[blindkid] ADA Question Re: Music camp? Another alternative!

Wed Mar 12 18:05:11 UTC 2014

Dan, thank you for this additional information.  I think parents,
teachers, school administration...don't understand the ADA at all.
Everyone focuses so much on the IEP that other laws are not
considered.  It does take us all frequently reminding schools about
the other laws that protect all of us.

On 3/12/14, Dan Burke <dburke at cocenter.org> wrote:
> Public schools would be covered much as would publicly-funded colleges or
> universities under Title II of the ADE.  As such they should have removed
> certain barriers 20 years ago according to their required Transition Plans.
> This would clearly include Braille signage, and has nothing to do with
> whether a blind child attends or not.  Major rennovations would require
> ensuring accessibility,but. doesn't directly apply here since achievable
> barriers should have been done anyway.
>
> I worked in higher ed for nearly 20 years on compliance, etc.  The ADA is as
> good as the individuals willing to insist on access.  While there has been
> little in the way of enforcement funding for higher ed, I doubt there's been
> much at all for K-12.  My impression is that public schools see themselves
> as providing special services and really can't get their heads around
> broader issues of accessibility.  They are guilty of navel-gazing in this
> respect.  They are so willing to help you find your room, Ariel, that they
> just can't understand that there's any problem, because the problem is not
> the environment, but with you to begin with.
>
> BTW, the ADA permits phase-in of accessible features, so it can be done over
> a period of time, this spreading costs over that period.
>
>
>
> Dan Burke
> Sent from iPhone
> Colorado Center for the Blind
> 303-778-1130 ext. 213
> www.cocenter.org<http://www.cocenter.org>
>
>
>
> On Mar 12, 2014, at 8:12 AM, "Marianne Denning"
> <marianne at denningweb.com<mailto:marianne at denningweb.com>> wrote:
>
> Arielle, I believe the ADA states that buildings do not have to be
> retrofitted to comply with the law but if the building is remodeled
> then it must comply with the ADA.  I also believe we need to do a
> better job of requiring braille signage.  Everyone knows about
> wheelchair accessibility but I am not sure they know about braille
> signage. The law also states that it doesn't matter if a person with a
> disability ever comes into the building or not.  Just because there
> isn't a blind student in the building doesn't mean there has never
> been or ever will be a blind person in the building.  I am a blind TVI
> and before that I gave talks at schools all over the city.
>
> On 3/11/14, Arielle Silverman
> <arielle71 at gmail.com<mailto:arielle71 at gmail.com>> wrote:
> Hi Carol,
>
> Thanks for the clarifications about ADA covering the camp. Going
> slightly off-topic here, but does ADA mandate Braille signs in school
> buildings? If so, why do the vast majority of school buildings I've
> frequented lack Braille signs?
> Arielle
>
> On 3/11/14, Carol Castellano
> <carol_castellano at verizon.net<mailto:carol_castellano at verizon.net>> wrote:
> That is absolutely right.  At first parents fight for their child,
> but they also must be training the child to stand up for him or
> herself.  Self-advocacy is a critical skill and knowing our rights
> and responsibilities is a part of it.  When parents speak about
> blindness, laws, and civil rights our kids are listening and
> learning.  We are teaching them the vocabulary and modeling attitudes
> that they can then use to advocate for themselves.
>
> Carol
>
> Carol Castellano
> Parents of Blind Children-NJ
> Director of Programs
> National Organization of Parents of Blind Children
> 973-377-0976
> carol_castellano at verizon.net<mailto:carol_castellano at verizon.net>
> www.blindchildren.org<http://www.blindchildren.org>
> www.nfb.org/parents-and-teachers<http://www.nfb.org/parents-and-teachers>
>
> At 07:27 PM 3/11/2014, you wrote:
> Carol, this is great information for parents and students.  Those of
> us who are blind adults advocate for ourselves regularly because of
> discrimination and I believe it is a critical skill students need to
> learn.  Parents are very important advocates for their children but as
> your sons anddaughters grow up they need to participate in and
> eventually take over advocacy.  The Americans With Disabilities Act is
> a very important law that covers us in and out of public schools.
> Please learn all you can about this law and help your children
> understand it.
>
> On 3/11/14, Carol Castellano
> <carol_castellano at verizon.net<mailto:carol_castellano at verizon.net>> wrote:
> Summer camps are places of public accommodation that fall under the
> ADA (except religious camps).  They are not allowed to discriminate
> on the basis of disability.  It is against the law.  A person who is
> "otherwise capable," meaning who meets the other qualifications of
> the camp, such as age or grade or musical interest, cannot be kept
> out solely on the basis of his or her disability.
>
> Often when an entity such as a school or camp is discriminating,
> those in charge do not realize it.  They might think that they are
> only being practical or ensuring safety.  But the law is crystal
> clear and the camp administration needs to learn that.  I have used
> the phrase, "I'm sure you don't mean to be out of compliance with
> federal law..."  I sometimes mention that the family doesn't WANT to
> file a complaint with the Office on Civil Rights, but if they have
> to, they will...
>
> Ideally, when a disabled person seeks entrance to this kind of place
