[NAGDU] Laws and enforcement

Fri Jan 26 01:24:41 UTC 2018

Not all states do, but the ADA pretty much covers it. Sadly, the DOJ is the entity in question for that, but for state laws, and even local ones, rarely do the police know the laws tha they are tasked with enforcing. So it's a valid question.  

But before we talk about enforcement of laws, can we talk about exercising of rights?

I don't even mean us exercising our rights, but rather, businesses exercising theirs. Until that starts happening, I'm really not at all interested in more of the burden of proving *anything* falling to us. We didn't create the problem...well...most of us didn't, anyway. And it is absolutely unfair that the bulk, if not the entirety, of fixing the problem by submitting to more ID requirements, or certifications, or a disability registry, or whatever remedies people are thinking up, focus on us. Not on the businesses who don't exercise their rights. Not on the people fraudulently claiming disability status, or on disabled people either fraudulently claiming training their dogs don't have or who irresponsibly work dogs that clearly do not have proper social or behavioral expectations. Plain and simple, until these parties step up to the plate, especially the businesses who are as affected as we are, I'm really not interested in more laws that will restrict my freedom of movement. 

--
Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
Mobile (preferred): (814) 431-0962
Phone: (814) 860-3194
Email: buddy at brannan.name
"We are all just walking each other home." 

