[nagdu] FIDELCO ownership rights and other things.
cheryl echevarria
cherylandmaxx at hotmail.com
Thu Feb 3 20:04:33 UTC 2011
In my mind Bryan:
That they are stopped from doing this, if they are not giving just cause as why they are taking there dog away from them and not even giving the owner of the dog any reason to do this.
By all means you have a right to know, it is a signed contract between you and the school, if they are violating your rights and they are refusing to tell you why. Then that person has a right to ask for help.
We as NAGDU, has a right to help, the people or persons involved have asked Marion and NAGDU for help. He and they do not have to come on the list and explain themselves at all.
They are laws and contracts being broken, and people should have a right to sue if this isn't rectified.
I want to go to a school that is honest and not doing shifty things, and I want to know about it.
The biggest compliment you can pay me is to recommend my services!
Cheryl Echevarria
http://www.Echevarriatravel.com<http://www.echevarriatravel.com/>
1-866-580-5574 or 631-456-5394
reservations at echevarriatravel.com<mailto:reservations at echevarriatravel.com>
Affiliated as an Independent Contractor with Montrose Travel CST-1018299-10
Affiliated as an Independent Contractor with Absolute Cruise and Travel Inc.
----- Original Message -----
From: Bryan Brown<mailto:bryanbrown at solarus.biz>
To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2011 2:54 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] FIDELCO ownership rights and other things.
Marion,
The only information that you have shared is that you were contacted by a
FIDELCO client that had claimed to have had her dog repossessed by FIDELCO
without just cause. You informed the list that FIDELCO's Eliot Russman, when
presented with a signed release form declined to release information
pertaining to the case. Shortly after making that announcement you
informed the list that you had been contacted by four additional people who
claimed to have had similar experiences. You have also asserted that you
have the belief that many more people will not speak their minds for fears
of reprisal from the training program and you've called all training
programs by default custodial and paternalistic.
Do I have that just about right? Where am I suppose to see a pattern in
that. What kind of reprisal are you talking about? If they've already taken
your dog, what more can they do?
Bryan
----- Original Message -----
From: "Marion Gwizdala" <blind411 at verizon.net<mailto:blind411 at verizon.net>>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
<nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org>>
Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2011 1:10 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] FIDELCO ownership rights and other things.
> Bryan,
> With all due respect, if the pattern cannot be seen by what I have
> already shared, there is nothing else I can do to demonstrate this. The
> evidence will be shared with the appropriate individuals during discovery.
> This matter is now in the hands of our attorney, so it is now time for me
> to step back and let them do their job.
>
> Fraternally yours,
> Marion
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bryan Brown" <bryanbrown at solarus.biz<mailto:bryanbrown at solarus.biz>>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org>>
> Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2011 1:42 PM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] FIDELCO ownership rights and other things.
>
>
>> Marion,
>>
>> What pattern is evolving, what credible, physical evidence do you
>> have? Why don't you expose it to the light of day and see if it holds up.
>>
>> I understand that losing a dog is a deeply emotional thing and the
>> parties involved are upset, but what if they are not being completely
>> honest with you, what if FIDELCO did give up confidential information and
>> it ended up reflecting a psychological disorder, a drug abuse problem,
>> severe alcoholism, criminal activity etc.
>>
>> Marion, I'm not saying that these are the reasons that the dog was
>> repossessed, but they are things that a person is not likely to tell you
>> when they are looking for an advocate. A person looking for an advocate
>> is going to claim to have done everything the right way, they are not
>> going to tell you that they are a repeat offender and have spent 12 out
>> of the last 30 days in the drunk tank.
>>
>> That kind of information could ruin a persons life, confidentiality is
>> truly for the protection of the individual. If you found out that the dog
>> was removed for a completely legitimate reason and that the person was
>> not honest with you, would you be as ready to advocate for that same
>> person in the future?Even if the person had changed their life around and
>> had gotten things straightened out, no longer had a psychological
>> disorder, a drug abuse problem, issues with alcohol, and were no longer
>> involved with criminal activity etc. They would still be the same person
>> or persons that talked you in to sticking your neck out and you probably
>> would not support them. So by maintaining confidentiality, the individual
>> is protected, no information is released and that's probably better for
>> them. They get to put the blame on someone else and look like the victim.
>>
>> I still stand by the idea that if in deed the dog was taken for no
>> reason, getting the story into the public eye would be the best way to
>> get anything done about it. If the person has nothing to hide, if they
>> are being completely honest and the story they tell is fact, well... have
>> them show their face and stand by their words.
>>
>> Bryan
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Marion Gwizdala" <blind411 at verizon.net<mailto:blind411 at verizon.net>>
>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org>>
>> Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2011 11:36 AM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] FIDELCO ownership rights and other things.
>>
>>
>>> Dear All,
>>> I will only say that we have attempted to get Fidelco's side of the
>>> story and, in spite of a signed release of information, Mr. Russman
>>> refused to talk to us about it. As this message so astutely stated, it
>>> makes us wonder what they are hiding. A great deal, we have come to find
>>> out, as more consumer come forward with similar stories. If it were an
>>> isolated incident, I would question the details. As a pattern evolves
>>> and we find credible information with physical evidence, it supports our
>>> action.
>>>
>>> Fraternally yours,
>>> Marion Gwizdala
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Brenda" <bjnite at windstream.net<mailto:bjnite at windstream.net>>
>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org>>
>>> Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2011 11:45 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] FIDELCO ownership rights and other things.
>>>
>>>
>>>> Brian
>>>> Well said.
