[Mn-abs] Freedom for the Blind
Kelby Carlson
kelbycarlson at usfamily.net
Fri Jan 7 12:50:31 UTC 2011
How does one learn a new environment--especially a city or a
campus--without formal mobility training? This is one of the
point's that intrigued me about the book. Is it simply a matter
of practice, or are there specific things one does?
> ----- Original Message -----
>From: Arielle Silverman <nabs.president at gmail.com
>To: Minnesota Association of Blind Students List
<mn-abs at nfbnet.org
>Date sent: Fri, 07 Jan 2011 00:16:33 -0600 (CST)
>Subject: Re: [Mn-abs] Freedom for the Blind
>I think anyone can benefit from a training center, but whether it
>should trump other priorities or goals is a difficult question.
I
>deferred my training until after college because I got a
competitive
>scholarship right out of high school and wasn't able to take a
break
>between high school and college without losing it. I often
struggled
>with the question of whether I should take time off from college
to
>attend the center or wait until after graduation. In the end I
waited
>until after graduation and I was fine, but I also think the
training I
>got enhanced my later experience with going to grad school in a
new
>state, learning a new campus without formal mobility training,
etc. If
>you feel you have time in your life to attend a center for even a
few
>months I'd say go for it, but if right now you have other
priorities
>and you feel good about your skills, I'd agree that just making a
>point of practicing and learning new things on your own is a
good,
>solid plan.
>Arielle
>On 1/6/11, Jordan Richardson <lilrichie411 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Kelby,
>> It's great that you were raised in the mainstream and have a
large skill
>> set. You are also very intelligent and, you say yourself, that
>> self-advocacy is one of your strong suits. I believe that,
given these
>> circumstances, you may very well not need a trainning center.
What you need
>> is to simply use those skills in the real world, and college is
a great
>> opportunity to do this. I, personally, believe that a program
at a
>> trainning center is mostly for those who haven't had some of the
experiences
>> you and I, for example have had growing up. If what you are
looking to do
>> is pollish your skills, what you need is to put those skills to
use at home,
>> at college, and generally at life. That is not to say that
trainning is not
>> an option, because some people really need it, but you have to
ask yourself,
>> "do I need 'rehabilitation'?" If you truly look back and say "I
was
>> 'habilitated' as a child," you may not necesarily need a
trainning program.
>> All in all, it is a personal choice that you have to make
yourself, however,
>> that is not to say you can't ask for advice.
>> Just my two cents,
>> Jordan
>> mabs president
>> On 6 January 2011 21:32, Kelby Carlson
<kelbycarlson at usfamily.net> wrote:
>>> That's good to know. I'm already applying to colleges and
auditioning for
>>> music scholarships, so I'm not sure I'll attend a training
center. I
>>> simply
>>> don't know when I thd have the time, and I'm not convinced I
have the
>>> need.
>>> (I'm not saying I'm all that special, just that I was raised
very
>>> mainstream in a normal family and have a big skill-set.)
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Steve Jacobson" <steve.jacobson at visi.com
>>>> To: "Minnesota Association of Blind Students List"
>>> <mn-abs at nfbnet.org
>>>> Date sent: Thu, 06 Jan 2011 21:13:02 -0600 (CST)
>>>> Subject: Re: [Mn-abs] Freedom for the Blind
>>> Kelby,
>>> If you got a cane when you were one year old, you definitely
>>> benefited from the work we did in the 1970's and 1980's
>>>> to get canes into the hands of younger kids.
>>> Perhaps others can answer this question better than I, but I
>>> would say that most blind pdople spend some time in a
>>>> training center after high school. Some of the time would be
>>> used to brush up and solidify the skills you already have,
>>>> and if you already have good skills in some areas, more time can
>>> be spent on areas where more work would be
>>>> helpful. This is the time in your life when you have the most
>>> flexibility to do something like this. I don't know your
>>>> background but others here know you better and might be able to
>>> give you a more personalized answer.
>>> Best regards,
>>> Steve Jacobson
>>> On Thu, 06 Jan 2011 17:23:44 -0600 (CST), Kelby Carlson wrote:
>>> Steve,
>>> Just to clarify. I received a cane when I was only one year
old,
>>>>> and have been using one all of my life. Using the cane itself
is
>>>>> very natural. I simply need to become more accustomed to
walking
>>>>> by myself, which I have done but would like to do more.
