[Travelandtourism] Good morning all something not very happy with over at COSTCO on Monday

Cindy Handel cindy425 at verizon.net
Wed Feb 22 20:58:47 UTC 2012 

Why is it acceptable for a cruise company or Walt Disney World to ask if a 
dog is a guide dog, but it's not acceptable for Cosco to do so?

-----Original Message----- 
From: cheryl echevarria
Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2012 2:27 PM
To: travelandtourism
Subject: Re: [Travelandtourism] Good morning all something not very happy 
with over at COSTCO on Monday



Cindy:
There is no apparently about it.  As a travel professional, as well as, 
anyone else booking travel is not only bringing your guide dog on a cruise 
ship or on vacation. When booking a trip, there are forms to fill out prior 
to traveling.
Such as with a cruise, there are access forms to be filled out. Asking if 
you need oxygen, braille, wheelchair accessibility, bringing guide 
dog/service animal onboard.
So you no you just cannot bring a pet on board a cruise ship.  You cannot 
just bring a dog into Walt Disney World or other locations.  So nothing 
supersedes the ADA, since the guide dog laws are part of the ADA.
If you are going to lie to your travel professional and take the dog on 
vacation with you, we wont know that until you say something.
We are not talking about people pretending to be blind, deaf, wheelchair, 
maybe a child with autism, we are talking about us the blind who are.  If 
people are out there doing this for shame on them. There are plenty, anyone 
can buy a harness for there dog and say that they are disabled.  It is up to 
the person who is doing the farce, to keep up the lying, making sure the dog 
does and acts the way they are suppose to.  Our dogs and others are trained 
to be in control, and be good in manor, if not then the dog can asked to be 
removed from the place of acceptance.
If someone is violating the ADA, then they will be caught for breaking the 
laws in violation as well, impersonating someone who is not disabled and 
getting away with it, in reference to received disability, etc. there are 
very stiff fines in place already for this.  It is called fraud.


Leading the Way in Independent Travel!

Cheryl Echevarria
http://www.echevarriatravel.com
631-456-5394
reservations at echevarriatravel.com

