[humanser] Jury finds IA Dept. for Blind's guide dog policy does not discriminate
James Brown
jbrown321 at comcast.net
Fri Feb 20 23:31:59 UTC 2009
Hello Marion,
I totally agree that they should have the right to teach the way they see
fit as long as no public dollars are being used. However, since the state
was arguing their case, I have a strong hunch public funding is used for the
program.
But Marion, are you saying we shouldn't question just because a standard is
already established? Aren't certain standards more valid than others?
I think this case may be more about what was in between the lines. From
what I read, it seemed that I detected a slight hint of superiority of cane
users verses dog users.listen to the below statement from the attorney.
>>> "The Department for the Blind, which
>>> was represented in the trial by the Iowa
>>> Attorney General, argued that a totally
>>> non-visual approach - and training without
>>> assistance of a guide-dog or other visual aids -
>>> is the most effective approach for
>>> visually-impaired persons who are learning skills
>>> and techniques for dealing with blindness."
Is this a true statement? This is the crux of my inquiry.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Marion & Martin" <swampfox1833 at verizon.net>
To: "Human Services Mailing List" <humanser at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 2:12 PM
Subject: Re: [humanser] Jury finds IA Dept. for Blind's guide dog policy
does not discriminate
> Shannon,
> I will refer back to my earlier message regarding whether or not
> schools require O&M instruction before being accepted for training. As to
> your other question about substituting one O&M instruction for another,
> perhaps an analogy from our mutual experience will help.
> I notice you have an MSW. I have an MS in Mental Health Counseling. In
> my undergraduate program I took a Research Methods class. I also took a
> Research Methods class in graduate school. now, I could have argued with
> the school that I had already had Research Methods and didn't need to take
> it again. Of course, my arguments would not have been accepted as the
> requirement to take their class is part of their program. Furthermore, the
> level, scope, and complexity of the class was very different in graduate
> school than it was in undergraduate classes. Can you understand how this
> applies to this issue?
>
> Fraternally,
> Marion
>
> We are both
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Shannon Cook" <SCook at sccb.sc.gov>
> To: "'Human Services Mailing List'" <humanser at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 9:10 AM
> Subject: Re: [humanser] Jury finds IA Dept. for Blind's guide dog policy
> does not discriminate
>
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Isn't it true though, that in order to get a guide dog, an individual has
>> to have good mobility skills with a cane and have their application
>> signed by an O & M instructor? If they have already gone through the
>> mobility portion of training and received a guide dog, why then would it
>> be necessary to go back to an unchosen method of travel? Why not just
>> have them not take that particular class?
>>
>> That is my 2 cents.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Shannon Cook, MSW
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: humanser-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:humanser-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf Of Doug Lee
>> Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 11:20 PM
>> To: Human Services Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [humanser] Jury finds IA Dept. for Blind's guide dog policy
>> does not discriminate
>>
>> That one could start quite a discussion of course... but from the
>> perspective of the case, these are not even the relevant questions.
>> The training center teaches classes, and one of those is a travel
>> class, and the travel class teaches cane skills, not dog skills. Just
>> as you don't go to a driving class to learn how to fly an airplane,
>> you don't go to a cane school to learn guide dog use. The school has
>> the right to choose what skills to teach, and the student has the
>> right to take what the school has to offer and the right not to. Of
>> course, the student also has the right to visit the school with cane
>> or dog at any time visitation is possible I'm sure. :)
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 09:27:10PM -0600, James Brown wrote:
>>> Hello all,
>>>
>>> Can you share some knowledge with someone who has always been a cane
>>> user?
>>>
>>> Setting aside all the legalities, what does everyone think about this
>>> case? Any die hard cane users out there? How about you guide dog
>>> lovers,
>>> what do you think?
>>>
>>> Is there a significant difference between using a cane or dog? Is
>>> either
>>> one really that perfect?
>>>
>>> Are we trying to shape other blind people into our own image, all the
>>> while damaging the individuality of the blind population?
>>>
>>> whether it's a stick or a dog, aren't we all depending on something?
>>>
>>> Is this a kind of twisted psychology, or is it more about being
>>> practical?
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks in advance,
>>> JB
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wilson,Joanne (by way of David
>>> Andrews <dandrews at visi.com>)" <JWilson at nfb.org>
>>> To: <david.andrews at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 4:24 PM
>>> Subject: [humanser] Jury finds IA Dept. for Blind's guide dog policy
>>> does
>>> not discriminate
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ----------
>>> From: Brammer, Robert [AG] [mailto:rbrammer at ag.state.ia.us]
>>> Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 1:53 PM
>>> To: Brammer, Robert [AG]
>>> Subject: Atty. Gen. release: Jury finds IA Dept.
