[stylist] FW: keeping poems, for Robert, Bridgit, Lynda, and Barbara, others

Wed Jun 17 13:23:00 UTC 2015

Barbara, the only poems I number are my TANKA, but that does not really 
count as in tanka you really do not name or number any of them - I just did 
the numbers for my own tracking but it is not desirable to name or number a 
tanka for the serious tanka writer typically. Wen I send them off, they have 
no name or number with them.

Yes, Jackie, it is so valuable to me to communicate with others on how they 
organize the work to get it easier  and more  efficient to locate.
My work,  like yours, transforms over the years as I have newer revelations 
on them - just in the past two years, my own shifts of sensibilities and 
thoughts have evolved so much as I grow and change. The poems are ever 
changing as I am.  I still have a significant number of art works and 
writing pieces to get organized into my new system of keeping my 
chronological list.  This all takes enormous blocks of time to get it all 
organized but once it is done - wow- what a big improvement it is!  Lynda

-----Original Message----- 
From: Barbara HAMMEL via stylist
Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2015 12:07 AM
To: Writers' Division Mailing List
Cc: Barbara HAMMEL
Subject: Re: [stylist] FW: keeping poems, for Robert, Bridgit, Lynda,and 
Barbara, others

I number and date all of mine.
Barbara

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 16, 2015, at 19:30, Jackie Williams via stylist 
> <stylist at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>
> Lynda,
> This is wonderful organizing information. I did start a folder of all 
> poems alphabetically, but I think I like your idea better.
> Wish I had just started numbering my poems from the beginning like Emily 
> Dickenson!
> Thanks for a good conversation.
>
> Jackie Lee
>
> Time is the school in which we learn.
> Time is the fire in which we burn.
> Delmore Schwartz
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Lynda 
> Lambert via stylist
> Sent: Monday, June 15, 2015 6:39 AM
> To: Writers' Division Mailing List
> Cc: Lynda Lambert
> Subject: Re: [stylist] FW: keeping poems, for Robert, Bridgit, Lynda, and 
> Barbara, others
>
> Thanks for the tip on the columns - that would be a good idea for me, too.
> One thing I just began to do that has saved me a lot of time this year is 
> to
> aave my files just a little different. Beforet this year, I saved things 
> by
> year - but then, when I wanted to find a poem (let's say) I had to go
> through folders, year by year to find what I needed. Now I took another
> friend's tip, and I have ONE  MASTER FOLDER for  ALL POEMS - In that 
> folder
> I do this:
> Poem15_theSkyVisitedMe - or - Poem99_two friends on a bench...etc.
> So by just opening one folder, I can access any poem by year and name.  I
> can do this by creating a folder for each poem (which I mostly do since I
> also tweak till eternity arrives) and that folder has all the different
> versions by year.
> So, Poem 15 means I wrote the poem in 2015, and then I follow that by the
> name or title of the poem. This has saved me so much search and 
> aggrevation
> time.
> I do the same with all my art.Example: 
>  Fiber15_Dragonshealingbreastplate -
> or - Painting15_HopiFlowerGirl.
> This is working better than everything else I have done over the past 
> years.
>
> Two years ago, I spent several months working on my art archives - tracing
> back to every exhibition I have done, all awards, etc. All  is now on
> computer, thumb drives, and in binders on the shelf - Plus a copy of these
> records was sent off to the museums that  have my work in their permanent
> collection. Each year, I send an update to each museum for the archives
> there on my career and work.  I'll put together the same thing for the
> historical society of the county where I live and work as well.
>
> I have been doing the same for my writing history and archives. This all
> takes a lot of detailed work, searching down all the years for the
> documentation for the different areas - but it is necessary.  Fortunately, 
> I
> don't mind doing this kind of work and really do enjoy it.
> Jackie, I cannot imagine the extensive files and documents you would have.
> Thanks for your good tips!  Lynda
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: Bridgit Kuenning-Pollpeter via stylist
> Sent: Monday, June 15, 2015 3:08 AM
> To: 'Writers' Division Mailing List'
> Cc: Bridgit Kuenning-Pollpeter
> Subject: Re: [stylist] FW: keeping poems, for Robert, Bridgit, Lynda,and
> Barbara, others
>
> Jackie,
>
> No such thing as being over organized, smile.