>>>> I have asked what the person who had her dog removed from Fidelco was
>>>> actually told with no response - makes me wonder. I do not think the
>>>> whole story has been relayed about the incidents at Leader either. I
>>>> find it amazing that a dog could be removed with little warning and no
>>>> cause - something is missing OR at least it would be nice to hear from
>>>> the school and the handler (both sides of the story) so an informed
>>>> opinion could be made about a certain school.
>>>>
>>>> Maybe in the survey that is being prepared there could be an entry of
>>>> how many dogs have been repo'd by the school and the reason the school
>>>> gave for the forced return.
>>>>
>>>> Another survey question would be what is the reason for your ownership
>>>> policy? Why do you require a handler to wait two years before awarding
>>>> ownership?
>>>>
>>>> Brenda
>>>> Brenda
>>>>
>>>> On 2/3/2011 11:04 AM, Bryan Brown wrote:
>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>
>>>>> The day after Marion posted the message about the woman who
>>>>> had their dog
>>>>> repossessed by FIDELCO for no reason... I received a call from a
>>>>> FIDELCO trainer. She was
>>>>> calling to find out if she could meet with me for a follow up visit. I
>>>>> scheduled a time to meet with her on the seventeenth of February,
>>>>> since I am
>>>>> not in what you might say is FIDELCO's traditional service area this
>>>>> will be
>>>>> the first follow up visit that I have had. They have offered, but I
>>>>> haven't had any
>>>>> problems that I thought needed a trainers help with so I declined. Any
>>>>> time
>>>>> I have ever had an issue or question I just call out to FIDELCO and I
>>>>> get
>>>>> put right through to someone who can help. I've never had to request
>>>>> follow
>>>>> up, I guess I've been lucky and not had any issues as a working team
>>>>> that I couldn't deal with myself. I'd be comfortable if FIDELCO called
>>>>> and
>>>>> said hey we're five minutes from your house and we want to see your
>>>>> dog. That would be great, I don't have any reasons to be anything
>>>>> other than proud of my dog. They were however nice enough to give me
>>>>> more than two weeks notice and make sure that it worked with my
>>>>> schedule. I'm far from intimidated, in fact I'm
>>>>> excited, I know that I have nothing to worry about, my dog is healthy,
>>>>> he is in great shape , we are a great working team and I'll be proud
>>>>> to show
>>>>> off our teamwork to someone who knows how much it takes to develop
>>>>> that type
>>>>> of relationship with a dog. My only concern is that the trainer might
>>>>> not be
>>>>> able to stick around and have dinner with myself and my family.
>>>>>
>>>>> It's unfortunate that anyone would ever have their dog unjustly
>>>>> removed from
>>>>> them and I'm not sure how that would benefit the program, imagine the
>>>>> implications if a person could prove those allegations, for instance
>>>>> in front of a jury? Why aren't the people who have supposedly had
>>>>> their dogs removed
>>>>> making a public show of such an unjust action? I know if that happened
>>>>> to me
>>>>> I'd be the first to call the sheriff, my vet, my attorney and the
>>>>> media, I'd make a
>>>>> huge stink of it, but I am confident that I have done nothing to bring
>>>>> such
>>>>> action on myself. , maybe the parties in question are not quite so
>>>>> confident? Is it possible that the inflammatory comments that Marion
>>>>> has made about FIDELCO and Mr. Russman are rooted in limited
>>>>> information and Mr. Russman's reservations to bow down to the big bad
>>>>> NFB?
>>>>>
>>>>> as far as I know... I own Tarik, do I think I have that right, "yes"
>>>>> at this
>>>>> point after five years it would be cruel to remove him from me, I am
>>>>> as much
>>>>> his life as he is mine. Do I think I deserved to own him upon
>>>>> graduation, my
>>>>> answer is no. I feel as though having a dog is a wonderful privilege
>>>>> in the
>>>>> case of a FIDELCO dog it's a 45,000 dollar privilege and I am the
>>>>> custodian of that privilege. It is my responsibility to hold up my end
>>>>> of
>>>>> the bargain. I knew what it was when I got the dog and I was confident
>>>>> in my
>>>>> ability to hold up my end of the bargain throughout his working life.
>>>>> That's
>>>>> why I signed my name on the line.
>>>>>
>>>>> I think making negative comments about any given program in a public
>>>>> forum
>>>>> without first hand experience is wrong and only serves to tarnish the
>>>>> program. If people have complaints so be it, but unless the complaints
>>>>> are coming directly from the people making them, the information has
>>>>> probably been spun and is most certainly one sided.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm not sure why anyone sees fit to vilify any guide dog program.
>>>>> all the people that work so hard to provide us with these wonderful
>>>>> animals aren't doing it for the money. I'm fairly sure that the puppy
>>>>> raisers aren't pulling down huge salaries, and that the trainers
>>>>> surely aren't earning six figures, I see that they are doing it
>>>>> because they are genuinely good people, and that they either have a
>>>>> passion for helping, or dogs, or both!
>>>>>
>>>>> Why is it that I see such a militant attitude with so much of the NFB?
>>>>> I know it's a strong advocacy group, but I personally don't want to be
>>>>> advocated for by a group that comes across so negatively. We've become
>>>>> a society of victims, everything is always somebody else's fault and
>>>>> there is always someone out to get you, I see it in strangers and
>>>>> people I know and love. People have to start standing up for
>>>>> themselves again and taking responsibility for their own actions.
>>>>>
>>>>> Bryan
>>>>> -----
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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