[NAGDU] Foreign certifications and the related questions
Lyn Gwizdak
gwizdaklyn at gmail.com
Sat Jun 15 03:02:31 UTC 2019
Hi Peter,
When I have flown, the TSA agents really enjoy the patting down of the dog.
The dog enjoys the nice attention he gets and happily wags an wiggles a
bit. I have gotten the dog-loving agents. And they tell me what a nice well
behaved dog I have. I have never been at Security when one of the
ill-behaved fakes are there. I think the general public think we have magic
dogs that behave. They think of their dogs who have never had a lick of
training. These are not the people who drag out their aggressive mutts in
public. They think it is perfectly okay to let their dogs attack ours.
Lyn and Aristotle
On Thu, Jun 13, 2019, 6:11 PM Mike Hingson via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
wrote:
> Actually, airports by in large are covered by the ADA as they are physical
> pieces of property owned not by airlines, but by other entities. ACAA only
> comes into play with specific places that may be governed only by airlines.
> This is why, for example, we cannot litigate against the fact that airlines
> do not provide accessible kiosks since they are owned by the airlines.
> However, at McCarron Airport in Las Vegas, as I understand it, the kiosks
> are owned by the airport and thus come under the ADA.
>
>
> Best Regards,
>
>
> Michael Hingson
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Danielle Sykora via
> NAGDU
> Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2019 6:03 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users <
> nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Danielle Sykora <dsykora29 at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Foreign certifications and the related questions
>
> Airports and other places of public accommodation are different in the
> US, because the ACAA covers both SDs and ESAs. The majority of dogs in
> airports that are misbehaved are, on paper, legitimate ESAs, who do
> need documentation. It's a whole different dynamic in airports,
> because you have to address not only SDs but
> ESAs, who don't necessarily need any training at all.
>
> Even if there was mandatory service dog certification, it wouldn't do
> much in airports. ESA handlers, in theory, already need documentation
> and well, clearly that doesn't work at all because it doesn't address
> the dog's behavior.
>
> Danielle
>
> On 6/13/19, Bonnie Mosen via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> > Hi Peter and all.
> > Yes, I get the good behaviour comments as well.
> > Considering what I've seen and heard about in US airports. Their comments
> > are troubling but valid.
> > I had an interesting experience in Newark a few months ago.
> > The security dogs were out, and the TSA didn't want my dog going near
> them
> > so routed us a different way.
> > My dog would have distracted them from their job.
> > Made perfect sense since those dogs work differently from ours.
> > But getting back to what they see on a daily basis, its barking,
> growling,
> > lunging, emptying in the airport etc.
> > To me that's a security risk, and passenger and dog should be removed
> from
> > plane or airport.
> >
> > Bonnie
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Peter Wolf via NAGDU
> > Sent: Friday, 14 June 2019 12:24 PM
> > To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
> > Cc: Peter Wolf <pwolf1 at wolfskills.com>
> > Subject: [NAGDU] Foreign certifications and the related questions
> >
> > Hi all. I am with you on this Michael Hingson. We who team with a dog
> for
> > service have (or should have) impeccably trained and operating service
> dogs
> > and be left alone to do our daily life. Anyone who fakes a service dog
> > should be fined and punished by law. Faking is unethical and immoral and
> > that specifically is what needs to be addressed. Full stop.
> >
> > There are a few steps down from my soapbox, hang on a moment while I
> make my
> > way back down. Thanks friends.
> >
> > Danielle, I also appreciated what you said. I don’t know what’s going on
> > regarding variations in service dog behavior. Each time - and I mean
> this -
> > I cannot recall an exception - that we go through security at an airport
> and
> > walk through a metal detector, we receive comments from TSA agents. It
> is
> > always about how well behaved the dogs are. I mean, as if this is
> something
> > new to them. What’s up with that?
> >
> > Between Metukah and me, we’ve had enough radiation doses to light a
> city.
> > So we only walk through metal detectors, not scanners. This means that I
> > have Metukah sit or stand outside the detector with me. First, I give my
> > folded cane to them to send through the X-ray machine. Next, I always
> take
> > off the gentle leader, because whatever metal it uses always does
> alarm. I
> > always send that one through. I generally strip anything else with
> hardware
> > off and put it through, except that her collar never alarms, and the
> leash
> > has brass, so it doesn’t either. The leash loop end has an climber’s
> > aluminum carabiner on it, which generally clips on my belt. I just
> double
> > the leash and clip the finer onto her somewhere so it won’t drag. Then
> she
> > waits while I walk through the detector, to the agent on the other side.
> > Then I call her. She slowly walks through to me and stops. A night
> ago, in
> > security to board a jet back from Zurich, they wanted her collar off,
> too.
> > And so she wore nothing at all for this. Andrea does the same with Kira,
> > except no cane of course in her case. When they walk through to us,
> that’s
> > when the comments about good behavior begin, always coming from one to
> three
> > agents, strangely, as if this is something new to them. It always has us
> > curious, what kind of a behavior range they must regularly encounter.
