[blindkid] ADA Question Re: Music camp? Another alternative!

Wed Mar 12 17:40:40 UTC 2014

Public schools would be covered much as would publicly-funded colleges or universities under Title II of the ADE.  As such they should have removed certain barriers 20 years ago according to their required Transition Plans.  This would clearly include Braille signage, and has nothing to do with whether a blind child attends or not.  Major rennovations would require ensuring accessibility,but. doesn't directly apply here since achievable barriers should have been done anyway.

I worked in higher ed for nearly 20 years on compliance, etc.  The ADA is as good as the individuals willing to insist on access.  While there has been little in the way of enforcement funding for higher ed, I doubt there's been much at all for K-12.  My impression is that public schools see themselves as providing special services and really can't get their heads around broader issues of accessibility.  They are guilty of navel-gazing in this respect.  They are so willing to help you find your room, Ariel, that they just can't understand that there's any problem, because the problem is not the environment, but with you to begin with.

BTW, the ADA permits phase-in of accessible features, so it can be done over a period of time, this spreading costs over that period.

Dan Burke
Sent from iPhone
Colorado Center for the Blind
303-778-1130 ext. 213
www.cocenter.org<http://www.cocenter.org>

On Mar 12, 2014, at 8:12 AM, "Marianne Denning" <marianne at denningweb.com<mailto:marianne at denningweb.com>> wrote:

Arielle, I believe the ADA states that buildings do not have to be
retrofitted to comply with the law but if the building is remodeled
then it must comply with the ADA.  I also believe we need to do a
better job of requiring braille signage.  Everyone knows about
wheelchair accessibility but I am not sure they know about braille
signage. The law also states that it doesn't matter if a person with a
disability ever comes into the building or not.  Just because there
isn't a blind student in the building doesn't mean there has never
been or ever will be a blind person in the building.  I am a blind TVI
and before that I gave talks at schools all over the city.

On 3/11/14, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com<mailto:arielle71 at gmail.com>> wrote:
Hi Carol,

Thanks for the clarifications about ADA covering the camp. Going
slightly off-topic here, but does ADA mandate Braille signs in school
buildings? If so, why do the vast majority of school buildings I've
frequented lack Braille signs?
Arielle

On 3/11/14, Carol Castellano <carol_castellano at verizon.net<mailto:carol_castellano at verizon.net>> wrote:
That is absolutely right.  At first parents fight for their child,
but they also must be training the child to stand up for him or
herself.  Self-advocacy is a critical skill and knowing our rights
and responsibilities is a part of it.  When parents speak about
blindness, laws, and civil rights our kids are listening and
learning.  We are teaching them the vocabulary and modeling attitudes
that they can then use to advocate for themselves.

Carol

Carol Castellano
Parents of Blind Children-NJ
Director of Programs
National Organization of Parents of Blind Children
973-377-0976
carol_castellano at verizon.net<mailto:carol_castellano at verizon.net>
www.blindchildren.org<http://www.blindchildren.org>
www.nfb.org/parents-and-teachers<http://www.nfb.org/parents-and-teachers>

At 07:27 PM 3/11/2014, you wrote:
Carol, this is great information for parents and students.  Those of
us who are blind adults advocate for ourselves regularly because of
discrimination and I believe it is a critical skill students need to
learn.  Parents are very important advocates for their children but as
your sons anddaughters grow up they need to participate in and
eventually take over advocacy.  The Americans With Disabilities Act is
a very important law that covers us in and out of public schools.
Please learn all you can about this law and help your children
understand it.

On 3/11/14, Carol Castellano <carol_castellano at verizon.net<mailto:carol_castellano at verizon.net>> wrote:
Summer camps are places of public accommodation that fall under the
ADA (except religious camps).  They are not allowed to discriminate
on the basis of disability.  It is against the law.  A person who is
"otherwise capable," meaning who meets the other qualifications of
the camp, such as age or grade or musical interest, cannot be kept
out solely on the basis of his or her disability.

Often when an entity such as a school or camp is discriminating,
those in charge do not realize it.  They might think that they are
only being practical or ensuring safety.  But the law is crystal
clear and the camp administration needs to learn that.  I have used
the phrase, "I'm sure you don't mean to be out of compliance with
federal law..."  I sometimes mention that the family doesn't WANT to
file a complaint with the Office on Civil Rights, but if they have
to, they will...

