[Tactile-Talk] newhaptics

Seeing Hands community at seeinghands.org
Thu Sep 19 19:42:31 UTC 2024 

In principle, yes. There is nothing that should prevent you from doing 
that. Probably the most useful metric for how well it would work is 
speed of scrolling. If I'm correct that you'll need to zoom in quite a 
lot, to read that data, the limiting factor would probably be moving the 
display to the region in the music that you want to check on, both 
accurately and quickly. I don't have either a Monarch or a Graphiti, so 
I don't know how quickly each can scroll, but I believe that both are 
faster than the Canute as it only updates one line at a time because it 
was meant for displaying text.

On 9/19/2024 10:50, carcione--- via Tactile-Talk wrote:
>
> I wasn’t actually thinking of reading music to play.  Currently, I use 
> my Optacon to check the print music when the translator to braille 
> gets it wrong, so I was just casually wondering if a braille graphics 
> display might do the same thing.
>
> I tried reading braille music on the multi-line braille display that 
> came out of the UK a while back, whose name escapes me, but the 
> display didn’t show enough, and the loading of new lines was so slow, 
> that it wasn’t actually useful.
>
> Tracy
>
> *From:* Tactile-Talk <tactile-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org> *On Behalf Of 
> *Seeing Hands via Tactile-Talk
> *Sent:* Thursday, September 19, 2024 11:47 AM
> *To:* Tactile Talk for the discussion of the display and use of 
> graphics on refreshable Braille platforms <tactile-talk at nfbnet.org>
> *Cc:* Seeing Hands <community at seeinghands.org>
> *Subject:* Re: [Tactile-Talk] newhaptics
>
> Extracting the image data from a PDF is not the tricky part. Although 
> some displays will support it and some won't, software exists that can 
> extract images from PDFs into other formats which can be sent to the 
> display. That is unlikely to be the limiting factor.
>
> However, the images that you have described may not work well when 
> imported automatically. Print music can use small changes to symbols 
> for important differences in the result. This means that you would 
> probably have to zoom in very much to see the detail, making each 
> individual symbol quite large. I wouldn't be surprised if the 10 by 32 
> line display on the Monarch was only displaying three symbols across 
> and two down by the time the symbols could be felt with enough 
> accuracy, and that might not even be three notes. Zooming out on that 
> image would probably shrink the musical symbols so much that they're 
> very hard to tell apart. There are some types of graphic that does not 
> adapt well to low-resolution displays. That would be fine if you're 
> trying to learn the shapes of the symbols, but it would probably cause 
> annoyance if you were trying to learn the music that way.
>
>     In the case of printed sheet music, I think converting it to 
> Braille music is likely the more reliable answer. It can be tricky, 
> but software exists to convert sheet music to a format like Music XML 
> with OCR, and that format can be converted to Braille. The multi-line 
> display will make that easier to read than a one-line display, and the 
> density of information will be higher with Braille than it would with 
> graphics. The software that converts music to Braille doesn't, as far 
> as I know, support eBraille yet, but you can arrange it for an 
> embosser with 32-cell lines and 30-line pages for the Monarch. The 
> Graphiti would not support that as well.
>
> On 9/19/2024 7:56, Ken Perry via Tactile-Talk wrote:
>
>     Yes monarch and graphiti can I think the others will be able to
>     but kadence is really to small to see anything large.  I am not
>     sure with the metech one but it should.
>
>     *From:* Tactile-Talk <tactile-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org>
>     <mailto:tactile-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org> *On Behalf Of
>     *carcione--- via Tactile-Talk
>     *Sent:* Thursday, September 19, 2024 10:21 AM
>     *To:* 'Tactile Talk for the discussion of the display and use of
>     graphics on refreshable Braille platforms'
>     <tactile-talk at nfbnet.org> <mailto:tactile-talk at nfbnet.org>
>     *Cc:* carcione at access.net
>     *Subject:* Re: [Tactile-Talk] newhaptics
>
>     Most of the images I come across are in PDFs.  Can any of the
>     devices handle an image from that format?  I’m thinking of print
>     music and knitting charts as examples.
>
>     Print music is 5 lines with notes in various places, often
>     spanning multiple lines.
>
>     Knitting charts are rows of rectangular boxes with symbols in
>     them, and a key explaining the symbols.
>
>     Tracy
>
>     *From:* Tactile-Talk <tactile-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org> *On Behalf
>     Of *Alfred D'Agostino via Tactile-Talk
>     *Sent:* Thursday, September 19, 2024 9:17 AM
>     *To:* Tactile Talk for the discussion of the display and use of
>     graphics on refreshable Braille platforms <tactile-talk at nfbnet.org>
>     *Cc:* Alfred D'Agostino <alfred.t.dagostinophd at gmail.com>
>     *Subject:* Re: [Tactile-Talk] newhaptics
>
>     Good morning.
>
>     Aside from the development of a full-page display from Newhaptics,
>     and the Graphiti and Monarch, are there any other existing devices
>     or ones being developed?
>
>     In general, what form does a graphic have to be in to be
>     translated into the raised-dot format? on these devices? That is,
>     taking a photocopy and digitizing it into bitmap; or if already in
>     digital form, how is it translated into ‘pixels’ on the  device.
>
>     How does a figure in a online digital textbook get translated? Is
>     there a standard protocol / interface?
>
>     Alfred
>
>     On Wed, Sep 18, 2024 at 7:32 PM Ken Perry via Tactile-Talk
>     <tactile-talk at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>
>
>         Yes I have seen it. This is an off shoot of University of
>         Michigan and was
>         called the Holy Braille.  If you do a search you can probably
>         find a video
>         on it.   It runs on Air and the under lying  technology has a
>         rubber mat
>         like material that pushes up pins.  It can run on a air pump
>         or CO2
>         cartridge.  It has micro vacuoles that open and close to move
>         the pins up
>         and down.  I like how compact the material is and I have
>         helped with some of
>         my knowledge in the past . I have my worries about its power
>         source but they
>         are showing the technology now and it can be resized to make
>         larger
>         displays.  I say the more types of technologies out there the
>         better.
>
>
>
>
>         From: Tactile-Talk <tactile-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf
>         Of Rich
>         Caloggero via Tactile-Talk
>         Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2024 5:44 PM
>         To: 'Tactile Talk for the discussion of the display and use of
>         graphics on
>         refreshable Braille platforms' <tactile-talk at nfbnet.org>
>         Cc: Rich Caloggero <rjc at mit.edu>
>         Subject: [Tactile-Talk] newhaptics
>
>         Anyone heard of this company or seen their haptic display?
>         They were at CSUN
>         this past spring.
>
>
>         https://www.newhaptics.com/about
>
>
>         -- 
>         Rich Caloggero
>         Accessibility Specialist
>         Disability and Access Services
>         Massachusetts Institute of Technology
>
>
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