[vendtalk] Rebates and related

Mon Jul 21 04:36:46 UTC 2014

Ryan, thanks for your comments.

I have questions unanswered and one email not responded to. In Amerisource
days, communication was better but there were a lot less of us, too. I would
agree that effective communication needs to be improved, one aspect of
partner relations.  I consider this relationship one more of a partnership
than as a simple customer relationship.  As such, that is why I focus on the
financial reporting aspect, one on which strong partnerships are based.  
Mike Vandervoort

-----Original Message-----
From: vendtalk [mailto:vendtalk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ryan Smith
via vendtalk
Sent: Sunday, July 20, 2014 8:44 AM
To: Dennis Horn; Vendor Talk Mailing List
Subject: Re: [vendtalk] Rebates and related

May I ask if you gentlemen are communicating with the people at the top or
who you are communicating with? I have also had issues. I just recently got
signed up, but I have already noticed that communication and customer
service are major areas of concern.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 20, 2014, at 12:11 AM, Dennis Horn via vendtalk
<vendtalk at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> Mike,
> 
> I appreciate your observations.  I felt the same way 6-8 months ago 
> and have spent much time detailing your/ my concerns to RSBG, all to 
> no avail.  So I am 90% ready to move on.  I hope RSBG can straighten 
> itself out and I will gladly return to the fold.
> 
> As you stated, establishing a buying group is a daunting challenge.  
> It will be 1-2 years before any meaningful results can be expected.  
> That is why we have to start small and only expand when the time is 
> right.  There is a lesson learned from what RSBG is going through.  
> John Plummer from AmeriSource knew this.
> 
> I do not think there is anything nefarious about what RSBG is doing.  
> I think it is lack of focus and spreading itself too thin.  The 
> concept is incredible and when properly put together is going to 
> change the entire vending business.  This I believe sincerely.
> 
> There is a reason for no progress with Coke.  It is my understanding 
> that Coke will not offer any sort of incentive to United Strategies 
> Group because Canteen has told them us or them, and Coke has chosen 
> Canteen.  I don't blame them, business is business.
> 
> As far as a distributor marking up prices tied to their costs be careful.
> They might have an invoice showing they pay a certain price but that is
not
> generally what their actual costs are.   They work on incentives similar
to
> the rebates we are trying to establish.  I spent over ten years in the 
> distributor/ warehouse business and generally their product costs are 
> less than any invoiced price, sometimes considerably less.  For 
> example, as a Ford Motorcraft warehouse I would be billed $1.14 for a 
> spark plug on the invoice.  If I achieved my volume sales goals my 
> actual cost could be as low as $.90.  These incentives were paid in the
form of a check and were never
> reflected on an invoice.    Another means of lowering the cost to a
> distributor is to offer free product of promotion items which could be 
> sold independently.  I won't bore you with the details but I guarantee 
> you that any successful warehouse is implementing all of these.
> 
> Thanks again for the input,
> 
> Dennis
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mike Vandervoort [mailto:vandervoorts at sbcglobal.net]
> Sent: Saturday, July 19, 2014 10:54 PM
> To: 'Dennis Horn'; 'Vendor Talk Mailing List'
> Subject: RE: [vendtalk] Rebates and related
> 
> Dennis,
> Thanks for the email.  I, too, have received less, after the merger of 
> RSA with USG, this last period.  I, too, have received no accounting.  
> With no accounting transparency, one might conclude that the new 
> company is simply taking a larger share while they seem to fail to 
> deliver on what they promised to us before any corporate change.
> 
> I would suggest that if they want our cooperation and membership, then 
> they need to be more open and provide and explain the financials in a 
> way that makes it clear what we should be getting and what they are 
> making off of our buying.  I would also like to know why there is still no
progress with Coke.
> 
> 
> Interestingly, one regional food distributor has gone to a pricing 
> system that is simply their landed unit cost plus a certain operating 
> percentage by type of product.  This allows them to vary pricing as 
> the market price swings, but yet keeps their cost and profits as a
function of incoming cost.
> This is fairly transparent and helps to explain the rapid change in 
> wholesale prices on to the next step in the distribution chain.  
> Credibility and trust are maintained.
> 
> I have no problem with an organization making a percentage off of 
> rebates from what I buy, etc., as it takes a lot of overhead, computer 