>
> MS Word can create columns that are accessible to read with JAWS, you just
> have to use a few different key strokes to switch between columns. If your
> teacher is keeping data in columns in MS Word, it's accessible. And if 
> it's
> an Excel spreadsheet, that's completely accessible too, you just need to
> know the hot keys for navigating spreadsheets, which is a little different
> than Word.
>
> As for a thumb drive, also known as a flash drive, no intricate method for
> removing. You simply insert in thumb drive slot and simply pull out when
> done. It's really no different than inserting and removing a CD or the old
> floppy discs. Thumb drives are awesome, and I use them all the time. There
> should be nothing difficult about inserting and removing them. Not sure 
> what
> this person who showed you was talking about. And unlike an external hard
> drive, a thumb drive is portable and can be taken with you and used on any
> computer.
>
> Most computers nowadays, especially laptops, do not have internal CD roms,
> so people purchase external CD ROMS. They can be purchased relatively
> inexpensively.
>
> External hard drives are great for periodically back up a device, but a
> thumb drive is a much better option for backing up individual folders and
> files, especially for writers. And it's easier to retrieve these files 
> from
> your thumb drive than an external hard drive, and you only need navigate
> through what you place on the thumb drive as opposed to the entire 
> computer
> history on an external hard drive. But external hard drives are important 
> to
> have though, I just think for purposes of your writing and classes, a 
> thumb
> drive makes more sense.
>
> I'm also the queen of folders within folders, grin. And I like to date
> material I submit and to what publication, so I know when and where I sent
> something. I keep these in a submission folder. I also tend to revise
> frequently, so I also keep track of what version of a piece I submitted.
>
> Bridgit
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jackie
> Williams via stylist
> Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2015 8:08 PM
> To: 'Writers' Division Mailing List'
> Cc: Jackie Williams
> Subject: Re: [stylist] FW: keeping poems, for Robert, Bridgit, Lynda, and
> Barbara, others
>
> Lynda,
> It is always interesting for me to hear how other writers, and in your 
> case,
> also artists, keep everything in order and at their fingertips.
> I am becoming over organized, and I almost said I would enter no more
> contests this year as it is so hard to do all of these contests again
> without sending the same poems to the same categories.
> How I have things organized at the moment is a folder for each year. In 
> that
> I have a folder for each contest. Inside that, I keep all the files. Each
> poem I enter with the number and category name as required on each
> submission. I also keep the two files, Contest Rules, and Categories in 
> that
> folder.
> Once a folder is over five years old, I start transferring them into a
> single state poetry folder.
> I also have a folder called "Poetry classes. Inside this are the 
> categories,
> "fall, '08,Winter, '08, Spring, '08, then the ones for '09, and up through
> 2015.
> I tend to put everything I want to keep into these classes until I cut 
> them
> to go into other folders, like "The Writer Magazine, with the many
> sub-folders such as "Poet to Poet," and "How I Write. I also have folders 
> on
> publishing information, technology, My four books, with their myriad
> versions and submission info. I seem never to submit the exact version of 
> a
> poem or a book twice. So the versions are sort of lost.
> I do keep hard copy notebooks of everything that has been published, and
> some of these I cannot even bring up on the computer. But in those cases,
> when I was using a Mac, I have the newsletters, magazine, or newspaper
> clippings of what was published.
> My most useful files on the computer are the ones for Paid Awards, and
> Unpaid Awards. These two tell me whether I can re-submit a poem again. If 
> it
> is in the Paid Awards, I cannot, so I always check this before entering a
> poem. I have to be careful about submission dates, and often await the
> results of one contest to know if I can resubmit a poem.
> Several contests are clustered around the summer months, and I have a 
> really
> hard time making sure I have no duplicates submitted. Any ideas for this.?
> My teacher organizes poem by poem with columns with dates, and the minute
> one comes back, she re-submits it immediately. She also records title
> changes in a column. I cannot even read columns, much less make them with 
> my
> jaws, and not seeing anything. I only use Word.
