[vendtalk] Rebates and related

Sun Jul 20 13:43:33 UTC 2014

May I ask if you gentlemen are communicating with the people at the top or who you are communicating with? I have also had issues. I just recently got signed up, but I have already noticed that communication and customer service are major areas of concern.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 20, 2014, at 12:11 AM, Dennis Horn via vendtalk <vendtalk at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> Mike,
> 
> I appreciate your observations.  I felt the same way 6-8 months ago and have
> spent much time detailing your/ my concerns to RSBG, all to no avail.  So I
> am 90% ready to move on.  I hope RSBG can straighten itself out and I will
> gladly return to the fold.
> 
> As you stated, establishing a buying group is a daunting challenge.  It will
> be 1-2 years before any meaningful results can be expected.  That is why we
> have to start small and only expand when the time is right.  There is a
> lesson learned from what RSBG is going through.  John Plummer from
> AmeriSource knew this.  
> 
> I do not think there is anything nefarious about what RSBG is doing.  I
> think it is lack of focus and spreading itself too thin.  The concept is
> incredible and when properly put together is going to change the entire
> vending business.  This I believe sincerely.
> 
> There is a reason for no progress with Coke.  It is my understanding that
> Coke will not offer any sort of incentive to United Strategies Group because
> Canteen has told them us or them, and Coke has chosen Canteen.  I don't
> blame them, business is business.
> 
> As far as a distributor marking up prices tied to their costs be careful.
> They might have an invoice showing they pay a certain price but that is not
> generally what their actual costs are.   They work on incentives similar to
> the rebates we are trying to establish.  I spent over ten years in the
> distributor/ warehouse business and generally their product costs are less
> than any invoiced price, sometimes considerably less.  For example, as a
> Ford Motorcraft warehouse I would be billed $1.14 for a spark plug on the
> invoice.  If I achieved my volume sales goals my actual cost could be as low
> as $.90.  These incentives were paid in the form of a check and were never
> reflected on an invoice.    Another means of lowering the cost to a
> distributor is to offer free product of promotion items which could be sold
> independently.  I won't bore you with the details but I guarantee you that
> any successful warehouse is implementing all of these.
> 
> Thanks again for the input,
> 
> Dennis
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mike Vandervoort [mailto:vandervoorts at sbcglobal.net]
> Sent: Saturday, July 19, 2014 10:54 PM
> To: 'Dennis Horn'; 'Vendor Talk Mailing List'
> Subject: RE: [vendtalk] Rebates and related
> 
> Dennis,
> Thanks for the email.  I, too, have received less, after the merger of RSA
> with USG, this last period.  I, too, have received no accounting.  With no
> accounting transparency, one might conclude that the new company is simply
> taking a larger share while they seem to fail to deliver on what they
> promised to us before any corporate change.  
> 
> I would suggest that if they want our cooperation and membership, then they
> need to be more open and provide and explain the financials in a way that
> makes it clear what we should be getting and what they are making off of our
> buying.  I would also like to know why there is still no progress with Coke.
> 
> 
> Interestingly, one regional food distributor has gone to a pricing system
> that is simply their landed unit cost plus a certain operating percentage by
> type of product.  This allows them to vary pricing as the market price
> swings, but yet keeps their cost and profits as a function of incoming cost.
> This is fairly transparent and helps to explain the rapid change in
> wholesale prices on to the next step in the distribution chain.  Credibility
> and trust are maintained.
> 
> I have no problem with an organization making a percentage off of rebates
> from what I buy, etc., as it takes a lot of overhead, computer work,
> reconciliations, and so on to pull this off on a nationwide basis.  If we
> are truly seen as members and partners contributing to RSA/USG's financial
> well-being, then we need, and should rightly expect, a clear accounting,
> based on facts, not promises, that shows what is happening.  
> 
> You know, one of the first thing one learns in running a company is not to
> promise something that you cannot deliver on.  Credibility is a very
> important quality and one that, I would hope, the RSA/USG marriage would
> strive for.
