[blindkid] Guide dogs and NFB centers. Was, Please unsubscribe me

[David Andrews]

She has unsubscribed.

Dave

At 09:40 AM 7/7/2010, H. Field wrote:
>Hello Heather,
>Two important points.
>Firstly, you are assuming that the policy affects the dogs and the
>welfare and training. The evidence, based on all those dog owners
>who've gone through the programme, does not support your position. You
>may like your position a lot and, it may seem to you that you've
>thought it through and it makes sense. However, the evidence doesn't
>support your position. So, on this one, you are wrong. No harm has
>been observed in the level of competence or well-being of guide-dogs
>who's owners have taken part in the NFB center programmes.
>
>Secondly, the fact that the NFB holds firm to it's curriculum and some
>folks, because of their objections to the policy, choose not to attend
>is just a fact of life. No one gets to do all the things they want to
>because they choose to avoid certain parts of experiences. Yes, blind
>people missing out on important training opportunities is something
>that we want to avoid. However, the evidence shows that their dogs,
>and the working relationship between dog and human will not be harmed
>by attending an NFB training center. Therefore, if someone voluntarily
>excludes themselves from this training opportunity, then they are
>doing it on the basis of a baseless assumption that this choice will
>harm their dog and working relationship with it. Thus, it is a problem
>created in the mind of the blind consumer and has no basis in reality
>and, as ssuch, is not worth getting upset about.
>
>Regards,
>
>Heather Field
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Heather" <craney07 at rochester.rr.com>
>To: "NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List,(for parents of blind children)"
><blindkid at nfbnet.org>
>Sent: Friday, July 02, 2010 7:14 AM
>Subject: Re: [blindkid] Please unsubscribe me
>
>
>Yes, I have strong feelings about how I run my family, but I would not
>require people coming into my house to do something detremental to
>their own
>family.  It's the underlying phylosophy that is expressed by the
>polocy, not
>just the polocy.  NFB provides some training that is of a much higher
>quality then other centers around, so if the person with the guide dog
>wants
>that, they must sacrafice a good working team?  That is so wrong on
>many
>levels.  If the focus is that much on canes, then the center should
>put the
>best interest of the dog handler team and the dog first, telling the
>student
>"We have a very cane heavy ciriculum, that would not be served by your
>bringing your dog, and while we realize how important it is for you to
>use
>your guide, we suggest that you contact one of these O and M
>instructors
>trained by NFB who can provide supplemental cane skills training to
>you, in
>an abreviated setting, so that you may improve and uphold your cane
>skills
>while not jepordizing your relationship with your dog."  and or, they
>should
>offer a blindness skills session just for guide dog users that has all
>of
>the other skills featured, which one can certainly learn while the dog
>is
>present, and then the dogs could remain in crate or on tie down for
>maybe an
>hour or two a day for some cane skills training.  But several months
>of this
>is just unacceptable.
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "H. Field" <missheather at comcast.net>
>To: "NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List,(for parents of blind children)"
><blindkid at nfbnet.org>
>Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2010 11:27 PM
>Subject: Re: [blindkid] Please unsubscribe me
>
>
> > Hi Heather,
> > The NFB has set up it's training centers to be a certain kind of
> > center. In the same way you have set up your family to be a certain
> > kind of family. You have carefully considered your values and your
> > approach to parenting your children. If people meet you and make
> > friends with you and then decide that they don't like your values or
> > parenting methods, you, as would I, simply tell them that they are
> > welcome to make other friends with whom they have more in common.
> >
> > The analogy is useful for considering your apparent thoughts on NFB
> > center policies. Nobody is forcing anybody to go to the NFB centers.
> > Furthermore, there are numerous choices that blind people can
> > choose.
> > For some reason, folks want to fight and argue about how the NFB has
> > chosen to establish and implement their training center curriculum.
> > You are welcome to disagree but why would you, so passionately
> > committed to your view on such matters as education, parenting etc.
> > appear to be so unwilling to admit the the NFB has every right to
> > choose the philosophy and methods which it uses in it's training?
> >
> > Nobody is forced to attend an NFB center. Also, it is sadly just not
> > true that all guide dogs schools insist on great cane skills with
> > all
> > of their students. Some do, but not all.
> >
> > It is ironic to me that you appear to have difficulty accepting why
> > some folks on the list might take acception to your strong opinions
> > when you express them and yet, you are so quick to react negatively
> > to
> > the NFB centers staff expressing their opinions regarding best
> > practice and exercising their right to run whatever kind of private
> > enterprise they wish. Though it may not be the choice that you,
