[BlindMath] BlindMath Digest, Vol 158, Issue 3

Sun Sep 15 07:19:41 UTC 2019

As of recentt NVDA versions, we support reading thousands of Unicode
symbols. Of course, I recommend using punctuation level of all.

On Fri, Sep 13, 2019 at 7:59 AM Steve Jacobson via BlindMath <
blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:

> Elizabeth,
>
> I have limited exposure to VoiceOver on the MAC having spent most of my
> life in the Windows world.  Still, I have come to the position that one
> can't flat out say that one system is better than the other, they are
> different.  There are clearly some things that VoiceOver does better than
> do screen readers in the Windows environment, but there cases where the
> same can be said of the Windows world.  Having said all this, are you
> saying in your note below that Windows screen readers can't do such things
> as reading technical symbols?  I think that capability is in both platforms
> but it can depend upon which software that one uses to some degree.  I
> would truly like to understand this more completely.  To be clear, I am
> really glad we have the support that exists on the MAC.  It provides a
> valuable alternative, and as you say, there are cases where it is the
> platform of choice for certain careers.  I have done a good deal of audio
> editing in Windows for a good number of years now, but I am hoping to get
> some exposure to how it is done on the MAC, because I've heard that certain
> aspects are easier.  However, even with my first name, I am no "Stevie
> wonder."  <smile>,
>
> Best regards,
>
> Steve Jacobson
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: BlindMath <blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Pyatt,
> Elizabeth J via BlindMath
> Sent: Friday, September 13, 2019 8:06 AM
> To: Susan.Kelmer at colorado.edu; blindmath at nfbnet.org
> Cc: Pyatt, Elizabeth J <ejp10 at psu.edu>
> Subject: [BlindMath] Fwd: BlindMath Digest, Vol 158, Issue 3
>
> Susan:
>
> I worked with two students now who are on VoiceOver/Mac and who really
> prefer it over JAWS/NVDA. One is hoping to go into sound production and
> that environment is extremely Mac dependent. In fact an Apple commercial
> features Stevie Wonder using VoiceOver and a digital music program before
> he sings with Audra Day.
>
> It’s true that the Mac won’t work with MathML in Word, but will read it in
> an HTML document. Fortunately, the Central Washington CAR tool
> https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.cwu.edu%2Fcentral-access%2Freader&data=02%7C01%7C%7Caf4784f3fc5a4141400f08d7384b552c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637039768513669503&sdata=lBAP5CZLBXp6GMKvx9JDg3d6Qh2JyxTFQ7iutgXgE4A%3D&reserved=0
> (Windows) can convert an accessible Word document with MathType embedded
> equations to HTML with usable MathML.
>
> What I really love about VoiceOver though is its default support for
> technical symbols (the minus sign, negative numbers, math operators, Greek
> letters, logic symbols, arrows). When an expression is just one line, we
> can often write it out as plain text for VoiceOver students, but would need
> to convert it to MathML/MathType for JAWS/NVDA.
>
> For a Stats course, we learned to supplement that with ASCII math
> expressions like x-bar, h0 (h sub 0), x^y (x to the y) to avoid using
> MathML except for extremely complicated equations.
>
> Of course, the student will likely need to learn VoiceOver someday, but it
> is actually very powerful. Since so many computer scientists use Mac/Unix
> combinations, I understand why he wants to stay on that platform.
>
> Apple has some good VoiceOver training materials at
>
> https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fhelp.apple.com%2Fvoiceover%2Fmac%2F10.14%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7Caf4784f3fc5a4141400f08d7384b552c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637039768513669503&sdata=x65%2FiTrv%2FTsA0yZU7aSWzy%2FRKn6s%2Bx%2BbnkYYH1TXJtM%3D&reserved=0
>
> The interface is definitely different from JAWS/NVDA, but once you work
> with it a bit, it really does have some nice features. For one thing, it
> can highlight the text its reading which could help low vision users make a
> transition. At some point, learning to use JAWS/NVDA is also useful when
> that’s the best options.
>
> Hope this is useful.
>
> P.S. Full disclosure, I am a sighted Mac user, but am able to also use
> Windows as needed for producing ALT formats.
>
> Begin forwarded message:
>
> From: blindmath-request at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindmath-request at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: BlindMath Digest, Vol 158, Issue 3
> Date: September 13, 2019 at 8:00:01 AM EDT
> To: blindmath at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindmath at nfbnet.org>
> Reply-To: blindmath at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindmath at nfbnet.org>
>
> From: BlindMath <blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:
> blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org>> On Behalf Of Susan Kelmer via
> BlindMath
> Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2019 12:36 PM
> To: blindmath at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindmath at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Susan Kelmer <Susan.Kelmer at colorado.edu<mailto:
> Susan.Kelmer at colorado.edu>>
> Subject: [BlindMath] Low vision student wanting to hear math on a Mac
>
> I've been on this list for several years and read much of what you post,
> and
> have learned a lot.  I'm an alternate format provider for students at the
> University of Colorado, and I have a new problem and don't know how to help
> my student.
>
> He is a math and computer science major with low vision and refuses to move
> to a Windows machine or to use a screen reader.  He has familiarity with
> Voiceover on his Mac.  He has some vision and has gotten through math in
> the
> past with enlargements, but he's reached a point in his college career
> where
> this is just not going to be enough.
>
> I'm creating math-enabled files, that can be read easily on a Windows
> machine, but I'm not having any luck getting this to work on a Mac.  I've
> tried epub3, which works but doesn't read all the characters in an
> equation.
> I've tried just using a mathml file (I get a javascript error when I try to
> open it in Safari and then it opens the file but all the math is missing),
> I've tried straight-up word files with Mathtype.  Nothing is working.  I
> can't seem to adjust the verbosity settings on voiceover to anything but
> "all" or "some" but no fine tuning.  So while it reads the math it puts in
> a
> lot of extra stuff if I am using the "all" setting, and doesn't read the
> basics (like parenthesis) if I set it to "some."  I am creating all files
> in
> Word with Mathtype on a PC.
>
> Any suggestions for me and my student?
>
> Susan Kelmer
> Alternate Format Production Program Manager
> Disability Services
> University of Colorado Boulder
> 303-735-4836
>
> =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
> Elizabeth J. Pyatt, Ph.D.
> Accessibility IT Consultant
> ejp10 at psu.edu<mailto:ejp10 at psu.edu>
>
> The 300 Building, 112
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>
>
>
>
>
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-- 

Derek Riemer: Improving the world one byte at a time!

   - University of Colorado Boulder Department of computer science, 4th
   year undergraduate student.
   - Accessibility enthusiast.
   - Proud user of the NVDA screen reader.
   - Open source enthusiast.
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Personal website <http://derekriemer.com>