For daily updates read our blog at
http://www.echevarriatravel.wordpress.com

> From: cindy425 at verizon.net
> To: travelandtourism at nfbnet.org
> Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2012 14:14:51 -0500
> Subject: Re: [Travelandtourism] Good morning all something not very happy 
> with over at COSTCO on Monday
>
> Thanks Margo and Julie for your non-answers.  Yes, I know it's illegal,
> because the ADA apparently says so.  But, it seems that it's a bad portion
> of the law.  If I, as a non guide dog user, wanted to have a pet dog and
> take him/her with me on a cruise or on vacation, then it seems all I need 
> to
> do is think of a reason that I should have this dog with me and apparently 
> I
> can't be challenged or even questioned about it.  It leaves the area wide
> open for abuse and people who can actually prove that the dog is a guide 
> dog
> are getting all upset because someone dares to ask for some proof.
>
> Then, does this mean that the ADA supersedes the previous guide dog laws
> which have been in place for decades?
>
> Cindy
>
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: Margo and Arrow
> Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2012 12:21 PM
> To: NFB Travel and Tourism Division List
> Subject: Re: [Travelandtourism] Good morning all something not very happy
> with over at COSTCO on Monday
>
> Whether it's objectionable or not the ADA says one cannot ask for such
> proof.
>
> Margo and Arrow
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Cindy Handel" <cindy425 at verizon.net>
> To: "NFB Travel and Tourism Division List" <travelandtourism at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2012 12:12 PM
> Subject: Re: [Travelandtourism] Good morning all something not very happy
> with over at COSTCO on Monday
>
>
> > I'm just curious...I don't have a guide dog, but my husband does.  I've
> > heard, for a long time, discussion about people objecting to proving 
> > that
> > their dog is a guide dog.  Why is this request so objectionable?  I
> > thought that was why the schools issue the identification cards.
> >
> > Cindy
> >
> > -----Original Message----- 
> > From: Julie J.
> > Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2012 8:46 AM
> > To: NFB Travel and Tourism Division List
> > Subject: Re: [Travelandtourism] Good morning all something not very 
> > happy
> > with over at COSTCO on Monday
> >
> > Cosco is a bit of a sticky situation.  I want to say it was in the early
> > to mid 90's there was a court case with a service dog handler vs.
> > Cosco.  It centered around these same issues of
> > certification/paperwork/proof.  the case was handled quite badly and the
> > judge ruled that Cosco could ask for documentation. I can't remember all
> > the details of the case, but it set a very bad precedent.  To me it
> > looks obvious that the verdict is in direct opposition to the ADA, but
> > the judge didn't agree.  I'm remembering that the case was appealed with
> > the same results.  The case did not make it to the Supreme Court.
> >
> > I would take a guess this is why Cosco has the service dog policy they
> > do and why they get away with it.  Not saying it's right.  Certainly if
> > someone has a solid case and wants to take it back to court that could
> > be a very good thing because it could overturn the previous ruling.
> >
> > Good luck with it,
> > Julie
> >
> >
> >
> > On 2/22/2012 6:54 AM, cheryl echevarria wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> I am posting this to not only the NYAGDU (NY State Division of the
> >> National Association of Guide Dog Users), but also to the Travel and
> >> Tourism Division), both proud divisions of the National Federation of 
> >> the
> >> Blind.
> >> Traveling is also traveling with accessible entrance to all locations,
> >> with cane, sighted guide, as well as, guide dog, or other forms of
> >> mobility that one is comfortable with.
> >> This past Monday, Presidents Day, Nelson, Maxx (my guide  dog) and
> >> myself, did our bi-monthly shopping of Costco, if some of you do not 
> >> know
> >> what COSTCO is, it is one of the those membership stores where you buy 
> >> in
> >> bulk, we don't buy a lot because it is the 2 of us, and I also buy dog
> >> food there.
> >> We have been members of Costco for over 12 years.
> >> When we entered the store after showing our membership card, the lady 
> >> at
> >> the door, asked to see my dogs certification paperwork.
> >> Now for those who are not blind and do not know the ADA laws, first 
> >> there
> >> is no  paperwork for a guide dog, and certified, just no such thing. 
> >> The
> >> schools must be licensed just like any other business, in fact, some
> >> train there own guide dogs, so this statement that the lady made, was
> >> incorrect, also the training for the dog makes it a guide dog.
> >> > From there, I said that I am just going to speak to the store's
> >> > manager, since I had been in this situation prior, but the manager
> >> > always apologized for the incorrect way the person talk to me, and 
> >> > also
> >> > that the employees didn't know better.
> >> That day was different, the manager, told me that it was correct that I
> >> need to show paperwork on my dog that he is a guide dog, now, I am
> >> standing in front of him with dark glasses that blind people wear, and
> >> guide dog in harness.
> >> I stated that there is no such  thing, what makes the dog a guide dog, 
> >> or
> >> for anyone else that is disabled, is the disability and the training 