> I’d
> > be curious to hear what you guys have experienced with this too.
> >
> > Take care,
> > Peter
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >> On Jun 13, 2019, at 8:00 AM, nagdu-request at nfbnet.org wrote:
> >>
> >> Send NAGDU mailing list submissions to
> >> nagdu at nfbnet.org
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> >> than "Re: Contents of NAGDU digest..."
> >>
> >>
> >> Today's Topics:
> >>
> >> 1. Re: National TV and on-line on demand: Australia's laws
> >> failing to keep up with the rise of assistance animals (Lyn
> Gwizdak)
> >> 2. Re: National TV and on-line on demand: Australia's laws
> >> failing to keep up with the rise of assistance animals
> >> (mike at michaelhingson.com)
> >> 3. Re: National TV and on-line on demand: Australia's laws
> >> failing to keep up with the rise of assistance animals
> >> (Danielle Sykora)
> >> 4. Re: National TV and on-line on demand: Australia's laws
> >> failing to keep up with the rise of assistance animals (Dan Weiner)
> >> 5. differences between male and female guide dogs (Madison Martin)
> >> 6. Re: differences between male and female guide dogs (Sherry Gomes)
> >> 7. Re: National TV and on-line on demand: Australia's laws
> >> failing to keep up with the rise of assistance animals
> >> (sheila leigland)
> >> 8. Re: differences between male and female guide dogs
> >> (Elizabeth Campbell)
> >> 9. Re: differences between male and female guide dogs (sunshine)
> >> 10. Re: National TV and on-line on demand: Australia's laws
> >> failing to keep up with the rise of assistance animals (Bonnie
> Mosen)
> >> 11. Re: National TV and on-line on demand: Australia's laws
> >> failing to keep up with the rise of assistance animals (Bonnie
> Mosen)
> >> 12. Fake service dogs: a positive story (Tara Briggs)
> >> 13. Re: differences between male and female guide dogs (Martine Abel)
> >> 14. Lab/goldens (Tracy Carcione)
> >>
> >>
> >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 1
> >> Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2019 09:29:59 -0700
> >> From: Lyn Gwizdak <gwizdaklyn at gmail.com>
> >> To: NAGDU List Posting <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> >> Cc: Bonnie Mosen <bonnie at mosen.org>, Tracy Carcione
> >> <carcione at access.net>
> >> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] National TV and on-line on demand: Australia's
> >> laws failing to keep up with the rise of assistance animals
> >> Message-ID:
> >> <CAHTx+LPOGdduY8wi5hzdtswBZ_aRo9Hvt7d1=
> V2jYG6YnSF4_g at mail.gmail.com>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
> >>
> >> Hey Bonnie! Maybe we will have to go the certification route to address
> >> the
> >> issue of fakes here in the US. It is so out of control here. Do you have
> >> to
> >> show something that proves your dog is the real deal when you go to
> public
> >> places. Or is the medallion visible to the public? My dog has the
> Service
> >> Dog tag on his collar but nobody seems to notice it. I am always being
> >> asked if my dog is a service dog. Even when he is guiding me on the bus.
> >> Then the fakes get on and I dont hear the driver ask about some little
> >> thing that is in a doggie stroller.
> >>
> >> Lyn and Aristotle who is a real Seeing Eye dog
> >>
> >> On Tue, Jun 11, 2019, 9:01 PM Bonnie Mosen via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Hi Tracy and others. I can't speak for Australia, but I can tell you
> how
> >>> it works here in NZ.
> >>> I moved here six years ago with my then 6-yo black Lab, Lizzie from The
> >>> Seeing Eye.
> >>> In February, I trained with my current dog, Eclipse, at TSE.
> >>> NZ does have a small school which is a member of the International
> Guide
> >>> Dog Federation.
> >>> Any guide dog, whether it be owner trained or from a standard school
> has
> >>> to be certified to work in NZ by the NZ guide dog school.
> >>> This also allows follow-up from an NZ guide dog trainer as follow-up
> from
> >>> a US school isn't possible.
> >>> My understanding this is the case for all other service dogs. They have
> >>> to
> >>> be certified by whatever school here in NZ would train that sort of
> dog.
> >>> From what I have heard, emotional support animals just aren't really
> >>> recognized here.
> >>> Thankfully, we don't have the issue of fake service animals yet, and
> I'm
> >>> hoping our strict certification is the reason why.
> >>> Eclipse wears a medallion from the NZ school, but I have never been
> >>> challenged on her legitimacy as a service animal.
> >>> I do have to have a follow-up annually with a guide dog instructor
> here,
> >>> and I can get assistance with learning new routes or with training
> >>> issues.
> >>> They have been very accepting of my decision to continue to train with
> >>> dogs from the US, and I don't feel I have been treated any different.