Ideally, when a disabled person seeks entrance to this kind of place
of public accommodation, a conversation is supposed to take place in
which the camp and the parent/disabled person discuss the
accommodations or modifications that could be made.

There are 3 instances in which the disabled person may be
rejected:  1) if acceptance would cause "undue hardship," defined as
"significant difficulty or expense;" 2) pose a direct threat to the
health or safety of others; or 3) alter the fundamental nature of the
program.

>From a government website http://www.ada.gov/t3hilght.htm :

"Safety requirements may be imposed only if they are necessary for
the safe operation of a place of public accommodation. They must be
based on actual risks and not on mere speculation, stereotypes, or
generalizations about individuals with disabilities."

"A public accommodation must make reasonable modifications in its
policies, practices, and procedures in order to accommodate
individuals with disabilities."

"A public accommodation must provide auxiliary aids and services when
they are necessary to ensure effective communication with individuals
with hearing, vision, or speech impairments.

"Auxiliary aids" include such services or devices as qualified
interpreters, assistive listening headsets, television captioning and
decoders, telecommunications devices for deaf persons (TDD's),
videotext displays, readers, taped texts, brailled materials, and
large print materials."

"The auxiliary aid requirement is flexible. For example, a brailled
menu is not required, if waiters are instructed to read the menu to
blind customers."

Other informative websites:

http://www.pacer.org/publications/adaqa/summer.asp

http://www.acacamps.org/publicpolicy/ada-revisions

Hope this information helps, and GO GET 'EM, Crystal!!!

Carol

Carol Castellano
Parents of Blind Children-NJ
Director of Programs
National Organization of Parents of Blind Children
973-377-0976
carol_castellano at verizon.net<mailto:carol_castellano at verizon.net>
www.blindchildren.org<http://www.blindchildren.org>
www.nfb.org/parents-and-teachers<http://www.nfb.org/parents-and-teachers>
At 01:32 PM 3/9/2014, you wrote:
I just don't think it is right that they are advertising this camp
at his public school and then depending on the type of disability,
pick and choose who can attend. Why this camp? Because his Band
teacher is teaching at it and many of his classmates will be
attending. Everyone is talking about it. The teachers made it a
topic at his IEP meeting, so public school is indeed involved in my
opinion. How can public school allow advertisement of a private camp
that would discriminate against students with disabilities?

What are the camps concerns? That he won't be able to navigate the
camp, that he won't be able to participate in the recreational
activities, and that the camp cannot meet his needs. In my opinion,
they are afraid of blindness in general and have little
understanding of what it means to be blind. I feel the camp would
love for me to go away, that would make it easy for them. I
understand that in order to get into the "club" I need to make them
feel comfortable and play by their rules. Most importantly, Ben will
be paving the way for another blind student in the years to come. As
someone once said, it is he opportunity to be equal, and the right
to be different. That's what were looking for.

Crystal

To: blindkid at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindkid at nfbnet.org>
Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2014 12:35:21 -0400
Subject: Re: [blindkid] Music camp?  Another alternative!

Eric,

Or should we go head strong into that camp and change perspectives
and
understandings? Thinking being an activist  for change is a great
thing
for
this young man to champion.

If he is clear about what he is up against, and he is clear that
there
are
supports in place to at least let him take that chance, pushing the
issue
may be worth it in the end.

Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
Founder and CEO
My Blind Spot, Inc.
90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
New York, New York  10004
www.myblindspot.org<http://www.myblindspot.org>
PH: 917-553-0347

"The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one
who
is
doing it."

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-----Original Message-----
From: blindkid [mailto:blindkid-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
Eric
Calhoun
Sent: Saturday, March 08, 2014 11:30 PM
To: blindkid at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindkid at nfbnet.org>
Subject: [blindkid] Music camp? Another alternative!

Crystal, Eric, someone who knows Braille Music.  Four words for
this
Music
Camp: Get, out, of, here!  They don't want Ben to be independent,
don't
want him there without a chaperone?  Could we back away from this
camp
altogether?

Eric
..

..

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