> of public accommodation, a conversation is supposed to take place in
> which the camp and the parent/disabled person discuss the
> accommodations or modifications that could be made.
>
> There are 3 instances in which the disabled person may be
> rejected:  1) if acceptance would cause "undue hardship," defined as
> "significant difficulty or expense;" 2) pose a direct threat to the
> health or safety of others; or 3) alter the fundamental nature of the
> program.
>
> From a government website http://www.ada.gov/t3hilght.htm :
>
> "Safety requirements may be imposed only if they are necessary for
> the safe operation of a place of public accommodation. They must be
> based on actual risks and not on mere speculation, stereotypes, or
> generalizations about individuals with disabilities."
>
> "A public accommodation must make reasonable modifications in its
> policies, practices, and procedures in order to accommodate
> individuals with disabilities."
>
> "A public accommodation must provide auxiliary aids and services when
> they are necessary to ensure effective communication with individuals
> with hearing, vision, or speech impairments.
>
> "Auxiliary aids" include such services or devices as qualified
> interpreters, assistive listening headsets, television captioning and
> decoders, telecommunications devices for deaf persons (TDD's),
> videotext displays, readers, taped texts, brailled materials, and
> large print materials."
>
> "The auxiliary aid requirement is flexible. For example, a brailled
> menu is not required, if waiters are instructed to read the menu to
> blind customers."
>
> Other informative websites:
>
> http://www.pacer.org/publications/adaqa/summer.asp
>
> http://www.acacamps.org/publicpolicy/ada-revisions
>
> Hope this information helps, and GO GET 'EM, Crystal!!!
>
> Carol
>
> Carol Castellano
> Parents of Blind Children-NJ
> Director of Programs
> National Organization of Parents of Blind Children
> 973-377-0976
> carol_castellano at verizon.net<mailto:carol_castellano at verizon.net>
> www.blindchildren.org<http://www.blindchildren.org>
> www.nfb.org/parents-and-teachers<http://www.nfb.org/parents-and-teachers>
> At 01:32 PM 3/9/2014, you wrote:
> I just don't think it is right that they are advertising this camp
> at his public school and then depending on the type of disability,
> pick and choose who can attend. Why this camp? Because his Band
> teacher is teaching at it and many of his classmates will be
> attending. Everyone is talking about it. The teachers made it a
> topic at his IEP meeting, so public school is indeed involved in my
> opinion. How can public school allow advertisement of a private camp
> that would discriminate against students with disabilities?
>
> What are the camps concerns? That he won't be able to navigate the
> camp, that he won't be able to participate in the recreational
> activities, and that the camp cannot meet his needs. In my opinion,
> they are afraid of blindness in general and have little
> understanding of what it means to be blind. I feel the camp would
> love for me to go away, that would make it easy for them. I
> understand that in order to get into the "club" I need to make them
> feel comfortable and play by their rules. Most importantly, Ben will
> be paving the way for another blind student in the years to come. As
> someone once said, it is he opportunity to be equal, and the right
> to be different. That's what were looking for.
>
> Crystal
>
>
> To: blindkid at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindkid at nfbnet.org>
> Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2014 12:35:21 -0400
> Subject: Re: [blindkid] Music camp?  Another alternative!
>
> Eric,
>
> Or should we go head strong into that camp and change perspectives
> and
> understandings? Thinking being an activist  for change is a great
> thing
> for
> this young man to champion.
>
> If he is clear about what he is up against, and he is clear that
> there
> are
> supports in place to at least let him take that chance, pushing the
> issue
> may be worth it in the end.
>
> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
> Founder and CEO
> My Blind Spot, Inc.
> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
> New York, New York  10004
> www.myblindspot.org<http://www.myblindspot.org>
> PH: 917-553-0347
>
> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one
> who
> is
> doing it."
>
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>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindkid [mailto:blindkid-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
> Eric
> Calhoun
> Sent: Saturday, March 08, 2014 11:30 PM
> To: blindkid at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindkid at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: [blindkid] Music camp? Another alternative!
>
> Crystal, Eric, someone who knows Braille Music.  Four words for
> this
> Music
> Camp: Get, out, of, here!  They don't want Ben to be independent,
> don't
> want him there without a chaperone?  Could we back away from this
> camp
> altogether?
>
> Eric
> ..
>
> ..
>
> Sighted and blind people, Eric from Los Angeles.  Here's where you
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> --
> Marianne Denning, TVI, MA
> Teacher of students who are blind or visually impaired
> (513) 607-6053
>
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> Teacher of students who are blind or visually impaired
> (513) 607-6053
>
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Marianne Denning, TVI, MA
Teacher of students who are blind or visually impaired
(513) 607-6053