[NAGDU] {Spam?} Re: Use of treats during training

[Tami Jarvis]

Dan,

No, there is no life before coffee. Life on other planets, then, would 
occur only in the presence of coffee.

I'm not a program, but I do use treats liberally during training. My 
poodles aren't that food motivated, so I can go nuts with food rewards, 
lures and bribes while the pup is young and hungry, then let the dog 
phase out the frequency. I also use the clicker or a verbal marker in 
association with food rewards, and I tend to keep up a lot of praise and 
clicking even after the treats have been phased out. I do usually keep 
treats with me for this and that, but by the time the dog is pretty much 
trained, I'm not forking out for every little thing. I also don't treat 
every time I click or praise after awhile. Some people do, but I find 
that once the click or verbal marker is associated with reward, a random 
reinforcement does the trick. Poodles like to impress, so to them the 
cheerleading seems to be its own reward.

Okay, so beneath the purely behavioral aspects of treat-based training, 
there's brain chemistry. The food reward causes happy brain chemistry, 
thus reinforcing the motivation to repeat the behavior that is rewarded 
and enhance learning and all that jazz. Theoretically, the happy brain 
chemistry starts happening with the behavior, so then the food reward is 
superfluous. The happy juice is also associated with the praise or click 
or whatever, so that's why the clicker works, as well as praise, and why 
the behavior will continue to be repeated after the reward has been 
phased out. Random reinforcement will keep the behavior happening, also.

I think my dogs love me in their own doggy way, and so I guess they do 
doggy things out of love. But guiding isn't a natural doggy thing, and I 
don't think it translates to love. The dog has to do a lot of things a 
dog would never do while foregoing tons of things dogs are naturally 
highly motivated to do. I think of the training in part as harnessing 
natural social instincts and directing them into the group of behaviors 
that adds up to guiding. That includes loyalty to the pack, which in a 
guide team is a pack of two. Dogs also like to go-see-do together in a 
coordinated way, so I think to them that's what we're doing. When 
they're just being dogs, that involves a lot of sniffing, so that part 
of it bums them out some. If I've done my job right in training, the dog 
knows his role and my role and is comfortable with that. But he still 
needs to have a motivation to put all of his attention to guiding my 
feet and watching out for my head and observing traffic and all that 
stuff instead of sniffing and barking and marking everything. So I built 
up that motivation with lots and lots of reward, and I still praise 
frequently and offer rewards now and then to keep reinforcing all the 
good things he does.

hth

Tami





On 06/26/2016 05:25 AM, Dan Weiner via NAGDU wrote:
> Hello, beautiful people.
> Dan W.  from Florida withies Royal Majesty, Parker Dog here.
> Well I'm wondering about something, for example, is there life on other
> planets, and is there life before coffee--smile.
> Well, all right, seriously...I've heard a lot of comments and talk about the
> fact that many of the guide dog programs are using a significant amount of
> food rewards during training.
> I don't mean the occasional treat that I've always used, say to reward for
> finding something or whatever, but say, treats every time a dog finds an up
> curb or down curb, carrying around a treat bag and so on.
> I'm wondering what peoples' experiences have been.
> I've heard that a majority of US programs are doing this now...and as I said
> it seems to be a lot, not just the occasional reward.
> So what happens if you can't give the dog a treat every time, will the dogs
> get used to having treats phased out? And what about a dog who might already
> be food distracted, couldn't that lead to scavenging, or generally, well
> silliness--smile.
>
> It does concern me.
>
> As I've said I have always incorporated treats in my method but occasionally
> as a special reward, and it would seem to me that a dog would need to be
> able to work for praise and just for the love of working...tell me what
> everyone thinks and what's going on.
>
>
> I hope everyone's doing great.
>
> Dan the man and his four-legged side-kick
>
> dcwein at dcwein.cnc.net
>
>
>
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