[Mn-abs] Freedom for the Blind

[Kelby Carlson]

That's good to know.  I'm already applying to colleges and 
auditioning for music scholarships, so I'm not sure I'll attend a 
training center.  I simply don't know when I thd have the time, 
and I'm not convinced I have the need.  (I'm not saying I'm all 
that special, just that I was raised very mainstream in a normal 
family and have a big skill-set.)

> ----- Original Message -----
>From: "Steve Jacobson" <steve.jacobson at visi.com
>To: "Minnesota Association of Blind Students List" 
<mn-abs at nfbnet.org
>Date sent: Thu, 06 Jan 2011 21:13:02 -0600 (CST)
>Subject: Re: [Mn-abs] Freedom for the Blind

>Kelby,

>If you got a cane when you were one year old, you definitely 
benefited from the work we did in the 1970's and 1980's
>to get canes into the hands of younger kids.

>Perhaps others can answer this question better than I, but I 
would say that most blind pdople spend some time in a
>training center after high school.  Some of the time would be 
used to brush up and solidify the skills you already have,
>and if you already have good skills in some areas, more time can 
be spent on areas where more work would be
>helpful.  This is the time in your life when you have the most 
flexibility to do something like this.  I don't know your
>background but others here know you better and might be able to 
give you a more personalized answer.

>Best regards,

>Steve Jacobson

>On Thu, 06 Jan 2011 17:23:44 -0600 (CST), Kelby Carlson wrote:

>>Steve,

>>Just to clarify.  I received a cane when I was only one year old,
>>and have been using one all of my life.  Using the cane itself is
>>very natural.  I simply need to become more accustomed to walking
>>by myself, which I have done but would like to do more.

>>I really think I'm getting your position on pushing for change.
>>Working in groups myself, I know how essential working in that
>>kind of a frame of mind is.

>>Here's a question I'd like to pose to the list, though I don't
>>know if the answers will change my mind.  It's been suggested to
>>me that I should attend a training center for a several month
>>period, but I'm really not sure that's necessary at this point.
>>Yes, there are areas in my life that need to be more independent.
>>I suspect that will happen when I begin college, as I am
>>naturally an advocate for myself and usually just require a nudge
>>if that.  I've been trained in mobility and technology and am
>>proficient.  My daily living skills could perhaps be imprved, but
>>I believe the same could be said of most high school students.
>>What do you guys think?

>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>From: "Steve Jacobson" <steve.jacobson at visi.com
>>>To: "Minnesota Association of Blind Students List"
>><mn-abs at nfbnet.org
>>>Date sent: Thu, 06 Jan 2011 16:37:52 -0600 (CST)
>>>Subject: Re: [Mn-abs] Freedom for the Blind

>>>Keldy,

>>>While I think that we have learned to try to explain our
>>positions more rather than just lay them out, I don't think that
>>we have ever been as inflexible as
>>>some made us out to be.  Often, I have heard it explained that
>>blind people come to the Federation and are then all taught to
>>jump to the beat of a single
>>>drum.  What I don't think some have understood is that most of us
>>have become a part of the NFB because we found something there
>>that reinforced what
>>>we already thought.  After joining, I certainly learned things
>>that changed my mind on some issues, but I also worked within the
>>organization to change other
>>>minds as well.  I used a folding cane for a good while into my
>>membership in the NFB, and there were those who told me I should
>>use a straight cane.  At
>>>that point, their approach didn't work for me because partly they
>>never explained why, and partly because nobody was going to tell
>>me what to do even
>>>though I was a committed member.  <smile>  It took standing in
>>the middle of Hennepin with that little piece of pipe to change
>>my mind.  Some have
>>>believed that we never debate.  They have not been at some of our
>>conventions or read some of our e-mail lists.  However, we try
>>hard to pull together
>>>once a decision is made.  I will support an issue in terms of
>>working for the NFB even if I voted against it knowing that means
>>others who may not support
>>>an issue of mine will do the same when the vote goes my way.
>>Some see that as inflexibility.  I think, though, that you will
>>find that each of us has taken a
>>>different path to get to where we are now, and that our reasons
>>for being here include getting encouragement ourselves, having a
>>place to go with our
>>>questions, and to gry to make life better for those blind people
>>who come after us.