> > personally would make for,  your, own blindness skills education
> > experience, it is undeniable
> > that NFB centers are indeed serving a certain portion of the
> > population of blind people because people keep going there and at
> > least one centter has been in operation for over twenty years. If
> > the
> > curriculum and attendance criteria are so onerous, these centers
> > would
> > simply fail for lack of attendees. However, it appears, for a
> > significant group of blind people, the NFB centers provide a
> > blindness
> > skills training experience that they do want, irrespective of the
> > rules and stipulations. Why would you want to deny them their right
> > to
> > choose and a viable choice of training center?
> >
> > I don't think the reasons you've shared, brief as they have been,
> > should send you off our list.
> >
> > Very warmest regards,
> >
> > Heather Field
> >
> >
> >
> > ---
> > From: "Heather" <craney07 at rochester.rr.com>
> > To: "NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List,(for parents of blind children)"
> > <blindkid at nfbnet.org>
> > Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2010 8:58 PM
> > Subject: Re: [blindkid] Please unsubscribe me
> >
> >
> > Lots of people go to the centers to learn other things, like
> > technology
> > training, braille, many compitant blind people are great with
> > computers but
> > can't read braille well or at all, or can live on their own, but
> > with
> > a
> > lower quality of life because of not having such skills as cooking
> > with a
> > stove vs a microwave, or purchasing clothing that requires any but
> > the
> > simplest machine washing, because they can't set washers and dryers
> > or
> > iron,
> > etc.  No guide dog school would accept someoone for training if
> > their
> > cane
> > skills were not already very good, so while the institute might
> > reasonably
> > ask them for a few lessons on some new technique or with a demo of a
> > new
> > type of cane, to leave their dog in it's crate, not using it at all
> > however
> > during the training would more or less distroy the dog handler
> > relationship
> > and potentially the dog, period.  Hope that helps explain better.
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Kim Cunningham" <kim at gulfimagesphoto.com>
> > To: " (for parents of blind children)NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List"
> > <blindkid at nfbnet.org>
> > Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2010 3:58 PM
> > Subject: Re: [blindkid] Please unsubscribe me
> >
> >
> > Heather,
> > I have a child who is attending one of the NFB training centers. One
> > of the
> > many reasons I wanted my daughter to attend the training center was
> > to
> > receive intensive O&M. I want her to feel free to travel anywhere,
> > anytime
> > she wants. Why would anyone want to take their guide dog to a
> > facility
> > where
> > you would be learning cane travel? From what I understand, you can
> > only get
> > a guide dog AFTER you show competent cane travel skills. So, if
> > someone
> > wishes to attend a program at one of the centers, shouldn't you
> > embrace all
> > the training while there?
> > Just my thoughts on the subject. Have a nice summer.
> > Kim
> >
> >
> > --- On Thu, 7/1/10, Heather <craney07 at rochester.rr.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> > From: Heather <craney07 at rochester.rr.com>
> > Subject: [blindkid] Please unsubscribe me
> > To: "NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List, (for parents of blind children)"
> > <blindkid at nfbnet.org>
> > Date: Thursday, July 1, 2010, 8:55 AM
> >
> >
> > I always seem to be rubbing someone's fur the wrong way on this
> > list,
> > and
> > that coupled with some disturbing information I have just come
> > across
> > has
> > caused me to wish to unsubscribe from this and one other NFB list
> > that
> > I was
> > on. That one had a link to unsubscribe, but this one directs me to a
> > web
> > page and I am at school right now, about to go out of town, and need
> > to
> > catch a bus, so no time to go poking around on the internet, when
> > the
> > server
> > at school is running very sluggishly due to online administration of
> > finals
> > for summer courses today. Long story very short, I was under the
> > impression
> > that NFB's antiguidedog sentaments had disipated, but I have just
> > spoken
> > with two individuals who were being told at an NFB training center
> > that
> > their dogs had to stay in their rooms and that they were not to use
> > them. I
> > saw this come up in NAGDU and GDUI lists many many years ago, and
> > assumed
> > that something so backwards thinking and detremental to guide dog
> > teams would have been resolved. You know what they say about
> > assumptions.
> > Bottom line, I do not feel that I am being an honest and responsible
> > advocate of guide dogs if I continue to interact with an
> > organization
> > that
> > premotes such detremental ideas. There are some awsum people on this
> > list,
> > and everyone, even the people I don't particularly like, all have
> > awsum
> > kids, it's about the list affiliation, and nothing more. If anyone
> > ever
> > wishes to write me off list in the future, my email address is
> > craney07 at rochester.rr.com. Have a nice summer all.

                         David Andrews:  dandrews at visi.com
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