[nagdu] FIDELCO ownership rights and other things.
Marion Gwizdala
blind411 at verizon.net
Fri Feb 4 02:54:40 UTC 2011
Bryan,
It was good to talk to you on the telephone today. I hope the
information I shared helps you understand more of the issue. Be sure to keep
a tight hold on that leash!
Fraternally yours,
Marion
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bryan Brown" <bryanbrown at solarus.biz>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2011 2:54 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] FIDELCO ownership rights and other things.
> Marion,
>
> The only information that you have shared is that you were contacted by a
> FIDELCO client that had claimed to have had her dog repossessed by FIDELCO
> without just cause. You informed the list that FIDELCO's Eliot Russman,
> when presented with a signed release form declined to release information
> pertaining to the case. Shortly after making that announcement you
> informed the list that you had been contacted by four additional people
> who claimed to have had similar experiences. You have also asserted that
> you have the belief that many more people will not speak their minds for
> fears of reprisal from the training program and you've called all training
> programs by default custodial and paternalistic.
>
> Do I have that just about right? Where am I suppose to see a pattern in
> that. What kind of reprisal are you talking about? If they've already
> taken your dog, what more can they do?
>
> Bryan
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Marion Gwizdala" <blind411 at verizon.net>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2011 1:10 PM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] FIDELCO ownership rights and other things.
>
>
>> Bryan,
>> With all due respect, if the pattern cannot be seen by what I have
>> already shared, there is nothing else I can do to demonstrate this. The
>> evidence will be shared with the appropriate individuals during
>> discovery. This matter is now in the hands of our attorney, so it is now
>> time for me to step back and let them do their job.
>>
>> Fraternally yours,
>> Marion
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Bryan Brown" <bryanbrown at solarus.biz>
>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2011 1:42 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] FIDELCO ownership rights and other things.
>>
>>
>>> Marion,
>>>
>>> What pattern is evolving, what credible, physical evidence do you
>>> have? Why don't you expose it to the light of day and see if it holds
>>> up.
>>>
>>> I understand that losing a dog is a deeply emotional thing and the
>>> parties involved are upset, but what if they are not being completely
>>> honest with you, what if FIDELCO did give up confidential information
>>> and it ended up reflecting a psychological disorder, a drug abuse
>>> problem, severe alcoholism, criminal activity etc.
>>>
>>> Marion, I'm not saying that these are the reasons that the dog was
>>> repossessed, but they are things that a person is not likely to tell you
>>> when they are looking for an advocate. A person looking for an advocate
>>> is going to claim to have done everything the right way, they are not
>>> going to tell you that they are a repeat offender and have spent 12 out
>>> of the last 30 days in the drunk tank.
>>>
>>> That kind of information could ruin a persons life, confidentiality is
>>> truly for the protection of the individual. If you found out that the
>>> dog was removed for a completely legitimate reason and that the person
>>> was not honest with you, would you be as ready to advocate for that same
>>> person in the future?Even if the person had changed their life around
>>> and had gotten things straightened out, no longer had a psychological
>>> disorder, a drug abuse problem, issues with alcohol, and were no longer
>>> involved with criminal activity etc. They would still be the same person
>>> or persons that talked you in to sticking your neck out and you probably
>>> would not support them. So by maintaining confidentiality, the
>>> individual is protected, no information is released and that's probably
>>> better for them. They get to put the blame on someone else and look like
>>> the victim.
>>>
>>> I still stand by the idea that if in deed the dog was taken for no
>>> reason, getting the story into the public eye would be the best way to
>>> get anything done about it. If the person has nothing to hide, if they
>>> are being completely honest and the story they tell is fact, well...
>>> have them show their face and stand by their words.
>>>
>>> Bryan
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Marion Gwizdala" <blind411 at verizon.net>
>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2011 11:36 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] FIDELCO ownership rights and other things.
>>>
>>>
>>>> Dear All,
>>>> I will only say that we have attempted to get Fidelco's side of the
>>>> story and, in spite of a signed release of information, Mr. Russman
>>>> refused to talk to us about it. As this message so astutely stated, it
>>>> makes us wonder what they are hiding. A great deal, we have come to
>>>> find out, as more consumer come forward with similar stories. If it
>>>> were an isolated incident, I would question the details. As a pattern
>>>> evolves and we find credible information with physical evidence, it
>>>> supports our action.
>>>>
>>>> Fraternally yours,
>>>> Marion Gwizdala
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Brenda" <bjnite at windstream.net>
>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2011 11:45 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] FIDELCO ownership rights and other things.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Brian
>>>>> Well said.
>>>>> I have asked what the person who had her dog removed from Fidelco was
>>>>> actually told with no response - makes me wonder. I do not think the
>>>>> whole story has been relayed about the incidents at Leader either. I
>>>>> find it amazing that a dog could be removed with little warning and no
>>>>> cause - something is missing OR at least it would be nice to hear from
>>>>> the school and the handler (both sides of the story) so an informed
>>>>> opinion could be made about a certain school.
>>>>>
>>>>> Maybe in the survey that is being prepared there could be an entry of
>>>>> how many dogs have been repo'd by the school and the reason the school
>>>>> gave for the forced return.