>>>I did not know that "sighted guide" is now being taught to be
>>used in conjunction with the cane.  When I learned it, one was
>>specifically told to remain a
>>>step or so behind the person whose arm one had to give oneself
>>warning that a step up or down was coming.  One would feel the
>>elbow rise or fall giving
>>>one a little time to react.  I am glad to see that has apparently
>>changed, and who knows, we may have affected that on some level.
>>During my lifetime, I
>>>can remember when we were considered to be crazy to think that
>>the cane should be given to elementary students.  Some even felt
>>that middleschool or
>>>junior was too soon for the cane.  Stil, it has become pretty
>>mainstream to introduce kids to canes when they are young, now.
>>Some issues such as getting
>>>canes to kids we advocated for a long time and we felt it was
>>important enough to push.  Some could have seen that as
>>inflexible, but it was the only way to
>>>get thinking to change.

>>>You asked about walking less using sighted guide.  What I have
>>found over time is that I am more aware of my surroundings when I
>>am not walking sighted
>>>guide.  If someone is showing me around a college campus, for
>>example, I will retain a lot more if I am walking with the person
>>but walking independently.
>>>That may not be true for everyone, but it is for me.  Using a
>>cane and refining those skills requires some instruction as you
>>have already had, but practice is
>>>what will make using a cane second nature for you.  The more you
>>use it, the more natural it will all feel.  There are going to be
>>times when it is simply more
>>>practical to walk sighted guide with someone, but what I always
>>wanted to shoot for was knowing that I was choosing to walk with
>>someone rather than
>>>feeling I couldn't do it any other way.  In my case, I had to
>>force myself to walk alone more, especially in the beginning, so
>>that I could build my confidence
>>>as a traveler and have the use of a cane feel natural.  It didn't
>>mean that I never took an arm, but it was something I tried to
>>keep in the forefront of my mind.
>>>If I found that it was a pattern to walk with someone when I went
>>to a certain place, I would try to find a reason to do it alone
>>sometime or to at least walk
>>>separately so that I would know I could do it.

>>>In short, I think that the picture sometimes painted of NFB
>>members has been wrong, but there is also no doubt that we have
>>worked hard to change some
>>>things and change isn't always easy for some to accept.  I hope
>>you keep asking questions here.  It is good for all of us.

>>>Best regards,

>>>Steve Jacobson

>>>On Thu, 06 Jan 2011 10:04:29 -0600 (CST), Kelby Carlson wrote:

>>>>Steve,

>>>>Thank you so much for your thoughtful, well-considered and
>>>>articulate response to my questions.  I'll be candid here.  I've
>>>>been, for a long while, somewhat innoculated against the NFB
>>>>because of what some perceive to be their faults.  (One of which
>>>>is lack of compromise and inflexibility.) It is obvious from
>>>>talking to people on this list and from beginning to read NFB
>>>>literature, that this is most definitely not the case.  My
>>>>mobility training has been very good.  Humorously enough, when I
>>>>was trained to use sighted guide as a child I have always been
>>>>trained to use my cane while taking someone's arm.  I did not
>>>>even realize, until you said something, that blind people would
>>>>use sighted guide without the use of their cane.  However, I have
>>>>begun to believe that I must decrease my use of sighted guide.  I
>>>>want to be as independent a traveler as I can, and I believe
>>>>learning to follow independently is an important skill.  I
>>>>attended the Circle of Life Science Camp in 2005, and gained
>>>>knowledge of doing this.  Do you think beginning to practice this
>>>>more would be a good idea?

>>>>I actually decided to request a white cane this morning, and I'm
>>>>very excited to begin experimenting with it.  I also applied for
>>>>a mentor on NFB link so I easily ask questions like this and
>>>>start to network.  It's rather amazing how empowering taking
>>>>these simple steps can feel.