> Because of the increasing complexity, I may instead start looking for
> literary magazines down my alley to submit to, and Website's that might be
> interested in my main book, instead of contests.
> I also run my publishing as a business, but after 6 years, I have yet to
> make a profit considering the cost of entering manuscripts, poems, 
> postage,
> new electronic devices, print cartridges, hiring experts occasionally, and
> taking my poetry class every session.  So far the IRS has accepted the no
> profit, but I expect it won't continue much longer.
>
> I am in the process of cleaning out my files. My life will not extend to
> having time for re-reading everything I have saved through the years. It 
> is
> slow going, for it is like many strings of pearls that I might take out to
> read when I like.
> Also, when I move things from file to folder, the date or origination
> disappears. With my constant little changes in titles, I cannot always 
> find
> a poem.
> I have used CD's and thumb drives in the past, and one saved most of my
> stuff when I had a crash, but my present computer will hardly let a CD 
> enter
> the slot, and I have not tried a thumb drive with it, since I got such
> intricate directions on how to remove it. That is why I got the external
> hard drive with the HD Smartware to back everything up. If it is not
> working, I am lost.
>
> Jackie Lee
>
> Computers are the schools in which we learn.
> Time is the fire in which we burn.
> After Delmore Schwartz
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Lynda 
> Lambert
> via stylist
> Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2015 3:35 PM
> To: Writers' Division Mailing List
> Cc: Lynda Lambert
> Subject: Re: [stylist] FW: keeping poems, for Robert, Bridgit, Lynda, and
> Barbara, others
>
> Jackie, I do not back up any email at all on anything. When I am working
> with an editor on a project, I just flag all the messages and put them
> together while we are working, but other than that, I don't save emails
> unless it would really be necessary.
>
> I back up all writings and art works, photography, etc. on CDs and Thumb
> Drives - keep them separate, so if I have a crash again I will be ok. That
> is what save me last year when everything was gone.
> I know you most likely have extensive files from so many years of writing
> and probably have a very good system. I would love to hear how you keep
> records for your work, you entries, and your archives, and how you keep
> track of everything. I am always looking for tips to be more efficient 
> with
> it all.  Once things are published, I keep hard copies of all the
> periodicals, journals,  and books, too. Usually, I have several copies of
> each for my private archives.
>
> I am a file-a-holic - meaning, I have physical binders, one for each 
> project
> I am working on. No, I cannot read any of them myself, but It is important
> to have them in case that item would be lost - I would at least have the
> hard copy to use in recreating it again.  Each book project has it's own
> binder, etc. In that binder is every piece of writing for the project, all
> of the research I have gathered for it, (I also do this for every art
> exhibition I am working on, since I work 2-3 years in advance pulling
> together exhibitions for various venues).  Each binder contains  hard
> copies, in transparent sleeves to keep them pristine and archival. In
> addition, inside that binder, I have a CD with every file on it, in 
> folders,
> and keep it all together.  In addition to saving all writings and art 
> works
> on my compute;r, I have the duplicates in the binders. When I need
> something, or have a question, I can go to the physical binder on my shelf
> and double check it there against what I have on the computer - you know,
> how we sometimes forget to put a file on the computer or save things in
> draft form - I know, I am a completely crazy woman when it comes to things
> like archival records, but that is  my background plus I am a Virgo and 
> what
> else can a Virgo ever do but be obsessive about everything?  I think it is
> impossible to be too organized.
>
> You might ask about the email program that allows you to wee an e-mail
> without opening it. I can just zip through all the email so quickly 
> because
> I don't have to open them up. I open very few emails now.
> Lynda
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jackie Williams via stylist
> Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2015 3:05 PM
> To: 'Writers' Division Mailing List'
> Cc: Jackie Williams
> Subject: Re: [stylist] FW: keeping poems, for Robert, Bridgit, Lynda,and
> Barbara, others
>
> Lynda,
> This is critical information for me right now, and I thank you. The Center
> of the Deaf has a new computer in their office waiting for someone to come
> out and transfer all of my files, etc. before installing up to date
> software, etc. The hacked theory came from a computer expert friend in 
> Cal.