> >>> Cheers
> >>> Bonnie and Eclipse
> >>> I know of one owner trainer here, and that person did have to have
> their
> >>> dog certified by the guide dog school.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Tracy Carcione via
> >>> NAGDU
> >>> Sent: Wednesday, 12 June 2019 12:48 AM
> >>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users' <
> >>> nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> >>> Cc: Tracy Carcione <carcione at access.net>
> >>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] National TV and on-line on demand: Australia's
> laws
> >>> failing to keep up with the rise of assistance animals
> >>>
> >>> It's my understanding that, at least for guide dogs, it's different in
> >>> Australia, the UK, and lots of other countries, than it is here in the
> >>> US.
> >>> There's only one guide dog school there, with several branches. I'm
> not
> >>> sure owner-trained dogs are "legal". It seems to me that the guide dog
> >>> school clamps down hard on any competition. So, for guide dogs, the
> >>> school
> >>> would issue an ID, and that would be that.
> >>> I'd really like to know if my understanding is correct.
> >>> Tracy
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Tara Briggs
> >>> via NAGDU
> >>> Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 2019 8:37 AM
> >>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> >>> Cc: Tara Briggs
> >>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] National TV and on-line on demand: Australia's
> laws
> >>> failing to keep up with the rise of assistance animals
> >>>
> >>> Thank you for sharing this Paul. I am beginning to wonder if this is a
> >>> good idea. For those who haven?t read the article, it basically argues
> >>> for
> >>> some type of certification essentially saying you need to have a
> drivers
> >>> license type of ID card to have a service dog. I guess In an ideal
> world,
> >>> businesses would kick out the wild pets. But I think that most
> businesses
> >>> are too scared to do that. My two concerns are these I want owner
> >>> trainers
> >>> who have well-trained and well behaved service dogs to have the same
> >>> rights
> >>> of access as anybody else. And there are dogs that are trained by
> >>> fantastic
> >>> schools that turn into heathens once their owners get them home. How do
> >>> we
> >>> handle that?
> >>> Tara
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Sent from my iPhone
> >>>
> >>>> On Jun 11, 2019, at 6:21 AM, Paul Harpur via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Tonight there was an hour long analysis of the practices and laws on
> >>>> disability assistance animals in Australia. The wording of the laws
> >>>> mirror the Fair Housing Act and you can see similar issues and
> >>>> different proposals for reform:
> >>>>
> https://www.sbs.com.au/news/insight/australia-s-laws-failing-to-keep-u
> >>>> p-with-the-rise-of-assistance-animals
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Dr Paul Harpur
> >>>> BBus (HRm), LLB (Hons) LLM, PhD, solicitor of the High Court of
> >>>> Australia (non-practicing) Fulbright Future Scholar<
> >>> https://www.fulbright.org.au/current-scholars/>/International
> >>> Distinguished Fellow<
> >>>
> https://www.google.com.au/search?source=hp&ei=dosPXJDEFdO89QOTu47IDw&q=burton+blatt+institute+harpur&btnK=Google+Search&oq=burton+blatt+institute+harpur&gs_l=psy-ab.3..33i160l2.1230.4556..4826...0.0..1.294.6039.0j15j14......0....1..gws-wiz.....0..0j35i39j0i131j0i22i30j0i22i10i30.B7g_g7X_Ck4
> >,
> >>> Burton Blatt Institute, SU, New York.
> >>>> Senior Lecturer
> >>>>
> >>>> TC Beirne School of Law
> >>>> The University of Queensland
> >>>> Brisbane Qld 4072 Australia
> >>>>
> >>>> T +61 7 3365 8864 M +61 417 635 609
> >>>> E p.harpur at law.uq.edu.au<mailto:p.harpur at law.uq.edu.au> TCB
> >>>> Profile<https://law.uq.edu.au/paul-harpur>/Google Citation Page
> >>>> <https://scholar.google.com.au/citations?user=6Y47my0AAAAJ&hl=en>
> >>>> CRICOS code: 00025B
> >>>>
> >>>> [https://omc.uq.edu.au/files/4097/UQEmailBannerGeneric.jpg]
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Scientia ac Labore
> >>>>
> >>>> This email (including any attached files) is intended solely for the
> >>> addressee and may contain confidential information of The University of
> >>> Queensland. If you are not the addressee, you are notified that any
> >>> transmission, distribution, printing or photocopying of this email is
> >>> prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please delete and
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> >>> do not represent the official position of The University of Queensland.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> NAGDU mailing list
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> >>>
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> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 2
> >> Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2019 10:43:57 -0700
> >> From: <mike at michaelhingson.com>
> >> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
> >> Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> >> Cc: "'Lyn Gwizdak'" <gwizdaklyn at gmail.com>, "'Tracy Carcione'"
> >> <carcione at access.net>
> >> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] National TV and on-line on demand: Australia's
> >> laws failing to keep up with the rise of assistance animals
> >> Message-ID: <005c01d52146$6a509170$3ef1b450$@michaelhingson.com>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> >>
> >> Certification is not the way to go in the U.S. The laws regarding guide
> >> and other service dogs are fine. What is needed is good education and
> >> legislation addressing fake service animals. I should not be burdened
> with
> >> any additional certification requirements to be able to take Alamo
> >> anywhere in the U.S.
