[blindkid] Tactile Graphics

Wed Jul 17 18:54:32 UTC 2013

I have often said if it isn't important enough for me to learn as a blind
student, than it isn't very important for the rest. I once had a whole math
class not answer a question because I couldn't as the teacher told me in
front of the class not to worry about it. We had already had the discussion
as half us in the class were special ed majors, and we did it. Never again
did that teacher not teach me a concept because it took a little extra work
and single me out of something she thought was important. When I advocate
for kids in meetings I talk about this. If we want this child to succeeded
and this is what you are saying kids of the same age and development need to
succeed than why should this child have less of an opportunity to succeed
especially when things are already often less accessible? 

As usual we've taken a simple question and made it complex. I often wonder
if we should put this dialog in a document for people to use at their IEP
meetings with our titles so these people see from third grader to college
graduate in every field all have the concerns, and why they are important
things to consider for our blind and sighted kids. After all if it isn't
that important why are we wasting resources for the sighted kids?

Bran

-----Original Message-----
From: blindkid [mailto:blindkid-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Arielle
Silverman
Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2013 2:43 PM
To: Blind Kid Mailing List, (for parents of blind children)
Subject: [blindkid] Tactile Graphics

Hi all,

Just to be clear, I'm definitely not in support of omitting any content just
because it is supposedly too "visual" for a blind student to handle. I also
fully understand the significance of tactile graphics for standardized test
performance, and suspect my own math SAT and GRE scores were suppressed to
an extent by my own difficulties interpreting tactile diagrams on the tests.
What I am advocating is that we re-examine how content can be presented in
the most accessible way possible. What is most accessible as a tactile
diagram, and what is most accessible as a verbal description? We need to
figure this out with rigorous research and feedback from blind learners, and
ideally, this investigation would be used to develop standardized test items
too. I hate to see "visual"
problems simply dropped from tests, but I also think that sometimes a
tactile rendering of the print graphic isn't the most accessible
representation either, at least not for all blind learners.

Arielle

On 7/17/13, Richard Holloway <rholloway at gopbc.org> wrote:
> Every time a see a quiz or test come home with "omit" written where 
> someone thought a question was "too visual", this is the exact sort of 
> concern I have. It is much like the "is your child age-appropriate" 
> concept from other discussions we have all had many times.
>
> In this case, is what is being taught through graphics age/stage 
> appropriate. But the question isn't if our KIDS are ready, rather it 
> asks if the TRANSCRIBING is ready. If not now, when? What is going to 
> happen so that our kids all have the same shot to get the same score 
> on the same standardized tests?...
>
> Delaying access to these graphics makes things harder for our kids 
> down the road, and why would I believe that suddenly "next year" they 
> are all going to suddenly be adapted? I'm not buying it...
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jul 17, 2013, at 1:53 PM, Darcirae Hooks <draehooks at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> I was just thinking, that Caiden still has to pass National and state 
>> exams to demonstrate learning. Many of those tests have graphs and 
>> diagrams. So although he may not feel they benefit his learning bc he 
>> can pick the details out of text, he still has to master the same 
>> skills his peers are measured by.
>> So it may not be beneficial to him but the national standards don't 
>> adapt for VI kids.
>>
>> Darci
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Jul 17, 2013, at 12:57, Richard Holloway <rholloway at gopbc.org> wrote:
>>
>>> I just asked my 10-year-old daughter-- she says tactile diagrams 
>>> aren't very useful to her, but I have seen some of the diagrams they 
>>> produce for her at school. They are crude, sloppy things most of the 
>>> time. I have made some better diagrams for her when producing a sort of
"twin vision"
>>> charts for presentations of hers-- things she will show to the 
>>> class, so she needs to be able to identify what the rest of the kids 
>>> will observe visually. She says mine are a bit better than from 
>>> school, but the reason is I spend a LOT of time making them-- too 
>>> much time to be reasonable for casual graphics from day-to-day.
>>>
>>> Again, I don't have a great solution to offer. Kendra does 
>>> underscore that she wants the same charts and graphics available as 
>>> the rest of the kids have though, and I agree. So again, a notetaker 
>>> textbook solution would need some sort of embossed "tactile 
>>> addendum" to accomplish that on any level.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Jul 16, 2013, at 11:43 PM, Arielle Silverman wrote:
>>>
>>>> Agreed, if page numbers are missing and the instruction is to read 
>>>> specific pages or paragraphs that are numbered, this is a problem.
>>>> although it can also be a problem with hard-copy Braille books if 
>>>> the page numbers given are print page numbers and such numbers 
>>>> aren't contained in the Braille book.
>>>> I also agree about open-book quizzes, but maintain that for 
>>>> homework assignments and other "practice" work prior to a test, 
>>>> reading the whole chapter is, in my experience, a more effective 
>>>> learning method than merely skimming. Full reading takes a little 
>>>> more time on the front end, but requires less studying and 
>>>> re-reading later. I advise sighted students against skimming and 
>>>> highlighting in favor of fully reading all the content presented to 
>>>> them. In fact, I credit my inability to skim as a contributing factor
to my academic success.
>>>> Regarding tactile diagrams, this may be a controversial statement, 
>>>> but I personally have found almost all tactile diagrams to be 
>>>> either superfluous or useless, and would have preferred they be 
>>>> either omitted entirely or verbally described. It is very difficult 
>>>> to get the required degree of detail into a tactile diagram that 
>>>> you can get into a print one. Again this is just my opinion, and I 
>>>> am genuinely interested to know if other blind people find tactile 
>>>> diagrams to be worth the trouble of making them. It could also be 
>>>> different for folks who have had useful sight at one point in their 
>>>> lives (I never did). I also think there are a few times when 
>>>> tactile diagrams are beneficial,
>
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