> Who did not open an e-mail from me, thinking I could not have sent that 
> one.
> He was right. I did not. The virus theory comes from any expert who has 
> been
> sent by the state to try to figure out what is wrong, and they keep
> re-installing, or putting me back to previous software. The ones who 
> suggest
> a possible virus never seem to know what to tell me to do about it or who 
> to
> contact. Cox seems to think my program has covered that.
> I do have an external hard drive, H D Smart wear, which is supposed to be
> backing up everything. But wouldn't it also be backing up any virus-laden
> e-mail?
>
> Jackie Lee
>
> Time is the school in which we learn.
> Time is the fire in which we burn.
> Delmore Schwartz
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Lynda 
> Lambert
> via stylist
> Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2015 5:17 AM
> To: Writers' Division Mailing List
> Cc: Lynda Lambert
> Subject: Re: [stylist] FW: keeping poems, for Robert, Bridgit, Lynda, and
> Barbara, others
>
> Hi Jackie,
> Just this past week another private list I am  rarely on was hacked. We
> members got an email that had a person's name on it  that we recognized, 
> as
> the sender.  I didn't open it because I was suspicious. I have  an email
> program that enables me to see what is in the message without opening it. 
> I
> have learned to be super cautious because over a year ago, I did open
> something that wiped out my entire computer system.  I had to have a new 
> one
> installed - a new hard drive, etc. So my tech guy put in a different kind 
> of
> email program to prevent this from happening again. In my case, it was
> fortunate I had made several back ups and did not lose much other than all
> my email addresses which I did not make back-ups of prior to the crash.
> Now, I am much more careful about anything that comes into my mailboxes - 
> 8
> email addresses at three different locations. If you are hacked, or you
> click onto a site that will give your computer a virus, you will lose
> everything and your entire computer system, as I did.  I sat here and
> watching everything disappearing, one by one.  Lynda
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jackie Williams via stylist
> Sent: Saturday, June 13, 2015 5:54 PM
> To: 'Writers' Division Mailing List'
> Cc: Jackie Williams
> Subject: Re: [stylist] FW: keeping poems, for Robert, Bridgit, Lynda,and
> Barbara, others
>
> Lynda,
> You make me very happy that I do not have a Facebook account, nor do I
> Tweet. I have often thought I should, but I hear too many stories.
> A really strange thing happened a few days ago. I got an e-mail from Margo
> Lagatuda. I think many of you know her from a telephone gathering. Right
> after that I e-mailed her about the subject of rhymed poetry. It was 
> shortly
> after that she died from a fast moving cancer. This has been 2 or 3 years
> ago. I received an e-mail from her some months after that and was advised 
> to
> delete it since she was dead. I did so. So has someone hacked her e-mail
> account again? If so, how? I am overcome with curiosity this time, but it
> sits there unopened. What do you all advised?
> I googled myself sometime ago and found some thousands of Jacqueline
> Williams names, most from California, and after reading so many and 
> finding
> many of them in legal limbo, I did not even refine my search. At the time 
> I
> wanted  an e-mail address, and finally came up with jackieleepoet which
> still had not been used.
> The last person here to help me try to straighten out my Outlook folders
> said she thought I had been hacked because things acted so strangely. I
> asked how I would know that. She did not know. Do any of you know? Cox 
> said
> not to worry if there was just one or two episodes of getting strange
> e-mails, which has happened.
> Sorry, the questions keep coming. Doesn't anyone else have similar 
> problems?
>
> Jackie Lee
>
> Time is the school in which we learn.
> Time is the fire in which we burn.
> Delmore Schwartz
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Lynda 
> Lambert
> via stylist
> Sent: Friday, June 12, 2015 12:30 PM
> To: Writers' Division Mailing List
> Cc: Lynda Lambert
> Subject: Re: [stylist] FW: keeping poems, for Robert, Bridgit, Lynda, and
> Barbara, others
>
> Jackie, and all,
> I met a woman last week who works for a large corporation in KY - she told
> me they hired someone to work full time at this corporation just to troll
> the internet and read face book postings by the employees - she said they
> have fired many people due to internet comments, photos, etc.