> >>
> >> The problem is not with trained, (by school or owner), service animals.
> >> The solution is NOT to put more demands on us.
> >>
> >>
> >> Best Regards,
> >>
> >>
> >> Michael Hingson
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Lyn Gwizdak via
> NAGDU
> >> Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2019 9:30 AM
> >> To: NAGDU List Posting <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> >> Cc: Lyn Gwizdak <gwizdaklyn at gmail.com>; Tracy Carcione
> >> <carcione at access.net>
> >> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] National TV and on-line on demand: Australia's laws
> >> failing to keep up with the rise of assistance animals
> >>
> >> Hey Bonnie! Maybe we will have to go the certification route to address
> >> the issue of fakes here in the US. It is so out of control here. Do you
> >> have to show something that proves your dog is the real deal when you go
> >> to public places. Or is the medallion visible to the public? My dog has
> >> the Service Dog tag on his collar but nobody seems to notice it. I am
> >> always being asked if my dog is a service dog. Even when he is guiding
> me
> >> on the bus.
> >> Then the fakes get on and I dont hear the driver ask about some little
> >> thing that is in a doggie stroller.
> >>
> >> Lyn and Aristotle who is a real Seeing Eye dog
> >>
> >> On Tue, Jun 11, 2019, 9:01 PM Bonnie Mosen via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Hi Tracy and others. I can't speak for Australia, but I can tell you
> >>> how it works here in NZ.
> >>> I moved here six years ago with my then 6-yo black Lab, Lizzie from
> >>> The Seeing Eye.
> >>> In February, I trained with my current dog, Eclipse, at TSE.
> >>> NZ does have a small school which is a member of the International
> >>> Guide Dog Federation.
> >>> Any guide dog, whether it be owner trained or from a standard school
> >>> has to be certified to work in NZ by the NZ guide dog school.
> >>> This also allows follow-up from an NZ guide dog trainer as follow-up
> >>> from a US school isn't possible.
> >>> My understanding this is the case for all other service dogs. They
> >>> have to be certified by whatever school here in NZ would train that
> sort
> >>> of dog.
> >>> From what I have heard, emotional support animals just aren't really
> >>> recognized here.
> >>> Thankfully, we don't have the issue of fake service animals yet, and
> >>> I'm hoping our strict certification is the reason why.
> >>> Eclipse wears a medallion from the NZ school, but I have never been
> >>> challenged on her legitimacy as a service animal.
> >>> I do have to have a follow-up annually with a guide dog instructor
> >>> here, and I can get assistance with learning new routes or with
> training
> >>> issues.
> >>> They have been very accepting of my decision to continue to train with
> >>> dogs from the US, and I don't feel I have been treated any different.
> >>> Cheers
> >>> Bonnie and Eclipse
> >>> I know of one owner trainer here, and that person did have to have
> >>> their dog certified by the guide dog school.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Tracy Carcione via
> >>> NAGDU
> >>> Sent: Wednesday, 12 June 2019 12:48 AM
> >>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> >>> < nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> >>> Cc: Tracy Carcione <carcione at access.net>
> >>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] National TV and on-line on demand: Australia's
> >>> laws failing to keep up with the rise of assistance animals
> >>>
> >>> It's my understanding that, at least for guide dogs, it's different in
> >>> Australia, the UK, and lots of other countries, than it is here in the
> >>> US.
> >>> There's only one guide dog school there, with several branches. I'm
> >>> not sure owner-trained dogs are "legal". It seems to me that the
> >>> guide dog school clamps down hard on any competition. So, for guide
> >>> dogs, the school would issue an ID, and that would be that.
> >>> I'd really like to know if my understanding is correct.
> >>> Tracy
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Tara Briggs
> >>> via NAGDU
> >>> Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 2019 8:37 AM
> >>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> >>> Cc: Tara Briggs
> >>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] National TV and on-line on demand: Australia's
> >>> laws failing to keep up with the rise of assistance animals
> >>>
> >>> Thank you for sharing this Paul. I am beginning to wonder if this is a
> >>> good idea. For those who haven?t read the article, it basically argues
> >>> for some type of certification essentially saying you need to have a
> >>> drivers license type of ID card to have a service dog. I guess In an
> >>> ideal world, businesses would kick out the wild pets. But I think that
> >>> most businesses are too scared to do that. My two concerns are these I
> >>> want owner trainers who have well-trained and well behaved service
> >>> dogs to have the same rights of access as anybody else. And there are
> >>> dogs that are trained by fantastic schools that turn into heathens
> >>> once their owners get them home. How do we handle that?
