[nagdu] clicker training and echolocation

[Julie J.]

thanks Dar!  I thought about some sort of foot sound or even the tap of 
the cane tip, but what I am understanding from very experienced 
echolocation is that you don't get quite as useful information because 
of the angles of the sound.  If the sound originates  and is captured 
from approximately the same location you get more accurate info.

I experimented a tiny bit with it yesterday and I think when I learn 
this skill, I am going to use my cane for the majority of the training.  
I don't want to confuse Monty if I become uncertain or frustrated.  I 
think once I get over the initial learning curve it will be no problem 
working Monty and using this technique together.

Cindy, Yes this technique is called a lot of different things, flash 
sonar, echolocation, perceptual something or another and others I'm 
sure.  As far as I can tell it all means pretty much the same thing, 
getting information about your environment through the use of sound, 
specifically how sound waves change as they bounce off something or are 
blocked by something.

I think we all pick up on this technique a bit, even sighted people do.  
Watch people as they enter a building with a really high ceiling.  the 
moment they walk in the door many will look up.  The difference in the 
sound is obvious once you step inside and the sighted folks look up for 
that visual confirmation.

Julie



> I have no problem with you doing this at all, when you are using your 
> dog.
> Where I had the problem is when folks just use this training with no 
> cane or dog.
> Then I grumble giggle.
> Now this sounds silly but will call it to your attention.
> If you remember in the sixties we wore the penny loafers to have the 
> click sound now if you get dansko shoes lots of tenis shoes clogs, 
> they have the same sound as the penny loafer.
> then you can hear the echo as well.
> I love that.
> Just another thought.
> Let us know how it all works for you.
> I may not do this correctly, where if I don't know for sure where I am 
> I will do the click with my tung.
> No one has to know what I am doing.
> Have fun.
> Original message:
>> Hello all!
>
>> I am thinking of learning better echo location skills to help me be a
>> better traveler, especially in outdoor off road settings.  I am
>> specifically thinking of the technique called flash sonar taught by
>> World Access for the Blind.   It's the tongue click technique where you
>> listen to the echoes to get pretty detailed information about your
>> environment.
>
>> I understand that this technique has been met with skepticism in the
>> past.  I understand that it isn't for everyone.  I feel though that it
>> will give me added information about my environment, allowing me to
>> explore and challenge what I previously thought would be difficult or
>> impossible.
>
>> I am not giving up working with a guide dog.  I plan to use this skill
>> to compliment my use of cane and dog, not to replace them.   I am a good
>> traveler now, but there are things I would like to do or do with more
>> accuracy and ease than I am able to do now, camping, hiking, roller
>> skating, archery, moving through airports, outdoor festivals, etc and
>> perhaps riding a bike.
>
>> So my main question is to those of you who use clicker training with
>> your dogs, especially those who use the tongue click.  Am I going to
>> confuse Monty with the echolocation clicks since he has been trained
>> that is a marker signal that he has done something I wanted?   I'm
>> thinking I can go back to the very first lesson of clicker training
>> where you teach the dog that click means treat, except this time I will
>> mix up tongue clicks with mechanical clicks only giving treats for the
>> mechanical clicks to teach him that tongue clicks are no longer 
>> rewarded.
>
>> I would also like to know if anyone has experience with using advanced
>> echo location with your guide dog.  How has it helped you?  Have you
>> encountered any problems?  Have you discovered you are able to do things
>> you never thought possible?
>
>> Thanks for any thoughts or ideas,
>> Julie
>
>
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