[Tactile-Talk] newhaptics

Thu Sep 19 20:09:51 UTC 2024

Both the graphiti and Monarch can reset the entire display in less than 3 seconds.  If it is just changing a few pins it is fractions of a second like 0.5 a pin individually.

From: Tactile-Talk <tactile-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Seeing Hands via Tactile-Talk
Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2024 3:43 PM
To: Tactile Talk for the discussion of the display and use of graphics on refreshable Braille platforms <tactile-talk at nfbnet.org>
Cc: Seeing Hands <community at seeinghands.org>
Subject: Re: [Tactile-Talk] newhaptics

In principle, yes. There is nothing that should prevent you from doing that. Probably the most useful metric for how well it would work is speed of scrolling. If I'm correct that you'll need to zoom in quite a lot, to read that data, the limiting factor would probably be moving the display to the region in the music that you want to check on, both accurately and quickly. I don't have either a Monarch or a Graphiti, so I don't know how quickly each can scroll, but I believe that both are faster than the Canute as it only updates one line at a time because it was meant for displaying text.

On 9/19/2024 10:50, carcione--- via Tactile-Talk wrote:

I wasn’t actually thinking of reading music to play.  Currently, I use my Optacon to check the print music when the translator to braille gets it wrong, so I was just casually wondering if a braille graphics display might do the same thing.

I tried reading braille music on the multi-line braille display that came out of the UK a while back, whose name escapes me, but the display didn’t show enough, and the loading of new lines was so slow, that it wasn’t actually useful.

Tracy

From: Tactile-Talk  <mailto:tactile-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org> <tactile-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Seeing Hands via Tactile-Talk
Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2024 11:47 AM
To: Tactile Talk for the discussion of the display and use of graphics on refreshable Braille platforms  <mailto:tactile-talk at nfbnet.org> <tactile-talk at nfbnet.org>
Cc: Seeing Hands  <mailto:community at seeinghands.org> <community at seeinghands.org>
Subject: Re: [Tactile-Talk] newhaptics

Extracting the image data from a PDF is not the tricky part. Although some displays will support it and some won't, software exists that can extract images from PDFs into other formats which can be sent to the display. That is unlikely to be the limiting factor.

However, the images that you have described may not work well when imported automatically. Print music can use small changes to symbols for important differences in the result. This means that you would probably have to zoom in very much to see the detail, making each individual symbol quite large. I wouldn't be surprised if the 10 by 32 line display on the Monarch was only displaying three symbols across and two down by the time the symbols could be felt with enough accuracy, and that might not even be three notes. Zooming out on that image would probably shrink the musical symbols so much that they're very hard to tell apart. There are some types of graphic that does not adapt well to low-resolution displays. That would be fine if you're trying to learn the shapes of the symbols, but it would probably cause annoyance if you were trying to learn the music that way.

    In the case of printed sheet music, I think converting it to Braille music is likely the more reliable answer. It can be tricky, but software exists to convert sheet music to a format like Music XML with OCR, and that format can be converted to Braille. The multi-line display will make that easier to read than a one-line display, and the density of information will be higher with Braille than it would with graphics. The software that converts music to Braille doesn't, as far as I know, support eBraille yet, but you can arrange it for an embosser with 32-cell lines and 30-line pages for the Monarch. The Graphiti would not support that as well.

On 9/19/2024 7:56, Ken Perry via Tactile-Talk wrote:

Yes monarch and graphiti can I think the others will be able to but kadence is really to small to see anything large.   I am not sure with the metech one but it should.

From: Tactile-Talk  <mailto:tactile-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org> <tactile-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of carcione--- via Tactile-Talk
Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2024 10:21 AM
To: 'Tactile Talk for the discussion of the display and use of graphics on refreshable Braille platforms'  <mailto:tactile-talk at nfbnet.org> <tactile-talk at nfbnet.org>
Cc: carcione at access.net <mailto:carcione at access.net> 
Subject: Re: [Tactile-Talk] newhaptics

Most of the images I come across are in PDFs.  Can any of the devices handle an image from that format?  I’m thinking of print music and knitting charts as examples.  

Print music is 5 lines with notes in various places, often spanning multiple lines.

Knitting charts are rows of rectangular boxes with symbols in them, and a key explaining the symbols.

Tracy

From: Tactile-Talk <tactile-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org <mailto:tactile-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org> > On Behalf Of Alfred D'Agostino via Tactile-Talk
Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2024 9:17 AM
To: Tactile Talk for the discussion of the display and use of graphics on refreshable Braille platforms <tactile-talk at nfbnet.org <mailto:tactile-talk at nfbnet.org> >
Cc: Alfred D'Agostino <alfred.t.dagostinophd at gmail.com <mailto:alfred.t.dagostinophd at gmail.com> >
Subject: Re: [Tactile-Talk] newhaptics

Good morning.

Aside from the development of a full-page display from Newhaptics, and the Graphiti and Monarch, are there any other existing devices or ones being developed?

In general, what form does a graphic have to be in to be translated into the raised-dot format? on these devices? That is, taking a photocopy and digitizing it into bitmap; or if already in digital form, how is it translated into ‘pixels’ on the  device. 

How does a figure in a online digital textbook get translated? Is there a standard protocol / interface?

Alfred

On Wed, Sep 18, 2024 at 7:32 PM Ken Perry via Tactile-Talk <tactile-talk at nfbnet.org <mailto:tactile-talk at nfbnet.org> > wrote:

Yes I have seen it. This is an off shoot of University of Michigan and was
called the Holy Braille.  If you do a search you can probably find a video
on it.   It runs on Air and the under lying  technology has a rubber mat
like material that pushes up pins.  It can run on a air pump or CO2
cartridge.  It has micro vacuoles that open and close to move the pins up
and down.  I like how compact the material is and I have helped with some of
my knowledge in the past . I have my worries about its power source but they
are showing the technology now and it can be resized to make larger
displays.  I say the more types of technologies out there the better.  

From: Tactile-Talk <tactile-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org <mailto:tactile-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org> > On Behalf Of Rich
Caloggero via Tactile-Talk
Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2024 5:44 PM
To: 'Tactile Talk for the discussion of the display and use of graphics on
refreshable Braille platforms' <tactile-talk at nfbnet.org <mailto:tactile-talk at nfbnet.org> >
Cc: Rich Caloggero <rjc at mit.edu <mailto:rjc at mit.edu> >
Subject: [Tactile-Talk] newhaptics

Anyone heard of this company or seen their haptic display? They were at CSUN
this past spring.

https://www.newhaptics.com/about

-- 
Rich Caloggero
Accessibility Specialist
Disability and Access Services
Massachusetts Institute of Technology

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