>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>From: "Steve Jacobson" <steve.jacobson at visi.com
>>>>>To: "Minnesota Association of Blind Students List"
>>>><mn-abs at nfbnet.org
>>>>>Date sent: Thu, 06 Jan 2011 09:41:14 -0600 (CST)
>>>>>Subject: Re: [Mn-abs] Freedom for the Blind

>>>>>Keldy,

>>>>>To some degree, whether you use a folding cane or straight cane,
>>>>and even the length you use, is a personal preference.  If you
>>>>have already given some
>>>>>thought, as you indicate, as to whether using a folding cane
>>>>hides your blindness, I think you are off to a good start.

>>>>>I remember clearly the day I decided I was going to no longer use
>>>>a folding cane as my main cane.  It was winter, and I was
>>>>crossing Hennepin Avenue at
>>>>>Seventh Street in downtown Minneapolis.  I even remember I was on
>>>>the south side of Seventh walking west.  About half way across
>>>>Hennepin, my cane
>>>>>suddenly became noticeably lighter.  A half second later, I heard
>>>>the clattering and rolling of small pipes on the surface of
>>>>Hennepin.  It took a second for me
>>>>>to put the two observations together that my folding cane had
>>>>broken, and what I was hearing were the sections of my folding
>>>>cane hitting the street and
>>>>>rolling away from me.  There I was, standing in the middle of
>>>>Hennepin Avenue during rush hour with a 12-inch piece of pipe in
>>>>my hand.  Needless to say, I
>>>>>did get across the street, and some others assisted me in
>>>>tracking down the sections of my cane that I hadn't found myself.
>>>>I managed to temporarily get my
>>>>>cane to stay together until I got back to my college dorm.

>>>>>Even with this experience, though, I have used a folding cane on
>>>>several occasions since.  Even the telescoping canes, which would
>>>>not have likely
>>>>>broken as did the one I described above, are much more likely to
>>>>be broken when people trip over them because the section nearest
>>>>the ground is thinner.
>>>>>This has happened to me on a number of occasions.  Still, I do
>>>>keep a telescoping cane as a backup when I travel.

>>>>>Dave Andrews has described how to get a cane into and out of a
>>>>car, and he has mentioned placing it between the seat and the
>>>>window on an airplane.
>>>>>The fact is that the airlines probably would prefer it if we
>>>>would all use folding canes, but the regulations do permit canes
>>>>to be placed between the seat and
>>>>>the window if it can be made to lay next to the body of the plane
>>>>without sticking up.  There is a bit of a trick to doing this,
>>>>too, but one masters it fairly
>>>>>quickly.  I find if I get my cane situated right away that the
>>>>airline very rarely asks me about it.  One compromise I make is
>>>>that if I can't get a window seat, I
>>>>>will still place my cane along the window but will use a folding
>>>>cane during the flight so I don't have to disturb the passenger
>>>>sitting by the window.  The
>>>>>airlines have to live by regulations, too, so one should not feel
>>>>apologetic about using a straight cane as long as one knows what
>>>>to do with it.  What airlines
>>>>>do not understand is that the time a blind person is on a plane
>>>>when traveling independently is generally a small part of our
>>>>total travel experience.  Traveling
>>>>>to the airport, through security and to the gate and then doing
>>>>the same thing at the other end requires that we have a
>>>>comfortable and reliable way to
>>>>>travel.

>>>>>The other reason I like to have a backup cane when I travel is
>>>>that there have been occasions when my straight cane has been
>>>>dammaged by elevator
>>>>>doors and such.  There are somethings that no cane will survive.