> work, reconciliations, and so on to pull this off on a nationwide 
> basis.  If we are truly seen as members and partners contributing to 
> RSA/USG's financial well-being, then we need, and should rightly 
> expect, a clear accounting, based on facts, not promises, that shows what
is happening.
> 
> You know, one of the first thing one learns in running a company is 
> not to promise something that you cannot deliver on.  Credibility is a 
> very important quality and one that, I would hope, the RSA/USG 
> marriage would strive for.
> 
> Moving on to form another buying group is a daunting challenge but one 
> that could be done if the will is there.  Before the divorce is final, 
> though, I think I would like to give RSA/USG a chance to reform their 
> ways and get real - and provide the facts and be measured by us on 
> their performance to plan.  If there are no satisfactory facts 
> forthcoming, then I believe we all would then have the answer as to 
> whether independent action to form another group is advisable.
> 
> Just my opinion.
> 
> Mike Vandervoort
> Abilene, TX
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: vendtalk [mailto:vendtalk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of 
> Dennis Horn via vendtalk
> Sent: Saturday, July 19, 2014 5:36 PM
> To: 'Vendor Talk Mailing List'
> Subject: [vendtalk] rebates
> 
> I was probably the foremost proponent of joining the Randolpph Shepard 
> buying group(RSBG) but have become completely disillusioned.  Over the 
> past eight months I have been in continuous contact with the people at 
> RSBG and have been told the tremendous benefits that would come to the
participants.
> I checked to see if these promises could possibly be true and found 
> they could.  But they haven't.
> 
> 
> 
> I am realizing greater rebates than I received from AmeriSource but 
> not close to what I was told to expect.  I keep fairly accurate 
> records and know approximately what I should receive.  Last quarter 
> when the numbers did not jive, I spent many weeks trying to get a 
> detailed summary of how the rebate was determined.  AmeriSource provided
this information along with the check.
> When RSBG begrudgingly provided this information I found the rebate I 
> received was mostly that for Pepsi.  There were no rebates for Mars, 
> my largest rebate in the past, Hershey, Mrs. Freshley's, Cloverhill, 
> Wrigley's, etc.
> 
> 
> 
> If it were not for the Pepsi rebate I would have withdrawn from RSBG 
> then and there.  I stayed on only after assurances from RSBG that the 
> next quarter would be in order and detailed summaries would be 
> provided.  Now the
> 1Q2014 rebates have arrives and my rebate is considerably short of 
> what I expected.  Also, I did not receve the promised detailed summary 
> to see if it was my mistake or RSBG's.  To top it off, I been ignored 
> is my request for an explanation.  I have had enough.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For the past six months a number of operators and myself have 
> considered putting together our own buying group.  A number of these 
> operators are anxious to get started.  I have prevented this by 
> assuring them that RSBG would eventually get its act together and we 
> would all prosper.  But I have lost my confidence and trust in RSBG.  So,
the journey/ endeavor begins.
> 
> 
> 
> There are some advantages and disadvantages to this endeavor.
> 
> 
> 
> Advantage:
> 
> Minimal fees, I envision a nonprofit buying group that would only 
> deduct operating expenses.  We would eliminate the profit taken out by 
> middle men, RSGP/ Amerisource.  Eventually, this would be between 
> 5%-10% instead of the 25%-30% we are now being assessed.
> 
> 
> 
> Advantage:
> 
> We would be blind operators working for blind operators.  AmeriSource 
> used the buying power of the blind to create meaningful rebates which 
> he offered to non-blind operators.
> 
> 
> 
> Disadvantage:
> 
> We would be starting small and may not realized sizable rebates for 
> 1-2 years.
> 
> 
> 
> Disadvantage:
> 
> Corporate structure.  There has to be a central control. This is why I 
> am sending out this message.  We have approximately $2 mil in sales 
> from6-7 operators in Florida.  This is enough to get started.  If that 
> number can be increased to $5 mil, however, every meaningful rebate 
> product source would be open to negotiating with us.  We also would be 
> able to join other larger vending buying groups.
> 
> 
> 
> There is much more to this.  If you have any desire to join the rebate 
> conscious vendors in going down this road please respond to me directly.
> The longest journey begins with the first step.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dennis Horn
> 
> Presiden
> 
> Blindster Vend
> 
> BlindsterVend.com
> 
> DHorn at blindsterVend.com <mailto:DHorn at blindsterVend.com>
> 
> 407-242-4395, mobile
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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