> If you Google Search your name, you may be surprised what comes up if you
> are on the internet very much - comments from blogs and Face Book, etc.
> I would think that an editor or publisher would definitely do a search to
> see whats "out there" by and from an author they consider for publication.
> It would be really disappointing to be passed by because you posted
> something without thinking of the possibilities ahead.
>
> My daughter is a teacher and she has had fellow teachers lose their jobs
> just because they posted vacation photos, with liquor in their hands - my
> daughter does not do FB at all any more because of what could happen is
> someone wrote something on her page, or if someone would not like a 
> comment
> she has made...
>
> There is no such thing as privacy on the internet - really. Things get
> hacked all the time and you never know who would copy/paste your work or
> send it to anyone else regardless of rules.
>
> I don't know anything about judges or contests - but I trust people to be
> fair if they are in that role - typically anyone selected as a judge would
> be well qualified for it otherwise there would be no point to it.
> I have judged many things and certainly looked at each entry for what it 
> was
> without thought of who may have created the piece. I think any other judge
> would be impartial as well in this kind of situation.  Here's to a good 
> say
> of writing.  Lynda
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jackie Williams via stylist
> Sent: Friday, June 12, 2015 12:43 PM
> To: 'Writers' Division Mailing List'
> Cc: Jackie Williams
> Subject: Re: [stylist] FW: keeping poems, for Robert, Bridgit, Lynda,and
> Barbara, others
>
> Lynda, Bridgit, and those mentioned above.
>
> Thanks so much for your comprehensive responses. I did not know that 
> Google
> would have such detail about a person, or that Facebook was fair game.
> Several responses above indicate that this list is safe. But here is a 
> very
> specific instance of my question.
> A while ago I posted a flash fiction piece, something I had never written
> before. I was overjoyed with the response, and particularly from Robert, 
> who
> said he was sending it to the Nebraska group because he thought they would
> enjoy it.
> It was a definite ego-booster. But on reflection, I feel I can never 
> submit
> it, because I do not know if that group is a list like ours, or who there
> might have shared it outside their group. I never got any feedback from
> anyone outside this group.
> And so, a short short career in fiction writing. Or should I take a chance
> and submit it elsewhere? Also, when you have put something on this list 
> for
> a critique or comment, can you then legitimately send it to the NFB 
> contest?
> The judges would know who wrote it, and that is strictly against any rules 
> I
> know about.
>
>
> Jackie Lee
>
> Time is the school in which we learn.
> Time is the fire in which we burn.
> Delmore Schwartz
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: stylist [mailto:stylist-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Lynda 
> Lambert
> via stylist
> Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2015 3:20 PM
> To: Writers' Division Mailing List
> Cc: Lynda Lambert
> Subject: Re: [stylist] FW: keeping poems
>
> Jackie's point is certainly a good one - for those of us who work with
> publishers and journals, we cannot post our work for many publications 
> will
> not accept anything that has been published previously anywhere at all -
> even on your own Facebook page. That is a sobering fact, and it comes back
> to bite  us if we do it and we would  lose credibility with the publishers
> who work with us.  I do not enter contests much at all - only two in a 
> year,
> because I am in the groups, so that is not my concern.  But I do want to
> continue to have my work appear in publications where I am paid for my 
> work
> and would never consider sending the editors  anything that was published
> anywhere else unless it is specified in the rules for Submissions that it 
> is
> ok to do so. My interest and expertise is in essays and poetry - so that 
> is
> what I choose to comment on typically in the group.  Just keeping up with 
> my
> own work keeps me hopping.  This all works exactly like  gallery and 
> museum
> art exhibitions - the higher quality exhibition venues  will not show work
> that has appeared an any other shows unless it is part of a traveling
> exhibition and in that case the entire show travels all over the states 
> and
> abroad with the show.  - the best galleries want exclusive rights.  This 
> is
> all fascinating, isn't it!