> 
> Moving on to form another buying group is a daunting challenge but one that
> could be done if the will is there.  Before the divorce is final, though, I
> think I would like to give RSA/USG a chance to reform their ways and get
> real - and provide the facts and be measured by us on their performance to
> plan.  If there are no satisfactory facts forthcoming, then I believe we all
> would then have the answer as to whether independent action to form another
> group is advisable.
> 
> Just my opinion.
> 
> Mike Vandervoort
> Abilene, TX 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: vendtalk [mailto:vendtalk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Dennis Horn
> via vendtalk
> Sent: Saturday, July 19, 2014 5:36 PM
> To: 'Vendor Talk Mailing List'
> Subject: [vendtalk] rebates
> 
> I was probably the foremost proponent of joining the Randolpph Shepard
> buying group(RSBG) but have become completely disillusioned.  Over the past
> eight months I have been in continuous contact with the people at RSBG and
> have been told the tremendous benefits that would come to the participants.
> I checked to see if these promises could possibly be true and found they
> could.  But they haven't.
> 
> 
> 
> I am realizing greater rebates than I received from AmeriSource but not
> close to what I was told to expect.  I keep fairly accurate records and know
> approximately what I should receive.  Last quarter when the numbers did not
> jive, I spent many weeks trying to get a detailed summary of how the rebate
> was determined.  AmeriSource provided this information along with the check.
> When RSBG begrudgingly provided this information I found the rebate I
> received was mostly that for Pepsi.  There were no rebates for Mars, my
> largest rebate in the past, Hershey, Mrs. Freshley's, Cloverhill, Wrigley's,
> etc.
> 
> 
> 
> If it were not for the Pepsi rebate I would have withdrawn from RSBG then
> and there.  I stayed on only after assurances from RSBG that the next
> quarter would be in order and detailed summaries would be provided.  Now the
> 1Q2014 rebates have arrives and my rebate is considerably short of what I
> expected.  Also, I did not receve the promised detailed summary to see if it
> was my mistake or RSBG's.  To top it off, I been ignored is my request for
> an explanation.  I have had enough.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For the past six months a number of operators and myself have considered
> putting together our own buying group.  A number of these operators are
> anxious to get started.  I have prevented this by assuring them that RSBG
> would eventually get its act together and we would all prosper.  But I have
> lost my confidence and trust in RSBG.  So, the journey/ endeavor begins.
> 
> 
> 
> There are some advantages and disadvantages to this endeavor.
> 
> 
> 
> Advantage:
> 
> Minimal fees, I envision a nonprofit buying group that would only deduct
> operating expenses.  We would eliminate the profit taken out by middle men,
> RSGP/ Amerisource.  Eventually, this would be between 5%-10% instead of the
> 25%-30% we are now being assessed.
> 
> 
> 
> Advantage:
> 
> We would be blind operators working for blind operators.  AmeriSource used
> the buying power of the blind to create meaningful rebates which he offered
> to non-blind operators.  
> 
> 
> 
> Disadvantage:
> 
> We would be starting small and may not realized sizable rebates for 1-2
> years.
> 
> 
> 
> Disadvantage:
> 
> Corporate structure.  There has to be a central control. This is why I am
> sending out this message.  We have approximately $2 mil in sales from6-7
> operators in Florida.  This is enough to get started.  If that number can be
> increased to $5 mil, however, every meaningful rebate product source would
> be open to negotiating with us.  We also would be able to join other larger
> vending buying groups.
> 
> 
> 
> There is much more to this.  If you have any desire to join the rebate
> conscious vendors in going down this road please respond to me directly.
> The longest journey begins with the first step.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dennis Horn 
> 
> Presiden
> 
> Blindster Vend
> 
> BlindsterVend.com
> 
> DHorn at blindsterVend.com <mailto:DHorn at blindsterVend.com> 
> 
> 407-242-4395, mobile
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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