>>>>>While talking about traveling, I'd like to make a comment about
>>>>traveling with other people.  You mentioned in another note that
>>>>you are traveling with your
>>>>>mother, for example.  This can be another area where each of us
>>>>has to seek our own solutions.  I have traveled with blind
>>>>persons who always walk by
>>>>>themselves, who can follow independently and have no problem with
>>>>that at all.  Particularly in an airport, one often finds
>>>>themselves in the position where
>>>>>they have the cane in one hand and their luggage in the other.
>>>>Still, I personally find it somewhat difficult to travel and talk
>>>>to someone else at the same
>>>>>time.  For the record, I can usually walk and chew gum.  <smile
>>>>I will often take the arm of the person I am traveling with, even
>>>>if they are as blind as I am,
>>>>>simply because it is easier for me to carry on a conversation
>>>>without having to think about where they are.  However, when I
>>>>take the arm of another
>>>>>person, I do not follow the "Sighted guide" process of walking a
>>>>step behind them.  Rather, I continue using my cane taking
>>>>responsibility for my own
>>>>>protection, regardless of whether the other person is blind or
>>>>sighted.  If I am walking with someone and I trip on a curb, it
>>>>should be my fault and not theirs.
>>>>>Particularly with parents who tend to feel responsible for their
>>>>kids, and I say this not just as a blind person but also as a
>>>>parent, using a cane while walking
>>>>>with a parent can be a good compromise.  I have also followed
>>>>others in an airport before getting rid of my bag by placing my
>>>>cane on the bag of the person
>>>>>walking in front of me.  While this does not give me as much
>>>>information about what is in front of me, generally following
>>>>another person with a bag
>>>>>guarantees that my path is clear.  This can be helpful when an
>>>>area is carpeted, reducing ones chance of hearing the other
>>>>person walk.  Of course, if you
>>>>>are the person in the lead, this is not a concern at all, and
>>>>often that will be the case.

>>>>>As I have gotten older and my hearing less keen, I have gradually
>>>>used longer canes to give me more warning of objects in front of
>>>>me.  I resisted doing this
>>>>>for many years because of the inconvenience of knowing what to do
>>>>with the cane when it is not in use.  Mostly, I have found that
>>>>it just isn't the problem
>>>>>that I thought it would be.  A responsible blind person will try
>>>>to be aware of whether one's cane is sticking out in an aisle at
>>>>a restaurant for example.  We all
>>>>>make the occasional mistake along those lines, but I don't think
>>>>that my use of a straight cane gives me license to inconvenience
>>>>or endanger someone
>>>>>else.  With a little care, this doesn't have to happen.  There
>>>>may still be times when you may find a folding cane to be useful.
>>>>For example, some folding
>>>>>bleachers such as you find in a gym can make dealing with a
>>>>straight cane more of a challenge.  However, I cannot honestly
>>>>remember the last time I really
>>>>>felt that I should have used a folding cane.  The times when I
>>>>really want to fold one up just don't happen very often, and as
>>>>you can see, I've been stung
>>>>>by using a folding cane just often enough to not want to take the
>>>>chance.

>>>>>This is really great that you have brought this up on the list.
>>>>While I have a strong belief that my choices are right for me, my
>>>>hope here is only that you take
>>>>>my experiences into account as you chart your course.  I believe
>>>>our ability to travel independently as blind people is one of the
>>>>most important skills in our
>>>>>success, and having a reliable way to do it is very important,
>>>>whatever that is.  I view the occasional inconvenience of dealing
>>>>with a straight cane as being
>>>>>less of a problem than what many people deal with who have
>>>>contact lenses, for example.  You learn to deal with the
>>>>occasional inconvenience in order to
>>>>>have a reliable tool to use to travel.

>>>>>Best regards,

>>>>>Steve Jacobson

>>>>>	On Wed, 05 Jan 2011 17:56:12 -0600 (CST), Kelby Carlson
>>>>wrote:

>>>>>>I was wondering if anyone else on this list has read Freedom for
>>>>>>the Blind by James Omvig.  I am reading it now, and find much of
>>>>>>what it says very good; he articulates many things I have
>>>>>>believed my entire life and values my parents raised me with.

>>>>>>I'm almost to the section on the long white cane, and I have
>>>>>>wondered about this for some time.  I understand the emotional
>>>>>>power of using a long cane and the statement it makes, but it
>>>>>>seems less than necessary from a pragmatic standpoint.  I prefer
>>>>>>to have a cane that is able to fold not because I want to hide my
>>>>>>blindness, but simply for convenience.  I'm rather tall, so
>>>>>>having a long cane that can't fold would make it very difficult
>>>>>>to travel in cars, at least I'm assuming so.  (I can't imagine
>>>>>>the fits airlines could have over this.) Does anyone have
>>>>>>experience with this? I'm trying to explore options right now.  I
>>>>>>want to get more involved with the larger blind community and I'm
>>>>>>fast approaching college.  Any discussion on this would be
>>>>>>awesome.


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