[Trainer-Talk] Possibly OT: need advice for dealing with semi-accessible software

Wed Nov 9 23:29:22 UTC 2016

Oh, I see what you mean.  And I wonder now, too if the company selling it is
not the same one as the one who originally developed it.  That company was
called TechnoPro.  I know sometimes that can be frustrating to not deal with
the original developers.  

-----Original Message-----
From: Trainer-Talk [mailto:trainer-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
Deborah Armstrong via Trainer-Talk
Sent: Wednesday, November 9, 2016 6:07 PM
To: List for teachers and trainers of adaptive technology
<trainer-talk at nfbnet.org>
Cc: Deborah Armstrong <armstrongdeborah at fhda.edu>
Subject: Re: [Trainer-Talk] Possibly OT: need advice for dealing with
semi-accessible software

There are many modules that are super accessible. The calendar is wonderful,
more accessible than outlook. The problem is that I prepare alternate media,
and the modules for entering, editing and completing requests and jobs  had
some hastily added keystrokes to make them "accessible". The problem isn't
so much a lack of keystrokes, which is easy to explain to sighted people;
it's the fact that the focus often is  nowhere the screen reader can locate.

The off-screen model is the screen reader's "view" of what's on screen. When
you use your WindowEyes mouse cursor, or screen review in NVDA or the JAWS
cursor, you are moving the mouse through the off-screen model. Yeah, I know
visually it's moving onscreen, but what's being spoken is not the screen
content but the screen reader's database of what it "thinks" at any given
moment is supposed to be there.

You can check this out in JAWS by pointing to something using any JAWS
method and then holding the insert, the alt key and the W to "virtualize"
the current Window. What appears there is what JAWS is actually able to see
at your focus.

--Debee

-----Original Message-----
From: Trainer-Talk [mailto:trainer-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
Julie Adkins via Trainer-Talk
Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2016 2:57 PM
To: List for teachers and trainers of adaptive technology
Cc: Julie Adkins
Subject: Re: [Trainer-Talk] Possibly OT: need advice for dealing with
semi-accessible software

So what is weird in this situation is that their site says Clockwork is
fully accessible with screen readers and that they have a AA rating for WCAG
2.0 compliance. I did see in an internet search that the developer used NVDA
when making it. The company is also specifically a company that makes
accessibility software, so I'm not sure how you ended up with a trainer that
is not familiar with screen readers.  I hope it is just a case of
miscommunication. As a sighted trainer, sometimes I do tend to see myself
almost as an interpreter between the two computer worlds. Since they say it
is completely accessible with screen readers, it sure makes me wish i could
get in there and see what is going on. I'm sure you have HIPPA issues with
that, though.  I also used to work in Disability Services. This looks like
neat software. Anyhow, I would have to admit, even though I bet I could
figure out the easiest way for you to perform the tasks you need to do, i
have no idea what off-screen model means!  

Julie Adkins

> On Nov 8, 2016, at 12:08 PM, Deborah Armstrong via Trainer-Talk
<trainer-talk at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> I work at a college where we use a data management package called
Clockwork. Its website is here:
>                
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__microscience.on.ca
> _clockwork_&d=CwICAg&c=xoYdONxMEGxjdvKj5bOdEOV28uakaJ20R4TjadGGZBc&r=g
> cvya4Pqy0A2EsMRyTgo_3n3PIn53GqWAnSNzbIFuBs&m=TqEePYMU03K40CmdVdKmc5zrB
> yTm_xKQPrH80t4Wxeo&s=Ei8PsaOEMXEwV2UBNEyo5dRtNQ9yNe1c-eh89SGpDLw&e=
> 
> Even though this software is specialized for tracking post-secondary
disabled students, it has some serious accessibility glitches for screen
reader users.
> 
> I have gotten some training from the vendor, but they know little about
screen readers. I know a great deal about screen readers but I didn't know
much about the Clockwork package.
> 
> The vendor has added many keyboard shortcuts, and some of Clockwork's
modules have become reasonably accessible. But other modules still are not.
Even though there are keystrokes to accomplish some tasks, the screen reader
often is unable to track the focus so I can't read what I'm searching for or
entering. And even though I of course know how to use a mouse cursor, the
off-screen model seems to capture only part of the data on screen; there are
often missing chunks when I'm reviewing text. The vendor's training person
doesn't know what an off-screen model or focus tracking is, so we can't
communicate about this problem using the same language.
> 
> I have complained several times to my supervisor, but she has consulted
with the vendor and they seem to decide each time the problem is I need more
technology training. But when I suggest they have a consultant in access
technology come and assist me, they instead want the vendor to work with me
more. I know people in the college system who will take a fresh look at this
problem but my supervisor tells me to not involve others.
> 
> I know JAWS extremely well, NVDA fairly well and WindowEyes well enough to
get by. The behavior of Clockwork is the same with all three screen readers,
except it's most accessible with JAWS. I am the only visually impaired
employee here and have held this job for fifteen years. We just switched
from a paper tracking system to Clockwork two years ago.
> 
> The problems are complicated by the vendor being in Canada, and we are in
Silicon valley. When the trainer does "meet" with me, we speak on conference
call. She uses TeamViewer, and insists she's just pressing keys and not
using the mouse to show me how "easy" it is to enter and search for data.
When she did train me in person once she did cheat and pick up the mouse
several times.
> 
> My husband says that I should disconnect my screen and mouse and insist my
supervisor try using the system without those crutches. But I know this is
just going to anger her more and solve nothing.
> 
> I really need some advice on coping with this in an effective manner.
> 
> I'm not sure how to convince people this software really is only partly
accessible and until it is fixed, there are some tasks I can't perform.
Complaining seems to only get me in trouble.
> 
> --Debee
> 
> 
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