> On Jan 25, 2018, at 2:47 PM, Christopher O'meally via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> all states do not have these laws yet, in fact most don't.  But while
> your correct in your example, who is actually inforcing these laws?
> 
> On 1/25/18, Tracy Carcione via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> It's not new laws that are required; it's enforcement of the laws we have.
>> If there's a problem with speeding in my town, the town council doesn't need
>> to pass new laws.  They get the police to enforce the laws we already have,
>> so people know there are real consequences to them for speeding.
>> This is the same thing, IMO.
>> Tracy
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Julie Johnson via
>> NAGDU
>> Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2018 1:58 PM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Cc: Julie Johnson
>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Disappointed in Guiding Eyes for the Blind's Response
>> 
>> I don't think you are understanding my point. Accountability doesn't mean
>> passing more laws.  Paperwork doesn't solve behavior problems.
>> 
>> Accountability means the person is given a fine, has to leave the
>> establishment or is banned from ever coming back if the behavior is a repeat
>> offense.
>> 
>> If the current laws aren't working, passing more laws isn't likely to work
>> either.  It's like saying "stop" or I'll say "stop" again.  It's laughable.
>> We need to be saying "stop" or you will have to leave.
>> 
>> Julie
>> On The Go with Guide-and-Service-Dogs.com
>> http://www.guide-and-service-dogs.com
>> also find my products in the Blind Mice Mega Mall
>> <https://www.blindmicemegamall.com/bmm/shop/Directory_Departments?storeid=1916046>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Christopher O'meally via NAGDU
>> Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2018 11:59 AM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Cc: Christopher O'meally
>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Disappointed in Guiding Eyes for the Blind's Response
>> 
>> if holding people accountable is the only suggested plan, I don't see this
>> going anywhere.  several states have imposed laws against this, but I see
>> mor fakes in public now than ever.  BTW you can buy fake tags.
>> 
>> On 1/25/18, Julie Johnson via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>> Okay, my suggested compromise is showing the rabies tag the dog is
>>> wearing at the airport when I arrive for my scheduled flight. This
>>> will avoid giving advance notice, will have no burden of additional
>>> paperwork, will not
>>> 
>>> cause me to pay for additional vet appointments and will treat me like
>>> other
>>> 
>>> passengers.
>>> 
>>> Perhaps people don't know some facts about vaccines.  Only a vet can
>>> give the rabies vaccine.  In most/all states the rabies vaccine is the
>>> only legally required vaccine, typically every three years. Vaccines
>>> such as distemper, parvo etc. are suggested by vets, but not legally
>>> required.
>>> these diseases are not communicable to people like rabies.  You can give
>>> vaccines like distemper at home yourself, saving time and money.   Also
>>> causing a problem if you choose to exercise this entirely legal option
>>> and then fly using Delta.
>>> 
>>> There is increasing evidence that giving vaccines every year is
>>> actually harmful.  Numerous studies show that vaccines are active in
>>> the body far longer than a single year.  Over vaccinating can cause
>>> physical and behavior
>>> 
>>> problems.
>>> 
>>> I am bothered by all the comments stating that I have this health info
>>> anyway, so it's no bother to show it at the airport.  It feels very
>>> selfish.
>>> 
>>> Because it's no bother to me personally, I'm not going to think about
>>> anyone
>>> 
>>> else or the broader implications.
>>> 
>>> If we want to make progress on this issue, we are going to have to
>>> start thinking inclusively of all people with all types of
>>> disabilities, at all income levels, in big cities and small, with and
>>> without a computer, with big dogs and small, with school provided ID's
>>> and not, doing all sorts of tasks and with varying needs.
>>> 
>>> The only way I see to do this is to hold people accountable for the
>>> behavior
>>> 
>>> of their dog.  There seems to be a significant barrier in this area.
>>> There
>>> 
>>> are already provisions to remove a person or service dog if their
>>> behavior is atrocious.  As a society we are reluctant to follow
>>> through.  As a society we make more laws, restricting freedoms even
>>> more, because we are afraid of confronting people.
>>> 
>>> I'd like to see educational materials on ways businesses can approach
>>> a person with a service or emotional support dog that is behaving badly.
>>> Businesses need very specific, how to, info on addressing this
>>> situation in
>>> 
>>> a way that is respectful, does not escalate the situation and protects
>>> the business from a retaliatory lawsuit.
>>> 
>>> In all my years of working with guide dogs, reading service dog news
>>> articles, attending various conferences etc.  never once have I come
>>> across
>>> 
>>> an instance where a person was asked to remove their out of control
>>> dog that
>>> 
>>> was handled respectfully and legally.  There is not a single example I can
>>> point to to demonstrate the right thing to do.   News stories highlight
>>> out
>>> 
>>> of control dogs, arrogant people and vague demands that something
>>> needs to be done.
>>> 
>>> Yes, something needs to be done and that something is to help
>>> businesses feel empowered to follow through with what the law currently
>>> provides.
>>> 
>>> The problem is the behavior of some dogs and the only way to solve
>>> that problem is to do something to address behavior.  Requiring proof of
>>> vaccinations or health has very little to do with behavior.   I believe
>>> once
>>> 
>>> people face actual consequences for their choice to not get their dog
>>> appropriate training they will think seriously about having a repeat
>>> experience.  Also once the news starts reporting what happens to
>>> people who
>>> 
>>> aren't being responsible, the word will get around and people who want
>>> to take advantage will start thinking seriously about their choices.
>>> 
>>> Humans are motivated by pain or pleasure.  To get lasting results the
>>> pain of taking an untrained dog on a plane has to outweigh the
>>> pleasure they get
>>> 
>>> from having the dog along.  That isn't going to be accomplished with
>>> some paperwork.  It will happen when people experience consequences
>>> for their poor choices.
>>> 
>>> Julie
>>> On The Go with Guide-and-Service-Dogs.com
>>> http://www.guide-and-service-dogs.com
>>> also find my products in the Blind Mice Mega Mall
>>> <https://www.blindmicemegamall.com/bmm/shop/Directory_Departments?stor
>>> eid=1916046>
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> NAGDU mailing list
>>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> NAGDU:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/chris.omeally%40gma
>>> il.com
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> Very Respectfully,
>> 
>> Christopher O’Meally.
>> 
>> NVB of Virginia 2016 leadership fellow.
>> 
>> Lead instructor and CEO of Access Tech Media INC.
>> 
>> Contract Closeout Specialist, Defense Contract Management Agency.
>> 
>> Chris.omeally at gmail.com
>> 
>> (804)658-6668
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> NAGDU mailing list
>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/julielj%40neb.rr.com
>> 
>> 
>> -----
>> No virus found in this message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>> Version: 2012.0.2265 / Virus Database: 4365/14844 - Release Date: 01/25/18
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> NAGDU mailing list
>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/carcione%40access.net
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> NAGDU mailing list
>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/chris.omeally%40gmail.com
>> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Very Respectfully,
> 
> Christopher O’Meally.
> 
> NVB of Virginia 2016 leadership fellow.
> 
> Lead instructor and CEO of Access Tech Media INC.
> 
> Contract Closeout Specialist, Defense Contract Management Agency.
> 
> Chris.omeally at gmail.com
> 
> (804)658-6668
> 
> _______________________________________________
> NAGDU mailing list
> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/buddy%40brannan.name