>>> for Blind's guide dog policy does not discriminate
>>>
>>> To News Editors. From Bob Brammer (Iowa
>>> Attorney General's Office - 515-281-6699.)
>>> Please find a release pasted below. This will be
>>> posted soon at
>>> <http://www.iowaattorneygeneral.org/>www.IowaAttorneyGeneral.org
>>> . A jury entered a verdict Wednesday in this
>>> case in Polk County District Court.
>>> Best regards, Bram
>>> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> For immediate release - Thursday, February 19, 2009.
>>> Contact Bob Brammer - 515-281-6699
>>>
>>> Jury finds Iowa Department for the Blind's
>>> Guide Dog Policy Does Not Discriminate
>>>
>>> Des Moines. A Polk County jury has
>>> rejected a Des Moines woman's claim that the
>>> State of Iowa Department for the Blind
>>> discriminated against her by refusing her request
>>> to use a guide dog while she attended the
>>> Department's orientation and adjustment training program.
>>>
>>> The Department for the Blind
>>> orientation and training program is a
>>> comprehensive program that utilizes a totally
>>> non-visual approach to teaching blindness
>>> skills. Students with partial vision are
>>> required to wear eyeshades to prevent reliance
>>> upon any visual cues during training. Department
>>> policies prohibit the use of any visual aids
>>> within the orientation and training program,
>>> including guide dogs. The Department has no
>>> objection to guide dogs in other situations.
>>>
>>> Stephanie Dohmen, who is legally
>>> blind, attended the program for several months
>>> beginning in September 2000 and sought to
>>> re-enter the program in June 2002 accompanied by her guide dog.
>>>
>>> Dohmen claimed in her lawsuit that
>>> the Department's policy violated her rights under
>>> the Iowa Civil Rights Act and under federal laws
>>> that prohibit discrimination on the basis of disability.
>>>
>>> After a six-day trial, the
>>> eight-person jury rejected Dohmen's claims in a verdict entered
>>> Wednesday.
>>>
>>>
>>> The Department for the Blind, which
>>> was represented in the trial by the Iowa
>>> Attorney General, argued that a totally
>>> non-visual approach - and training without
>>> assistance of a guide-dog or other visual aids -
>>> is the most effective approach for
>>> visually-impaired persons who are learning skills
>>> and techniques for dealing with blindness.
>>>
>>> The Department places no limitations
>>> upon the use of guide dogs in other settings,
>>> including in the Department for the Blind
>>> building in downtown Des Moines. For example,
>>> Karen Keninger, the Director of the Department,
>>> uses a guide dog, and the dog accompanied
>>> Keninger during her testimony at the trial.
>>>
>>> The orientation program typically
>>> includes about six months of full-time training
>>> in various problem-solving skills, such as
>>> cane-travel on public streets, using Braille,
>>> using computers, and dealing with many other situations.
>>>
>>> The Department for the Blind's
>>> orientation and adjustment program was
>>> established in 1959 and is considered by many to
>>> be one of the most effective in the country.
>>>
>>> During the trial, the State
>>> Department for the Blind presented testimony from
>>> Joanne Wilson and Frederic K. Schroeder, each a
>>> former Commissioner of the U.S. Rehabilitation
>>> Services Administration, which oversees programs
>>> for the blind around the country.
>>>
>>> "Iowa's orientation program
>>> profoundly changes lives," said Wilson, who also
>>> is Executive Director of the National Federation
>>> of the Blind. "It works. It's a cutting-edge
>>> program and a model for other states." Wilson is
>>> a Webster City native and ISU graduate who went
>>> through the Iowa Department for the Blind's orientation program herself.
>>>
>>> Schroeder said: "To me the central
>>> point is that individuals have a choice in the
>>> type of training they take. While programs must
>>> and should make reasonable accommodations, they
>>> cannot be required to alter the fundamentals of the program."
>>>
>>> - 30 -
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>
>> --
>> Doug Lee dgl at dlee.org http://www.dlee.org
>> SSB BART Group doug.lee at ssbbartgroup.com
>> http://www.ssbbartgroup.com
>> Freedom is not the ability to have what we want. Freedom is merely the
>> ability to seek it. To be free defines what we can do, not what we can
>> get.
>> (03/28/05)
>>
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