>>>>>
>>>>> Another survey question would be what is the reason for your ownership
>>>>> policy? Why do you require a handler to wait two years before
>>>>> awarding ownership?
>>>>>
>>>>> Brenda
>>>>> Brenda
>>>>>
>>>>> On 2/3/2011 11:04 AM, Bryan Brown wrote:
>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The day after Marion posted the message about the woman who
>>>>>> had their dog
>>>>>> repossessed by FIDELCO for no reason... I received a call from a
>>>>>> FIDELCO trainer. She was
>>>>>> calling to find out if she could meet with me for a follow up visit.
>>>>>> I
>>>>>> scheduled a time to meet with her on the seventeenth of February,
>>>>>> since I am
>>>>>> not in what you might say is FIDELCO's traditional service area this
>>>>>> will be
>>>>>> the first follow up visit that I have had. They have offered, but I
>>>>>> haven't had any
>>>>>> problems that I thought needed a trainers help with so I declined.
>>>>>> Any time
>>>>>> I have ever had an issue or question I just call out to FIDELCO and I
>>>>>> get
>>>>>> put right through to someone who can help. I've never had to request
>>>>>> follow
>>>>>> up, I guess I've been lucky and not had any issues as a working team
>>>>>> that I couldn't deal with myself. I'd be comfortable if FIDELCO
>>>>>> called and
>>>>>> said hey we're five minutes from your house and we want to see your
>>>>>> dog. That would be great, I don't have any reasons to be anything
>>>>>> other than proud of my dog. They were however nice enough to give me
>>>>>> more than two weeks notice and make sure that it worked with my
>>>>>> schedule. I'm far from intimidated, in fact I'm
>>>>>> excited, I know that I have nothing to worry about, my dog is
>>>>>> healthy, he is in great shape , we are a great working team and I'll
>>>>>> be proud to show
>>>>>> off our teamwork to someone who knows how much it takes to develop
>>>>>> that type
>>>>>> of relationship with a dog. My only concern is that the trainer might
>>>>>> not be
>>>>>> able to stick around and have dinner with myself and my family.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's unfortunate that anyone would ever have their dog unjustly
>>>>>> removed from
>>>>>> them and I'm not sure how that would benefit the program, imagine the
>>>>>> implications if a person could prove those allegations, for instance
>>>>>> in front of a jury? Why aren't the people who have supposedly had
>>>>>> their dogs removed
>>>>>> making a public show of such an unjust action? I know if that
>>>>>> happened to me
>>>>>> I'd be the first to call the sheriff, my vet, my attorney and the
>>>>>> media, I'd make a
>>>>>> huge stink of it, but I am confident that I have done nothing to
>>>>>> bring such
>>>>>> action on myself. , maybe the parties in question are not quite so
>>>>>> confident? Is it possible that the inflammatory comments that Marion
>>>>>> has made about FIDELCO and Mr. Russman are rooted in limited
>>>>>> information and Mr. Russman's reservations to bow down to the big bad
>>>>>> NFB?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> as far as I know... I own Tarik, do I think I have that right, "yes"
>>>>>> at this
>>>>>> point after five years it would be cruel to remove him from me, I am
>>>>>> as much
>>>>>> his life as he is mine. Do I think I deserved to own him upon
>>>>>> graduation, my
>>>>>> answer is no. I feel as though having a dog is a wonderful privilege
>>>>>> in the
>>>>>> case of a FIDELCO dog it's a 45,000 dollar privilege and I am the
>>>>>> custodian of that privilege. It is my responsibility to hold up my
>>>>>> end of
>>>>>> the bargain. I knew what it was when I got the dog and I was
>>>>>> confident in my
>>>>>> ability to hold up my end of the bargain throughout his working life.
>>>>>> That's
>>>>>> why I signed my name on the line.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I think making negative comments about any given program in a public
>>>>>> forum
>>>>>> without first hand experience is wrong and only serves to tarnish the
>>>>>> program. If people have complaints so be it, but unless the
>>>>>> complaints are coming directly from the people making them, the
>>>>>> information has probably been spun and is most certainly one sided.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm not sure why anyone sees fit to vilify any guide dog program.
>>>>>> all the people that work so hard to provide us with these wonderful
>>>>>> animals aren't doing it for the money. I'm fairly sure that the puppy
>>>>>> raisers aren't pulling down huge salaries, and that the trainers
>>>>>> surely aren't earning six figures, I see that they are doing it
>>>>>> because they are genuinely good people, and that they either have a
>>>>>> passion for helping, or dogs, or both!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Why is it that I see such a militant attitude with so much of the
>>>>>> NFB? I know it's a strong advocacy group, but I personally don't want
>>>>>> to be advocated for by a group that comes across so negatively. We've
>>>>>> become a society of victims, everything is always somebody else's
>>>>>> fault and there is always someone out to get you, I see it in
>>>>>> strangers and people I know and love. People have to start standing
>>>>>> up for themselves again and taking responsibility for their own
>>>>>> actions.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Bryan
>>>>>> -----
>>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>
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