>>> I really think I'm getting your position on pushing for change.
>>>>> Working in groups myself, I know how essential working in that
>>>>> kind of a frame of mind is.
>>> Here's a question I'd like to pose to the list, though I don't
>>>>> know if the answers will change my mind. It's been suggested to
>>>>> me that I should attend a training center for a several month
>>>>> period, but I'm really not sure that's necessary at this point.
>>>>> Yes, there are areas in my life that need to be more
independent.
>>>>> I suspect that will happen when I begin college, as I am
>>>>> naturally an advocate for myself and usually just require a
nudge
>>>>> if that. I've been trained in mobility and technology and am
>>>>> proficient. My daily living skills could perhaps be imprved,
but
>>>>> I believe the same could be said of most high school students.
>>>>> What do you guys think?
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: "Steve Jacobson" <steve.jacobson at visi.com
>>>>>> To: "Minnesota Association of Blind Students List"
>>>>> <mn-abs at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> Date sent: Thu, 06 Jan 2011 16:37:52 -0600 (CST)
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Mn-abs] Freedom for the Blind
>>> Keldy,
>>> While I think that we have learned to try to explain our
>>>>> positions more rather than just lay them out, I don't think that
>>>>> we have ever been as inflexible as
>>>>>> some made us out to be. Often, I have heard it explained that
>>>>> blind people come to the Federation and are then all taught to
>>>>> jump to the beat of a single
>>>>>> drum. What I don't think some have understood is that most of
us
>>>>> have become a part of the NFB because we found something there
>>>>> that reinforced what
>>>>>> we already thought. After joining, I certainly learned things
>>>>> that changed my mind on some issues, but I also worked within
the
>>>>> organization to change other
>>>>>> minds as well. I used a folding cane for a good while into my
>>>>> membership in the NFB, and there were those who told me I should
>>>>> use a straight cane. At
>>>>>> that point, their approach didn't work for me because partly
they
>>>>> never explained why, and partly because nobody was going to tell
>>>>> me what to do even
>>>>>> though I was a committed member. <smile> It took standing in
>>>>> the middle of Hennepin with that little piece of pipe to change
>>>>> my mind. Some have
>>>>>> believed that we never debate. They have not been at some of
our
>>>>> conventions or read some of our e-mail lists. However, we try
>>>>> hard to pull together
>>>>>> once a decision is made. I will support an issue in terms of
>>>>> working for the NFB even if I voted against it knowing that
means
>>>>> others who may not support
>>>>>> an issue of mine will do the same when the vote goes my way.
>>>>> Some see that as inflexibility. I think, though, that you will
>>>>> find that each of us has taken a
>>>>>> different path to get to where we are now, and that our reasons
>>>>> for being here include getting encouragement ourselves, having a
>>>>> place to go with our
>>>>>> questions, and to gry to make life better for those blind people
>>>>> who come after us.
>>> I did not know that "sighted guide" is now being taught to be
>>>>> used in conjunction with the cane. When I learned it, one was
>>>>> specifically told to remain a
>>>>>> step or so behind the person whose arm one had to give oneself
>>>>> warning that a step up or down was coming. One would feel the
>>>>> elbow rise or fall giving
>>>>>> one a little time to react. I am glad to see that has
apparently
>>>>> changed, and who knows, we may have affected that on some level.
>>>>> During my lifetime, I
>>>>>> can remember when we were considered to be crazy to think that
>>>>> the cane should be given to elementary students. Some even felt
>>>>> that middleschool or
>>>>>> junior was too soon for the cane. Stil, it has become pretty
>>>>> mainstream to introduce kids to canes when they are young, now.
>>>>> Some issues such as getting
>>>>>> canes to kids we advocated for a long time and we felt it was
>>>>> important enough to push. Some could have seen that as
>>>>> inflexible, but it was the only way to
>>>>>> get thinking to change.
>>> You asked about walking less using sighted guide. What I have
>>>>> found over time is that I am more aware of my surroundings when
I
>>>>> am not walking sighted
>>>>>> guide. If someone is showing me around a college campus, for
>>>>> example, I will retain a lot more if I am walking with the
person
>>>>> but walking independently.
