[blindkid] Guide dogs and NFB centers. Was, Please unsubscribe me

H. Field missheather at comcast.net
Wed Jul 7 14:40:17 UTC 2010


Hello Heather,
Two important points.
Firstly, you are assuming that the policy affects the dogs and the
welfare and training. The evidence, based on all those dog owners
who've gone through the programme, does not support your position. You
may like your position a lot and, it may seem to you that you've
thought it through and it makes sense. However, the evidence doesn't
support your position. So, on this one, you are wrong. No harm has
been observed in the level of competence or well-being of guide-dogs
who's owners have taken part in the NFB center programmes.

Secondly, the fact that the NFB holds firm to it's curriculum and some 
folks, because of their objections to the policy, choose not to attend 
is just a fact of life. No one gets to do all the things they want to 
because they choose to avoid certain parts of experiences. Yes, blind 
people missing out on important training opportunities is something 
that we want to avoid. However, the evidence shows that their dogs, 
and the working relationship between dog and human will not be harmed 
by attending an NFB training center. Therefore, if someone voluntarily 
excludes themselves from this training opportunity, then they are 
doing it on the basis of a baseless assumption that this choice will 
harm their dog and working relationship with it. Thus, it is a problem 
created in the mind of the blind consumer and has no basis in reality 
and, as ssuch, is not worth getting upset about.

Regards,

Heather Field

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Heather" <craney07 at rochester.rr.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List,(for parents of blind children)"
<blindkid at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, July 02, 2010 7:14 AM
Subject: Re: [blindkid] Please unsubscribe me


Yes, I have strong feelings about how I run my family, but I would not
require people coming into my house to do something detremental to
their own
family.  It's the underlying phylosophy that is expressed by the
polocy, not
just the polocy.  NFB provides some training that is of a much higher
quality then other centers around, so if the person with the guide dog
wants
that, they must sacrafice a good working team?  That is so wrong on
many
levels.  If the focus is that much on canes, then the center should
put the
best interest of the dog handler team and the dog first, telling the
student
"We have a very cane heavy ciriculum, that would not be served by your
bringing your dog, and while we realize how important it is for you to
use
your guide, we suggest that you contact one of these O and M
instructors
trained by NFB who can provide supplemental cane skills training to
you, in
an abreviated setting, so that you may improve and uphold your cane
skills
while not jepordizing your relationship with your dog."  and or, they
should
offer a blindness skills session just for guide dog users that has all
of
the other skills featured, which one can certainly learn while the dog
is
present, and then the dogs could remain in crate or on tie down for
maybe an
hour or two a day for some cane skills training.  But several months
of this
is just unacceptable.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "H. Field" <missheather at comcast.net>
To: "NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List,(for parents of blind children)"
<blindkid at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2010 11:27 PM
Subject: Re: [blindkid] Please unsubscribe me