> >>> Tara
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Sent from my iPhone
> >>>
> >>>> On Jun 11, 2019, at 6:21 AM, Paul Harpur via NAGDU
> >>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Tonight there was an hour long analysis of the practices and laws on
> >>>> disability assistance animals in Australia. The wording of the laws
> >>>> mirror the Fair Housing Act and you can see similar issues and
> >>>> different proposals for reform:
> >>>> https://www.sbs.com.au/news/insight/australia-s-laws-failing-to-keep
> >>>> -u p-with-the-rise-of-assistance-animals
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Dr Paul Harpur
> >>>> BBus (HRm), LLB (Hons) LLM, PhD, solicitor of the High Court of
> >>>> Australia (non-practicing) Fulbright Future Scholar<
> >>> https://www.fulbright.org.au/current-scholars/>/International
> >>> Distinguished Fellow<
> >>> https://www.google.com.au/search?source=hp&ei=dosPXJDEFdO89QOTu47IDw&q
> >>> =burton+blatt+institute+harpur&btnK=Google+Search&oq=burton+blatt+inst
> >>> itute+harpur&gs_l=psy-ab.3..33i160l2.1230.4556..4826...0.0..1.294.6039
> >>> .0j15j14......0....1..gws-wiz.....0..0j35i39j0i131j0i22i30j0i22i10i30.
> >>> B7g_g7X_Ck4>,
> >>> Burton Blatt Institute, SU, New York.
> >>>> Senior Lecturer
> >>>>
> >>>> TC Beirne School of Law
> >>>> The University of Queensland
> >>>> Brisbane Qld 4072 Australia
> >>>>
> >>>> T +61 7 3365 8864 M +61 417 635 609
> >>>> E p.harpur at law.uq.edu.au<mailto:p.harpur at law.uq.edu.au> TCB
> >>>> Profile<https://law.uq.edu.au/paul-harpur>/Google Citation Page
> >>>> <https://scholar.google.com.au/citations?user=6Y47my0AAAAJ&hl=en>
> >>>> CRICOS code: 00025B
> >>>>
> >>>> [https://omc.uq.edu.au/files/4097/UQEmailBannerGeneric.jpg]
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Scientia ac Labore
> >>>>
> >>>> This email (including any attached files) is intended solely for the
> >>> addressee and may contain confidential information of The University
> >>> of Queensland. If you are not the addressee, you are notified that any
> >>> transmission, distribution, printing or photocopying of this email is
> >>> prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please delete
> >>> and notify me. Unless explicitly stated, the opinions expressed in
> >>> this email do not represent the official position of The University of
> >>> Queensland.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> NAGDU mailing list
> >>>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> >>>> for
> >>> NAGDU:
> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/thflute%40gmail.c
> >>>> om
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> NAGDU mailing list
> >>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >>> NAGDU:
> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/carcione%40access.n
> >>> et
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> NAGDU mailing list
> >>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >>> NAGDU:
> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/bonnie%40mosen.org
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> NAGDU mailing list
> >>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >>> NAGDU:
> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/gwizdaklyn%40gmail.
> >>> com
> >>>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> NAGDU mailing list
> >> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >> NAGDU:
> >>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/mike%40michaelhingson.com
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 3
> >> Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2019 14:32:19 -0400
> >> From: Danielle Sykora <dsykora29 at gmail.com>
> >> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
> Users"
> >> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> >> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] National TV and on-line on demand: Australia's
> >> laws failing to keep up with the rise of assistance animals
> >> Message-ID: <6CCA6DB2-BFC4-44F0-BD9B-E55032EB760A at gmail.com>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
> >>
> >> You really can not compare the US to countries like New Zealand or
> >> Australia. These countries as far as I know only have a few service dog
> >> programs. These programs, or atleast some of them, are willing to
> certify
> >> dogs trained elsewhere. Some other countries don't even recognize
> service
> >> dogs other than guide, hearing, or mobility dogs, which pretty much
> leave
> >> anyone needing medical alert or response out of luck. This is honestly
> >> probably one of the main reason why you may not see so many fake service
> >> dogs in other countries, but the people who truly need medical alert
> dogs
> >> are not the problem.
> >> There are literally dozens of service dog programs in the US. Some,
> >> despite being ADI certified, place a high percentage of some truly
> >> horribly behaved and trained dogs. Most service dog programs in general
> >> and definitely guide dog programs specifically are not going to certify
> >> dogs trained elsewhere.
> >> Danielle
> >>
> >> Sent from my iPhone
> >>
> >>> On Jun 12, 2019, at 1:43 PM, Mike Hingson via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Certification is not the way to go in the U.S. The laws regarding guide
> >>> and other service dogs are fine. What is needed is good education and
> >>> legislation addressing fake service animals. I should not be burdened
> >>> with any additional certification requirements to be able to take Alamo
> >>> anywhere in the U.S.
> >>>
> >>> The problem is not with trained, (by school or owner), service animals.