>>>>>> That may not be true for everyone, but it is for me. Using a
>>>>> cane and refining those skills requires some instruction as you
>>>>> have already had, but practice is
>>>>>> what will make using a cane second nature for you. The more you
>>>>> use it, the more natural it will all feel. There are going to
be
>>>>> times when it is simply more
>>>>>> practical to walk sighted guide with someone, but what I always
>>>>> wanted to shoot for was knowing that I was choosing to walk with
>>>>> someone rather than
>>>>>> feeling I couldn't do it any other way. In my case, I had to
>>>>> force myself to walk alone more, especially in the beginning, so
>>>>> that I could build my confidence
>>>>>> as a traveler and have the use of a cane feel natural. It
didn't
>>>>> mean that I never took an arm, but it was something I tried to
>>>>> keep in the forefront of my mind.
>>>>>> If I found that it was a pattern to walk with someone when I
went
>>>>> to a certain place, I would try to find a reason to do it alone
>>>>> sometime or to at least walk
>>>>>> separately so that I would know I could do it.
>>> In short, I think that the picture sometimes painted of NFB
>>>>> members has been wrong, but there is also no doubt that we have
>>>>> worked hard to change some
>>>>>> things and change isn't always easy for some to accept. I hope
>>>>> you keep asking questions here. It is good for all of us.
>>> Best regards,
>>> Steve Jacobson
>>> On Thu, 06 Jan 2011 10:04:29 -0600 (CST), Kelby Carlson wrote:
>>> Steve,
>>> Thank you so much for your thoughtful, well-considered and
>>>>>>> articulate response to my questions. I'll be candid here. I've
>>>>>>> been, for a long while, somewhat innoculated against the NFB
>>>>>>> because of what some perceive to be their faults. (One of which
>>>>>>> is lack of compromise and inflexibility.) It is obvious from
>>>>>>> talking to people on this list and from beginning to read NFB
>>>>>>> literature, that this is most definitely not the case. My
>>>>>>> mobility training has been very good. Humorously enough, when I
>>>>>>> was trained to use sighted guide as a child I have always been
>>>>>>> trained to use my cane while taking someone's arm I did not
>>>>>>> even realize, until you said something, that blind people would
>>>>>>> use sighted guide without the use of their cane. However, I
have
>>>>>>> begun to believe that I must decrease my use of sighted guide.
I
>>>>>>> want to be as independent a traveler as I can, and I believe
>>>>>>> learning to follow independently is an important skill. I
>>>>>>> attended the Circle of Life Science Camp in 2005, and gained
>>>>>>> knowledge of doing this. Do you think beginning to practice
this
>>>>>>> more would be a good idea?
>>> I actually decided to request a white cane this morning, and
I'm
>>>>>>> very excited to begin experimenting with it. I also applied for
>>>>>>> a mentor on NFB link so I easily ask questions like this and
>>>>>>> start to network. It's rather amazing how empowering taking
>>>>>>> these simple steps can feel.
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>> From: "Steve Jacobson" <steve.jacobson at visi.com
>>>>>>>> To: "Minnesota Association of Blind Students List"
>>>>>>> <mn-abs at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> Date sent: Thu, 06 Jan 2011 09:41:14 -0600 (CST)
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Mn-abs] Freedom for the Blind
>>> Keldy,
>>> To some degree, whether you use a folding cane or straight
cane,
>>>>>>> and even the length you use, is a personal preference. If you
>>>>>>> have already given some
>>>>>>>> thought, as you indicate, as to whether using a folding cane
>>>>>>> hides your blindness, I think you are off to a good start.
>>> I remember clearly the day I decided I was going to no longer
use
>>>>>>> a folding cane as my main cane. It was winter, and I was
>>>>>>> crossing Hennepin Avenue at
>>>>>>>> Seventh Street in downtown Minneapolis. I even remember I was
on
>>>>>>> the south side of Seventh walking west. About half way across
>>>>>>> Hennepin, my cane
>>>>>>>> suddenly became noticeably lighter. A half second later, I
heard
>>>>>>> the clattering and rolling of small pipes on the surface of
>>>>>>> Hennepin. It took a second for me
>>>>>>>> to put the two observations together that my folding cane had
>>>>>>> broken, and what I was hearing were the sections of my folding
>>>>>>> cane hitting the street and
>>>>>>>> rolling away from me. There I was, standing in the middle of
>>>>>>> Hennepin Avenue during rush hour with a 12-inch piece of pipe in
>>>>>>> my hand. Needless to say, I
>>>>>>>> did get across the street, and some others assisted me in
>>>>>>> tracking down the sections of my cane that I hadn't found
myself.