> Hi Heather,
> The NFB has set up it's training centers to be a certain kind of
> center. In the same way you have set up your family to be a certain
> kind of family. You have carefully considered your values and your
> approach to parenting your children. If people meet you and make
> friends with you and then decide that they don't like your values or
> parenting methods, you, as would I, simply tell them that they are
> welcome to make other friends with whom they have more in common.
>
> The analogy is useful for considering your apparent thoughts on NFB
> center policies. Nobody is forcing anybody to go to the NFB centers.
> Furthermore, there are numerous choices that blind people can
> choose.
> For some reason, folks want to fight and argue about how the NFB has
> chosen to establish and implement their training center curriculum.
> You are welcome to disagree but why would you, so passionately
> committed to your view on such matters as education, parenting etc.
> appear to be so unwilling to admit the the NFB has every right to
> choose the philosophy and methods which it uses in it's training?
>
> Nobody is forced to attend an NFB center. Also, it is sadly just not
> true that all guide dogs schools insist on great cane skills with
> all
> of their students. Some do, but not all.
>
> It is ironic to me that you appear to have difficulty accepting why
> some folks on the list might take acception to your strong opinions
> when you express them and yet, you are so quick to react negatively
> to
> the NFB centers staff expressing their opinions regarding best
> practice and exercising their right to run whatever kind of private
> enterprise they wish. Though it may not be the choice that you,
> personally would make for,  your, own blindness skills education
> experience, it is undeniable
> that NFB centers are indeed serving a certain portion of the
> population of blind people because people keep going there and at
> least one centter has been in operation for over twenty years. If
> the
> curriculum and attendance criteria are so onerous, these centers
> would
> simply fail for lack of attendees. However, it appears, for a
> significant group of blind people, the NFB centers provide a
> blindness
> skills training experience that they do want, irrespective of the
> rules and stipulations. Why would you want to deny them their right
> to
> choose and a viable choice of training center?
>
> I don't think the reasons you've shared, brief as they have been,
> should send you off our list.
>
> Very warmest regards,
>
> Heather Field
>
>
>
> --- 
> From: "Heather" <craney07 at rochester.rr.com>
> To: "NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List,(for parents of blind children)"
> <blindkid at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2010 8:58 PM
> Subject: Re: [blindkid] Please unsubscribe me
>
>
> Lots of people go to the centers to learn other things, like
> technology
> training, braille, many compitant blind people are great with
> computers but
> can't read braille well or at all, or can live on their own, but
> with
> a
> lower quality of life because of not having such skills as cooking
> with a
> stove vs a microwave, or purchasing clothing that requires any but
> the
> simplest machine washing, because they can't set washers and dryers
> or
> iron,
> etc.  No guide dog school would accept someoone for training if
> their
> cane
> skills were not already very good, so while the institute might
> reasonably
> ask them for a few lessons on some new technique or with a demo of a
> new
> type of cane, to leave their dog in it's crate, not using it at all
> however
> during the training would more or less distroy the dog handler
> relationship
> and potentially the dog, period.  Hope that helps explain better.
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Kim Cunningham" <kim at gulfimagesphoto.com>
> To: " (for parents of blind children)NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List"
> <blindkid at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2010 3:58 PM
> Subject: Re: [blindkid] Please unsubscribe me
>
>
> Heather,
> I have a child who is attending one of the NFB training centers. One
> of the
> many reasons I wanted my daughter to attend the training center was
> to
> receive intensive O&M. I want her to feel free to travel anywhere,
> anytime
> she wants. Why would anyone want to take their guide dog to a
> facility
> where
> you would be learning cane travel? From what I understand, you can
> only get
> a guide dog AFTER you show competent cane travel skills. So, if
> someone
> wishes to attend a program at one of the centers, shouldn't you
> embrace all
> the training while there?
> Just my thoughts on the subject. Have a nice summer.
> Kim
>
>
> --- On Thu, 7/1/10, Heather <craney07 at rochester.rr.com> wrote:
>
>
> From: Heather <craney07 at rochester.rr.com>
> Subject: [blindkid] Please unsubscribe me
> To: "NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List, (for parents of blind children)"
> <blindkid at nfbnet.org>
> Date: Thursday, July 1, 2010, 8:55 AM
>
>
> I always seem to be rubbing someone's fur the wrong way on this
> list,
> and
> that coupled with some disturbing information I have just come
> across
> has
> caused me to wish to unsubscribe from this and one other NFB list
> that
> I was
> on. That one had a link to unsubscribe, but this one directs me to a
> web
> page and I am at school right now, about to go out of town, and need
> to
> catch a bus, so no time to go poking around on the internet, when
> the
> server
> at school is running very sluggishly due to online administration of
> finals
> for summer courses today. Long story very short, I was under the
> impression
> that NFB's antiguidedog sentaments had disipated, but I have just
> spoken
> with two individuals who were being told at an NFB training center
> that
> their dogs had to stay in their rooms and that they were not to use
> them. I
> saw this come up in NAGDU and GDUI lists many many years ago, and
> assumed
> that something so backwards thinking and detremental to guide dog
> teams would have been resolved. You know what they say about
> assumptions.
> Bottom line, I do not feel that I am being an honest and responsible
> advocate of guide dogs if I continue to interact with an
> organization
> that
> premotes such detremental ideas. There are some awsum people on this
> list,
> and everyone, even the people I don't particularly like, all have
> awsum
> kids, it's about the list affiliation, and nothing more. If anyone
> ever
> wishes to write me off list in the future, my email address is
> craney07 at rochester.rr.com. Have a nice summer all.
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