> >>> The solution is NOT to put more demands on us.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Best Regards,
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Michael Hingson
> >>>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Lyn Gwizdak via
> NAGDU
> >>> Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2019 9:30 AM
> >>> To: NAGDU List Posting <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> >>> Cc: Lyn Gwizdak <gwizdaklyn at gmail.com>; Tracy Carcione
> >>> <carcione at access.net>
> >>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] National TV and on-line on demand: Australia's
> laws
> >>> failing to keep up with the rise of assistance animals
> >>>
> >>> Hey Bonnie! Maybe we will have to go the certification route to address
> >>> the issue of fakes here in the US. It is so out of control here. Do you
> >>> have to show something that proves your dog is the real deal when you
> go
> >>> to public places. Or is the medallion visible to the public? My dog has
> >>> the Service Dog tag on his collar but nobody seems to notice it. I am
> >>> always being asked if my dog is a service dog. Even when he is guiding
> me
> >>> on the bus.
> >>> Then the fakes get on and I dont hear the driver ask about some little
> >>> thing that is in a doggie stroller.
> >>>
> >>> Lyn and Aristotle who is a real Seeing Eye dog
> >>>
> >>> On Tue, Jun 11, 2019, 9:01 PM Bonnie Mosen via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org
> >
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Hi Tracy and others. I can't speak for Australia, but I can tell you
> >>>> how it works here in NZ.
> >>>> I moved here six years ago with my then 6-yo black Lab, Lizzie from
> >>>> The Seeing Eye.
> >>>> In February, I trained with my current dog, Eclipse, at TSE.
> >>>> NZ does have a small school which is a member of the International
> >>>> Guide Dog Federation.
> >>>> Any guide dog, whether it be owner trained or from a standard school
> >>>> has to be certified to work in NZ by the NZ guide dog school.
> >>>> This also allows follow-up from an NZ guide dog trainer as follow-up
> >>>> from a US school isn't possible.
> >>>> My understanding this is the case for all other service dogs. They
> >>>> have to be certified by whatever school here in NZ would train that
> sort
> >>>> of dog.
> >>>> From what I have heard, emotional support animals just aren't really
> >>>> recognized here.
> >>>> Thankfully, we don't have the issue of fake service animals yet, and
> >>>> I'm hoping our strict certification is the reason why.
> >>>> Eclipse wears a medallion from the NZ school, but I have never been
> >>>> challenged on her legitimacy as a service animal.
> >>>> I do have to have a follow-up annually with a guide dog instructor
> >>>> here, and I can get assistance with learning new routes or with
> training
> >>>> issues.
> >>>> They have been very accepting of my decision to continue to train with
> >>>> dogs from the US, and I don't feel I have been treated any different.
> >>>> Cheers
> >>>> Bonnie and Eclipse
> >>>> I know of one owner trainer here, and that person did have to have
> >>>> their dog certified by the guide dog school.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Tracy Carcione
> via
> >>>> NAGDU
> >>>> Sent: Wednesday, 12 June 2019 12:48 AM
> >>>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> >>>> < nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> >>>> Cc: Tracy Carcione <carcione at access.net>
> >>>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] National TV and on-line on demand: Australia's
> >>>> laws failing to keep up with the rise of assistance animals
> >>>>
> >>>> It's my understanding that, at least for guide dogs, it's different in
> >>>> Australia, the UK, and lots of other countries, than it is here in the
> >>>> US.
> >>>> There's only one guide dog school there, with several branches. I'm
> >>>> not sure owner-trained dogs are "legal". It seems to me that the
> >>>> guide dog school clamps down hard on any competition. So, for guide
> >>>> dogs, the school would issue an ID, and that would be that.
> >>>> I'd really like to know if my understanding is correct.
> >>>> Tracy
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Tara
> Briggs
> >>>> via NAGDU
> >>>> Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 2019 8:37 AM
> >>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> >>>> Cc: Tara Briggs
> >>>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] National TV and on-line on demand: Australia's
> >>>> laws failing to keep up with the rise of assistance animals
> >>>>
> >>>> Thank you for sharing this Paul. I am beginning to wonder if this is a
> >>>> good idea. For those who haven?t read the article, it basically argues
> >>>> for some type of certification essentially saying you need to have a
> >>>> drivers license type of ID card to have a service dog. I guess In an
> >>>> ideal world, businesses would kick out the wild pets. But I think that
> >>>> most businesses are too scared to do that. My two concerns are these I
> >>>> want owner trainers who have well-trained and well behaved service
> >>>> dogs to have the same rights of access as anybody else. And there are
> >>>> dogs that are trained by fantastic schools that turn into heathens
> >>>> once their owners get them home. How do we handle that?