>>>>>>> I managed to temporarily get my
>>>>>>>> cane to stay together until I got back to my college dorm.
>>> Even with this experience, though, I have used a folding cane
on
>>>>>>> several occasions since. Even the telescoping canes, which
would
>>>>>>> not have likely
>>>>>>>> broken as did the one I described above, are much more likely to
>>>>>>> be broken when people trip over them because the section nearest
>>>>>>> the ground is thinner.
>>>>>>>> This has happened to me on a number of occasions. Still, I do
>>>>>>> keep a telescoping cane as a backup when I travel.
>>> Dave Andrews has described how to get a cane into and out of a
>>>>>>> car, and he has mentioned placing it between the seat and the
>>>>>>> window on an airplane.
>>>>>>>> The fact is that the airlines probably would prefer it if we
>>>>>>> would all use folding canes, but the regulations do permit canes
>>>>>>> to be placed between the seat and
>>>>>>>> the window if it can be made to lay next to the body of the
plane
>>>>>>> without sticking up. There is a bit of a trick to doing this,
>>>>>>> too, but one masters it fairly
>>>>>>>> quickly. I find if I get my cane situated right away that the
>>>>>>> airline very rarely asks me about it. One compromise I make is
>>>>>>> that if I can't get a window seat, I
>>>>>>>> will still place my cane along the window but will use a folding
>>>>>>> cane during the flight so I don't have to disturb the passenger
>>>>>>> sitting by the window. The
>>>>>>>> airlines have to live by regulations, too, so one should not
feel
>>>>>>> apologetic about using a straight cane as long as one knows what
>>>>>>> to do with it. What airlines
>>>>>>>> do not understand is that the time a blind person is on a plane
>>>>>>> when traveling independently is generally a small part of our
>>>>>>> total travel experience. Traveling
>>>>>>>> to the airport, through security and to the gate and then doing
>>>>>>> the same thing at the other end requires that we have a
>>>>>>> comfortable and reliable way to
>>>>>>>> travel.
>>> The other reason I like to have a backup cane when I travel is
>>>>>>> that there have been occasions when my straight cane has been
>>>>>>> dammaged by elevator
>>>>>>>> doors and such. There are somethings that no cane will survive.
>>> While talking about traveling, I'd like to make a comment
about
>>>>>>> traveling with other people. You mentioned in another note that
>>>>>>> you are traveling with your
>>>>>>>> mother, for example. This can be another area where each of us
>>>>>>> has to seek our own solutions. I have traveled with blind
>>>>>>> persons who always walk by
>>>>>>>> themselves, who can follow independently and have no problem
with
>>>>>>> that at all. Particularly in an airport, one often finds
>>>>>>> themselves in the position where
>>>>>>>> they have the cane in one hand and their luggage in the other.
>>>>>>> Still, I personally find it somewhat difficult to travel and
talk
>>>>>>> to someone else at the same
>>>>>>>> time. For the record, I can usually walk and chew gum. <smile
>>>>>>> I will often take the arm of the person I am traveling with,
even
>>>>>>> if they are as blind as I am,
>>>>>>>> simply because it is easier for me to carry on a conversation
>>>>>>> without having to think about where they are. However, when I
>>>>>>> take the arm of another
>>>>>>>> person, I do not follow the "Sighted guide" process of walking a
>>>>>>> step behind them. Rather, I continue using my cane taking
>>>>>>> responsibility for my own
>>>>>>>> protection, regardless of whether the other person is blind or
>>>>>>> sighted. If I am walking with someone and I trip on a curb, it
>>>>>>> should be my fault and not theirs.
>>>>>>>> Particularly with parents who tend to feel responsible for their
>>>>>>> kids, and I say this not just as a blind person but also as a
>>>>>>> parent, using a cane while walking
>>>>>>>> with a parent can be a good compromise. I have also followed
>>>>>>> others in an airport before getting rid of my bag by placing my
>>>>>>> cane on the bag of the person
>>>>>>>> walking in front of me. While this does not give me as much
>>>>>>> information about what is in front of me, generally following
>>>>>>> another person with a bag
>>>>>>>> guarantees that my path is clear. This can be helpful when an
>>>>>>> area is carpeted, reducing ones chance of hearing the other
>>>>>>> person walk. Of course, if you
>>>>>>>> are the person in the lead, this is not a concern at all, and
>>>>>>> often that will be the case.