> >> that
> >> the dog gets to be a service animal, he proceeded to tell me that 
> >> others
> >> have shown him this paperwork, again, what paperwork. I stated not only
> >> am I a graduate of the Guide Dog Foundation of Smithtown, that was less
> >> then 5 minutes away from this location, but that I am a member of that
> >> National Association of Guide Dog Users, a proud division of the 
> >> National
> >> Federation of the Blind, and we are one of the organizations that help
> >> make and enforce the ADA laws pertaining to this.  He basically almost
> >> called me a liar, he said that I am not going to continue the
> >> conversation.
> >> He did not tell me I had to leave, but I want to the customer service
> >> desk with my husband to get the corporate phone number, I tried to call
> >> on my cell phone while I was there, but the reception was really bad, 
> >> and
> >> so we did shop, and then when we got home I made the calls.
> >> My first was to customer service, the young lady on the phone that her
> >> immediate supervisor said that was the policy of Costco to ask for the
> >> paperwork, she gave me his name, I was writing all of this down, so 
> >> that
> >> I could give to Marion Gwizdala, President of NAGDU, and Margo Downey,
> >> President of the NY affiliate of NAGDU (NYAGDU).
> >> I was then given the number to call for the legal department, when I 
> >> did
> >> this they said that I couldn't speak to anyone but that I was given the
> >> name of the Regional Vice President of the Area.  I called him, and he
> >> was not there, so I left him a detailed message.
> >> Within a half and hour, the General Manager, at the store that I went 
> >> to,
> >> called me back, and it sounded like he was forced to apologize to me, 
> >> he
> >> didn't realize that I left the store, or the fact that I was actually
> >> blind.
> >> I informed him, that I never left the store, but went to get the phone
> >> numbers that I needed, and did shop.  He began to make excuses for
> >> himself, that he was following training procedures, and that he said,
> >> that a service animal must have a harness on or a blanket, or something
> >> indicated that they are working dogs. I also corrected him on that
> >> saying, that is not correct, I can come into this store without a cape,
> >> harness, etc on the dog, and the only thing you can ask me is that a
> >> working dog/service, guide dog, and what service does the dog provide.
> >> He was very patronizing still.
> >> I didn't hear from his Vice President until after 5pm when he was in 
> >> his
> >> car driving home from work.
> >> The man kept saying, that is should be obvious that someone is blind 
> >> and
> >> common sense, but I stated, not always, I do not always wear my dark
> >> glasses, not all blind people are totally blind.  There are also some
> >> people who are not blind that use a service animal, children that are
> >> autistic, diabetic, seizure, deaf, etc.  It is not always a
> >> characteristic of the person, to have something that  identifies them 
> >> as
> >> being disabled, and you are not allowed to ask the disability either.
> >> He also said, that he hates enforcing policy, I said it is not costco's
> >> policy it is the ADA law.  I  was trying to give him our National 
> >> Hotline
> >> for NAGDU, and if anyone every has questions about Guide Dogs, ADA, 
> >> etc,
> >> our Hotline number is 1-888-NAGDU-411 or 1-888-624-3841, that is how I
> >> found out he was on his car phone on the way home, he told me that he
> >> couldn't take the number because he was driving home from work.  Gee, I
> >> was really important to speak to on this. I mentioned that in NY State 
> >> it
> >> is a civil violation of our law, other states have criminal laws in
> >> reference to these violations.
> >> After this, I informed the people who needed to know such as Marion and
> >> Margo.  Mr. Gwizdala, first contact the Costco in his area, and asked
> >> there policy, he was told basically the same thing, as myself, he also
> >> got the corporate information, and has been in talks with Costco in
> >> Seattle. It seems that they are saying that they are a private
> >> organization and that you need to pay a membership to go there and that
> >> they are outside the ADA.
> >> FYI, if that is true, which it is not, then I cannot take my dog to my
> >> gym, it is a private membership, or go to a restaurant you have to pay 
> >> to
> >> eat there, or go to a movie or theater.  So that I couldn't go anywhere
> >> with my dog.
> >> I would say if you are a guide dog user, or even if you use a service
> >> animal, and the laws have changed to what kind of animal is considered 
> >> a
> >> service dog.
> >> It cannot be a comfort dog, it cannot be the dog you carry around in 
> >> your
> >> pocketbook.  It also must be either a dog, or a guide horse, no cats,
> >> birds, snakes, monkeys, etc any more.  You must have a valid medical
> >> disability that you can get one.  So many disabilities and illnesses 
> >> can
> >> qualify for a service animal now.
> >> Stayed tuned for more
> >> Leading the Way in Independent Travel!
> >>
> >> Cheryl Echevarria
> >> http://www.echevarriatravel.com
> >> 631-456-5394
> >> reservations at echevarriatravel.com
> >>
> >> For daily updates read our blog at
> >> http://www.echevarriatravel.wordpress.com
> >>      _______________________________________________
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> >>
> >
> >
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