> >>>> Tara
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Sent from my iPhone
> >>>>
> >>>>> On Jun 11, 2019, at 6:21 AM, Paul Harpur via NAGDU
> >>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Tonight there was an hour long analysis of the practices and laws on
> >>>>> disability assistance animals in Australia. The wording of the laws
> >>>>> mirror the Fair Housing Act and you can see similar issues and
> >>>>> different proposals for reform:
> >>>>> https://www.sbs.com.au/news/insight/australia-s-laws-failing-to-keep
> >>>>> -u p-with-the-rise-of-assistance-animals
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Dr Paul Harpur
> >>>>> BBus (HRm), LLB (Hons) LLM, PhD, solicitor of the High Court of
> >>>>> Australia (non-practicing) Fulbright Future Scholar<
> >>>> https://www.fulbright.org.au/current-scholars/>/International
> >>>> Distinguished Fellow<
> >>>>
> https://www.google.com.au/search?source=hp&ei=dosPXJDEFdO89QOTu47IDw&q
> >>>> =burton+blatt+institute+harpur&btnK=Google+Search&oq=burton+blatt+inst
> >>>> itute+harpur&gs_l=psy-ab.3..33i160l2.1230.4556..4826...0.0..1.294.6039
> >>>> .0j15j14......0....1..gws-wiz.....0..0j35i39j0i131j0i22i30j0i22i10i30.
> >>>> B7g_g7X_Ck4>,
> >>>> Burton Blatt Institute, SU, New York.
> >>>>> Senior Lecturer
> >>>>>
> >>>>> TC Beirne School of Law
> >>>>> The University of Queensland
> >>>>> Brisbane Qld 4072 Australia
> >>>>>
> >>>>> T +61 7 3365 8864 M +61 417 635 609
> >>>>> E p.harpur at law.uq.edu.au<mailto:p.harpur at law.uq.edu.au> TCB
> >>>>> Profile<https://law.uq.edu.au/paul-harpur>/Google Citation Page
> >>>>> <https://scholar.google.com.au/citations?user=6Y47my0AAAAJ&hl=en>
> >>>>> CRICOS code: 00025B
> >>>>>
> >>>>> [https://omc.uq.edu.au/files/4097/UQEmailBannerGeneric.jpg]
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Scientia ac Labore
> >>>>>
> >>>>> This email (including any attached files) is intended solely for the
> >>>> addressee and may contain confidential information of The University
> >>>> of Queensland. If you are not the addressee, you are notified that any
> >>>> transmission, distribution, printing or photocopying of this email is
> >>>> prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please delete
> >>>> and notify me. Unless explicitly stated, the opinions expressed in
> >>>> this email do not represent the official position of The University of
> >>>> Queensland.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>> NAGDU mailing list
> >>>>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
> >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> >>>>> for
> >>>> NAGDU:
> >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/thflute%40gmail.c
> >>>>> om
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> NAGDU mailing list
> >>>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >>>> NAGDU:
> >>>>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/carcione%40access.n
> >>>> et
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> NAGDU mailing list
> >>>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >>>> NAGDU:
> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/bonnie%40mosen.org
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> NAGDU mailing list
> >>>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >>>> NAGDU:
> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/gwizdaklyn%40gmail
> .
> >>>> com
> >>>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> NAGDU mailing list
> >>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >>> NAGDU:
> >>>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/mike%40michaelhingson.com
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> NAGDU mailing list
> >>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >>> NAGDU:
> >>>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/dsykora29%40gmail.com
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 4
> >> Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2019 14:59:56 -0400
> >> From: Dan Weiner <dcwein at dcwein.cnc.net>
> >> To: Danielle Sykora via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> >> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] National TV and on-line on demand: Australia's
> >> laws failing to keep up with the rise of assistance animals
> >> Message-ID: <8b4fffff-c884-de80-cdf9-0f2c0a4197cc at dcwein.cnc.net>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
> >>
> >> quick question, bonny, what is the process like if you have a U.S. dog
> >> and you are certified, do they do something to test your training or the
> >> dog's training or is the fact that you have a dog from a US school,
> >> member of the International Guide Dog federation, enough to have them
> >> certify you?
> >>
> >>
> >> Yours,
> >>
> >>
> >> Dan
> >>
> >>
> >> On 6/12/2019 2:32 PM, Danielle Sykora via NAGDU wrote:
> >>> You really can not compare the US to countries like New Zealand or
> >>> Australia. These countries as far as I know only have a few service dog
> >>> programs. These programs, or atleast some of them, are willing to
> certify
> >>> dogs trained elsewhere. Some other countries don't even recognize
> service
> >>> dogs other than guide, hearing, or mobility dogs, which pretty much
> leave
> >>> anyone needing medical alert or response out of luck. This is honestly
> >>> probably one of the main reason why you may not see so many fake
> service
> >>> dogs in other countries, but the people who truly need medical alert
> dogs
> >>> are not the problem.
> >>> There are literally dozens of service dog programs in the US. Some,
> >>> despite being ADI certified, place a high percentage of some truly
> >>> horribly behaved and trained dogs. Most service dog programs in general
> >>> and definitely guide dog programs specifically are not going to certify
> >>> dogs trained elsewhere.
