[NAGDU] the two questions

Wed Oct 11 18:48:19 UTC 2017

Miranda,

It still is up to the business to decide if they will allow that.

If it's the guide dog that veers because of the presence of another dog, 
it's not a problem with the other dog and has nothing to do with whether 
the other dog is a service dog or not. It's the responsibility of the 
guide dog handler to, well, handle the guide dog. It's no one else's 
fault if your dog is distracted, and it's up to you as the handler to 
work with the dog on remaining undistracted. Yes, with a new young dog, 
that is difficult, and they can put you on your butt or your nose or 
whatever. I'm not sure it makes a difference then if it's a dog that is 
so much more interesting than the job or if it's a random patch of weeds 
with a good smell in it. In general, I've nearly come acropper more 
often from interesting patches of weeds or grass than from dogs, but I 
dont' blame the weeds. I work with my dog.

So if I'm in the store, and my dog veers towards another dog in the 
store, guess what? My dog is the one interfering with that dog and 
possibly distracting it, possibly posing a danger to the other handler. 
Not the other way around. If the other dog was in the cart, the one 
thing we do know is that it was not coming up to the guide dog in 
question. You don't mention barking, so I'm guessing it wasn't. It might 
have been making goo-goo eyes at the guide dog,but it's pretty hard to 
claim that as active interference or undue distraction.

I've noticed that a lot of tales of "fake" service dogs causing a 
problem for guide dog users is that the guide dog gets distracted. But 
in the description of the incident, it seems very clear that the other 
dog was just there. But the guide dog misbehaved, in some cases the 
handler almost got hurt or even got slightly hurt by the guide dog's 
distraction. Therefor, somehow, the other dog is a fake. Um... The 
misbehavior of any given guide dog does not affect the status of another 
dog, no matter where it is. Making a fuss with the manager won't make 
the guide dog behave, either. It will give said manager a very bad 
impression of service dog users in general, which can cause problems for 
them down the line. Been there, smilingly demonstrating that guide dog 
users can be mature and even polite while hearing *all* about the one 
that came before me and caused problems. I've also heard from service 
dog users who have been on the receiving end of guide dog users blaming 
then for the guide dog's bad behavior and causing problems for them and 
their legitimate service dogs. It's not okay.

Tami

On 10/11/2017 09:53 AM, Miranda via NAGDU wrote:
> You should point out that this "service dog" was, according to what the owner told you herself, an emotional support animal that she had in a cart. Am I correct in recalling that by law, emotional support animals are not considered service animals? Please, do correct me if I am wrong.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Oct 11, 2017, at 12:42 PM, Andy B. via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>
>> When I took a trip to Best Buy last week, Alec detoured from his job because an elderly lady had her "service dog" with her. Alec's performance nearly landed me on my rear end. After getting him back under complete control, I confronted a manager. His predicament is that he cannot by law interfere with the daily operations of the store. In other words, store staff cannot by law, ask these two questions of every person who walks in with an animal. His argument also included the disclaimer that most employees do not receive training on how to determine a valid service animal from an invalid one. Thus, the store is allowed to have any animal if it appears to be an official service animal. His claim is that anyone who brings a service animal to the store must have it under complete control at all times, no matter what type of situation the handler, the service animal, a staff member, or other customer puts the team into. He also stated that he cannot force employees to ask the two questions unless there is a good suspicion that the animal is invalid. Since vested animals look official, come with paperwork (even if not certified by an accredited body), he cannot suspect invalid service animals. Thus, preventing an employee from investigating the problem further.
>> This statement bothered me because stores allow any animal from the public to enter forbidden territory and puts valid service dogs at risk with the law. Too bad we can't do something about it.
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Julie Johnson via NAGDU
>> Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2017 11:37 AM
>> To: the National Association of Guide Dog Users NAGDU Mailing List <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Cc: Julie Johnson <julielj at neb.rr.com>
>> Subject: [NAGDU] the two questions
>>
>> I think most everyone here knows the two questions the DOJ’s guidance on service animals under the ADA allows.
>> Is that a service dog?
>> and
>> What tasks does the dog perform?
>>
>> However, my understanding is that it is the business that can ask these questions.  These questions aren’t open for anyone to ask and answers be required.   So I’m thinking that if there is an issue with another dog in a store, it isn’t up to the other shoppers to be asking the two questions.  It is up to the store management to ask and deal with any issues that come up.
>>
>> Thoughts?
>> Julie
>> On The Go with Guide-and-Service-Dogs.com http://www.guide-and-service-dogs.com
>> also find my products in the Blind Mice Mega Mall <https://www.blindmicemegamall.com/bmm/shop/Directory_Departments?storeid=1916046>
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