>
> Another good point is that things we write and post on the internet, even 
> in
> groups, is often available when you do a google search on that person and
> their work.  Particularly anything you have put on Facebook - even if you
> delete, it is still available through google search.  I have to ask 
> myself,
> "Is it worth being banned from a publication because of something I posted
> on the internet in the past?"  It's a no-brainer, isn't it! If in doubt -
> don't do it. Lynda
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jackie Williams via stylist
> Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2015 5:21 PM
> To: 'Writers' Division Mailing List'
> Cc: Jackie Williams
> Subject: [stylist] FW: keeping poems
>
> Barbara, and all, a response that I wanted all to get and respond to.
>
> Jackie Lee
>
> Time is the school in which we learn.
> Time is the fire in which we burn.
> Delmore Schwartz
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jackie Williams [mailto:jackieleepoet at cox.net]
> Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2015 7:53 AM
> To: 'Barbara Hammel'
> Subject: RE: keeping poems
>
> Barbara,
> Your point is well taken. There might be a subtle difference between my
> critique group and this list, this being electronic, and the other hard
> copies.
> This was addressed some time ago by Bridgit and Robert, that this list is 
> a
> group meant for critiquing and sharing, and a contest should not 
> disqualify
> a poem because it is posted here. I agree it should not, however recently 
> a
> poem was disqualified because the National Federation of State Poetry
> Societies found it somewhere on the internet. Searches are pretty
> comprehensive these days I am told.
> I have also collected some of the poems from members here, particularly 
> when
> they introduce a new form, like Myrna with her tumbling tercets and
> cascading quatrains, and your  poem about seeing letters and certain 
> things
> in colors which describes a certain eye condition I can never remember the
> name for. Also, things like Lynda's relating of her strategy for writing
> that 39 line poem with the same six words repeated in six stanzas in a
> prescribed manner, with another 3 lines at the bottom. I describe this
> because my memory for the word for certain forms sometimes escapes me now.
> It always comes back, but not when I need it.
> It is not that I do not trust the ones on this list, but that contests are
> pretty specific about not publishing or putting your work on anything if 
> you
> are submitting it to them, unless they say you may have simultaneous
> submissions. I have approximately fifty poems in submission at this 
> moment,
> and I do not want to risk jeopardizing them.
> Also, on a personal level, I have shared my long manuscript with its added
> "A Battered Woman's Glossary, A Ludicrous Lexicon of Legal terms, with 
> seven
> different critiquers. With their critique, " five returned the manuscript
> plus the Glossary, and two kept the Glossary saying they wanted to show it
> to someone, and whoever they shared it with never returned it.
> This manuscript has been submitted to10 contests in the past, and I am
> always afraid that I will get a notice that that Glossary is someone 
> else's.
> As poets, we are encouraged to save favorite lines, or favorite poems, and
> even to make "erasure" poems from then, where you can erase half of that
> persons poem, rework the rest, and claim it as your own, being sure to 
> give
> credit to the original poet. But already, some of these are being legally
> challenged.
> The pace of change in copywrite laws is moving and getting much more
> complicated by the internet. I wish it were not so. And the argument by 
> many
> is that there is nothing that has not been said before, so they should be
> able to use anything that has been used before, thus evading the law.
> In the meantime, I agree that so many submissions here are worthy of 
> saving
> primarily as teaching tools for methodology, or form, or for examples of
> creative use of language.
> I hope this mixed message makes sense to you.
>
> Jackie Lee
>
> Time is the school in which we learn.
> Time is the fire in which we burn.
> Delmore Schwartz
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Barbara Hammel [mailto:poetlori8 at icloud.com]
> Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2015 1:30 PM
> To: jackieleepoet at cox.net
> Subject: keeping poems
>
>
>
> If one has no intent of ever sharing another's poem without their 
> permission
> is it so bad to keep them? I have your A Rainbow Came Down poem — probably
> not your final copy — because I liked it. Will anyone ever know I have it?
> No except that it's one by you. Would I ever print it or give to anyone
> without asking you? No.
> I have five or seven of Myrna's, too. If a book were out that had all of
> them, I'd probably buy it for the final printed versions of them. Guess I
> don't make a competitive or smart writer, huh. Oh, and I'd NEVER claim
> another's work as my own.
> Barbara
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
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