her page, or if someone would not like a comment 
she has made...

There is no such thing as privacy on the internet - really. Things get 
hacked all the time and you never know who would copy/paste your work or 
send it to anyone else regardless of rules.

I don't know anything about judges or contests - but I trust people to be 
fair if they are in that role - typically anyone selected as a judge would 
be well qualified for it otherwise there would be no point to it.
I have judged many things and certainly looked at each entry for what it was 
without thought of who may have created the piece. I think any other judge 
would be impartial as well in this kind of situation.  Here's to a good say 
of writing.  Lynda

-----Original Message----- 
From: Jackie Williams via stylist
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2015 12:43 PM
To: 'Writers' Division Mailing List'
Cc: Jackie Williams
Subject: Re: [stylist] FW: keeping poems, for Robert, Bridgit, Lynda,and 
Barbara, others

Lynda, Bridgit, and those mentioned above.

Thanks so much for your comprehensive responses. I did not know that Google 
would have such detail about a person, or that Facebook was fair game.
Several responses above indicate that this list is safe. But here is a very 
specific instance of my question.
A while ago I posted a flash fiction piece, something I had never written 
before. I was overjoyed with the response, and particularly from Robert, who 
said he was sending it to the Nebraska group because he thought they would 
enjoy it.
It was a definite ego-booster. But on reflection, I feel I can never submit 
it, because I do not know if that group is a list like ours, or who there 
might have shared it outside their group. I never got any feedback from 
anyone outside this group.
And so, a short short career in fiction writing. Or should I take a chance 
and submit it elsewhere? Also, when you have put something on this list for 
a critique or comment, can you then legitimately send it to the NFB contest? 
The judges would know who wrote it, and that is strictly against any rules I 
know about.

Jackie Lee

Time is the school in which we learn.
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz

-----Original Message-----
From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Lynda Lambert 
via stylist
Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2015 3:20 PM
To: Writers' Division Mailing List
Cc: Lynda Lambert
Subject: Re: [stylist] FW: keeping poems

Jackie's point is certainly a good one - for those of us who work with
publishers and journals, we cannot post our work for many publications will
not accept anything that has been published previously anywhere at all -
even on your own Facebook page. That is a sobering fact, and it comes back
to bite  us if we do it and we would  lose credibility with the publishers
who work with us.  I do not enter contests much at all - only two in a year,
because I am in the groups, so that is not my concern.  But I do want to
continue to have my work appear in publications where I am paid for my  work
and would never consider sending the editors  anything that was published
anywhere else unless it is specified in the rules for Submissions that it is
ok to do so. My interest and expertise is in essays and poetry - so that is
what I choose to comment on typically in the group.  Just keeping up with my
own work keeps me hopping.  This all works exactly like  gallery and museum
art exhibitions - the higher quality exhibition venues  will not show work
that has appeared an any other shows unless it is part of a traveling
exhibition and in that case the entire show travels all over the states and
abroad with the show.  - the best galleries want exclusive rights.  This is
all fascinating, isn't it!

Another good point is that things we write and post on the internet, even in
groups, is often available when you do a google search on that person and
their work.  Particularly anything you have put on Facebook - even if you
delete, it is still available through google search.  I have to ask myself,
"Is it worth being banned from a publication because of something I posted
on the internet in the past?"  It's a no-brainer, isn't it! If in doubt -
don't do it. Lynda

-----Original Message----- 
From: Jackie Williams via stylist
Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2015 5:21 PM
To: 'Writers' Division Mailing List'
Cc: Jackie Williams
Subject: [stylist] FW: keeping poems

Barbara, and all, a response that I wanted all to get and respond to.

Jackie Lee

Time is the school in which we learn.
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz

-----Original Message-----
From: Jackie Williams [mailto:jackieleepoet at cox.net]
Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2015 7:53 AM
To: 'Barbara Hammel'
Subject: RE: keeping poems

Barbara,
Your point is well taken. There might be a subtle difference between my
critique group and this list, this being electronic, and the other hard
copies.
This was addressed some time ago by Bridgit and Robert, that this list is a
group meant for critiquing and sharing, and a contest should not disqualify
a poem because it is posted here. I agree it should not, however recently a
poem was disqualified because the National Federation of State Poetry
Societies found it somewhere on the internet. Searches are pretty
comprehensive these days I am told.
I have also collected some of the poems from members here, particularly when
they introduce a new form, like Myrna with her tumbling tercets and
cascading quatrains, and your  poem about seeing letters and certain things
in colors which describes a certain eye condition I can never remember the
name for. Also, things like Lynda's relating of her strategy for writing
that 39 line poem with the same six words repeated in six stanzas in a
prescribed manner, with another 3 lines at the bottom. I describe this
because my memory for the word for certain forms sometimes escapes me now.
It always comes back, but not when I need it.
It is not that I do not trust the ones on this list, but that contests are
pretty specific about not publishing or putting your work on anything if you
are submitting it to them, unless they say you may have simultaneous
submissions. I have approximately fifty poems in submission at this moment,
and I do not want to risk jeopardizing them.
Also, on a personal level, I have shared my long manuscript with its added
"A Battered Woman's Glossary, A Ludicrous Lexicon of Legal terms, with seven
different critiquers. With their critique, " five returned the manuscript
plus the Glossary, and two kept the Glossary saying they wanted to show it
to someone, and whoever they shared it with never returned it.
This manuscript has been submitted to10 contests in the past, and I am
always afraid that I will get a notice that that Glossary is someone else's.
As poets, we are encouraged to save favorite lines, or favorite poems, and
even to make "erasure" poems from then, where you can erase half of that
persons poem, rework the rest, and claim it as your own, being sure to give
credit to the original poet. But already, some of these are being legally
challenged.
The pace of change in copywrite laws is moving and getting much more
complicated by the internet. I wish it were not so. And the argument by many
is that there is nothing that has not been said before, so they should be
able to use anything that has been used before, thus evading the law.
In the meantime, I agree that so many submissions here are worthy of saving
primarily as teaching tools for methodology, or form, or for examples of
creative use of language.
I hope this mixed message makes sense to you.

Jackie Lee

Time is the school in which we learn.
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz

-----Original Message-----
From: Barbara Hammel [mailto:poetlori8 at icloud.com]
Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2015 1:30 PM
To: jackieleepoet at cox.net
Subject: keeping poems

If one has no intent of ever sharing another's poem without their permission
is it so bad to keep them? I have your A Rainbow Came Down poem — probably
not your final copy — because I liked it. Will anyone ever know I have it?
No except that it's one by you. Would I ever print it or give to anyone
without asking you? No.
I have five or seven of Myrna's, too. If a book were out that had all of
them, I'd probably buy it for the final printed versions of them. Guess I
don't make a competitive or smart writer, huh. Oh, and I'd NEVER claim
another's work as my own.
Barbara
Sent from my iPhone

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