>>> As I have gotten older and my hearing less keen, I have
gradually
>>>>>>> used longer canes to give me more warning of objects in front of
>>>>>>> me. I resisted doing this
>>>>>>>> for many years because of the inconvenience of knowing what to
do
>>>>>>> with the cane when it is not in use. Mostly, I have found that
>>>>>>> it just isn't the problem
>>>>>>>> that I thought it would be. A responsible blind person will try
>>>>>>> to be aware of whether one's cane is sticking out in an aisle at
>>>>>>> a restaurant for example. We all
>>>>>>>> make the occasional mistake along those lines, but I don't think
>>>>>>> that my use of a straight cane gives me license to inconvenience
>>>>>>> or endanger someone
>>>>>>>> else. With a little care, this doesn't have to happen. There
>>>>>>> may still be times when you may find a folding cane to be
useful.
>>>>>>> For example, some folding
>>>>>>>> bleachers such as you find in a gym can make dealing with a
>>>>>>> straight cane more of a challenge. However, I cannot honestly
>>>>>>> remember the last time I really
>>>>>>>> felt that I should have used a folding cane. The times when I
>>>>>>> really want to fold one up just don't happen very often, and as
>>>>>>> you can see, I've been stung
>>>>>>>> by using a folding cane just often enough to not want to take
the
>>>>>>> chance.
>>> This is really great that you have brought this up on the
list.
>>>>>>> While I have a strong belief that my choices are right for me,
my
>>>>>>> hope here is only that you take
>>>>>>>> my experiences into account as you chart your course. I believe
>>>>>>> our ability to travel independently as blind people is one of
the
>>>>>>> most important skills in our
>>>>>>>> success, and having a reliable way to do it is very important,
>>>>>>> whatever that is. I view the occasional inconvenience of
dealing
>>>>>>> with a straight cane as being
>>>>>>>> less of a problem than what many people deal with who have
>>>>>>> contact lenses, for example. You learn to deal with the
>>>>>>> occasional inconvenience in order to
>>>>>>>> have a reliable tool to use to travel.
>>> Best regards,
>>> Steve Jacobson
>>> On Wed, 05 Jan 2011 17:56:12 -0600 (CST), Kelby Carlson
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>> I was wondering if anyone else on this list has read Freedom
for
>>>>>>>>> the Blind by James Omvig. I am reading it now, and find much of
>>>>>>>>> what it says very good; he articulates many things I have
>>>>>>>>> believed my entire life and values my parents raised me with.
>>> I'm almost to the section on the long white cane, and I have
>>>>>>>>> wondered about this for some time. I understand the emotional
>>>>>>>>> power of using a long cane and the statement it makes, but it
>>>>>>>>> seems less than necessary from a pragmatic standpoint. I prefer
>>>>>>>>> to have a cane that is able to fold not because I want to hide
my
>>>>>>>>> blindness, but simply for convenience. I'm rather tall, so
>>>>>>>>> having a long cane that can't fold would make it very difficult
>>>>>>>>> to travel in cars, at least I'm assuming so. (I can't imagine
>>>>>>>>> the fits airlines could have over this.) Does anyone have
>>>>>>>>> experience with this? I'm trying to explore options right now.
I
>>>>>>>>> want to get more involved with the larger blind community and
I'm
>>>>>>>>> fast approaching college. Any discussion on this would be
>>>>>>>>> awesome.
>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Mn-abs mailing list
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>>>>>>>> for Mn-abs:
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>>>>>>>> obson%40visi.com
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411%40gmail.com
>> --
>> Jordan Richardson
>> President, Minnesota Association of Blind Students
>> lilrichie411 at gmail.com
>> “It is very important to generate a good attitude, a good heart,
as much as
>> possible. From this, happiness in both the short term and the
long term for
>> both yourself and others will come.”
>> --Dalai Lama
>> _______________________________________________
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ident%40gmail.com
>--
>Arielle Silverman
>President, National Association of Blind Students
>Phone: 602-502-2255
>Email:
>nabs.president at gmail.com
>Website:
>www.nabslink.org
>_______________________________________________
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