> >>> Danielle
> >>>
> >>> Sent from my iPhone
> >>>
> >>>> On Jun 12, 2019, at 1:43 PM, Mike Hingson via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org
> >
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Certification is not the way to go in the U.S. The laws regarding
> guide
> >>>> and other service dogs are fine. What is needed is good education and
> >>>> legislation addressing fake service animals. I should not be burdened
> >>>> with any additional certification requirements to be able to take
> Alamo
> >>>> anywhere in the U.S.
> >>>>
> >>>> The problem is not with trained, (by school or owner), service
> animals.
> >>>> The solution is NOT to put more demands on us.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Best Regards,
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Michael Hingson
> >>>>
> >>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Lyn Gwizdak via
> >>>> NAGDU
> >>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2019 9:30 AM
> >>>> To: NAGDU List Posting <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> >>>> Cc: Lyn Gwizdak <gwizdaklyn at gmail.com>; Tracy Carcione
> >>>> <carcione at access.net>
> >>>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] National TV and on-line on demand: Australia's
> laws
> >>>> failing to keep up with the rise of assistance animals
> >>>>
> >>>> Hey Bonnie! Maybe we will have to go the certification route to
> address
> >>>> the issue of fakes here in the US. It is so out of control here. Do
> you
> >>>> have to show something that proves your dog is the real deal when you
> go
> >>>> to public places. Or is the medallion visible to the public? My dog
> has
> >>>> the Service Dog tag on his collar but nobody seems to notice it. I am
> >>>> always being asked if my dog is a service dog. Even when he is guiding
> >>>> me on the bus.
> >>>> Then the fakes get on and I dont hear the driver ask about some little
> >>>> thing that is in a doggie stroller.
> >>>>
> >>>> Lyn and Aristotle who is a real Seeing Eye dog
> >>>>
> >>>> On Tue, Jun 11, 2019, 9:01 PM Bonnie Mosen via NAGDU <
> nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Hi Tracy and others. I can't speak for Australia, but I can tell you
> >>>>> how it works here in NZ.
> >>>>> I moved here six years ago with my then 6-yo black Lab, Lizzie from
> >>>>> The Seeing Eye.
> >>>>> In February, I trained with my current dog, Eclipse, at TSE.
> >>>>> NZ does have a small school which is a member of the International
> >>>>> Guide Dog Federation.
> >>>>> Any guide dog, whether it be owner trained or from a standard school
> >>>>> has to be certified to work in NZ by the NZ guide dog school.
> >>>>> This also allows follow-up from an NZ guide dog trainer as follow-up
> >>>>> from a US school isn't possible.
> >>>>> My understanding this is the case for all other service dogs. They
> >>>>> have to be certified by whatever school here in NZ would train that
> >>>>> sort of dog.
> >>>>> From what I have heard, emotional support animals just aren't really
> >>>>> recognized here.
> >>>>> Thankfully, we don't have the issue of fake service animals yet, and
> >>>>> I'm hoping our strict certification is the reason why.
> >>>>> Eclipse wears a medallion from the NZ school, but I have never been
> >>>>> challenged on her legitimacy as a service animal.
> >>>>> I do have to have a follow-up annually with a guide dog instructor
> >>>>> here, and I can get assistance with learning new routes or with
> >>>>> training issues.
> >>>>> They have been very accepting of my decision to continue to train
> with
> >>>>> dogs from the US, and I don't feel I have been treated any different.
> >>>>> Cheers
> >>>>> Bonnie and Eclipse
> >>>>> I know of one owner trainer here, and that person did have to have
> >>>>> their dog certified by the guide dog school.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Tracy Carcione
> via
> >>>>> NAGDU
> >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, 12 June 2019 12:48 AM
> >>>>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> >>>>> < nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> >>>>> Cc: Tracy Carcione <carcione at access.net>
> >>>>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] National TV and on-line on demand: Australia's
> >>>>> laws failing to keep up with the rise of assistance animals
> >>>>>
> >>>>> It's my understanding that, at least for guide dogs, it's different
> in
> >>>>> Australia, the UK, and lots of other countries, than it is here in
> the
> >>>>> US.
> >>>>> There's only one guide dog school there, with several branches. I'm
> >>>>> not sure owner-trained dogs are "legal". It seems to me that the
> >>>>> guide dog school clamps down hard on any competition. So, for guide
> >>>>> dogs, the school would issue an ID, and that would be that.
> >>>>> I'd really like to know if my understanding is correct.
> >>>>> Tracy
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Tara
> Briggs
> >>>>> via NAGDU
> >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 2019 8:37 AM
> >>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> >>>>> Cc: Tara Briggs
> >>>>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] National TV and on-line on demand: Australia's
> >>>>> laws failing to keep up with the rise of assistance animals
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Thank you for sharing this Paul. I am beginning to wonder if this is
> a
> >>>>> good idea. For those who haven?t read the article, it basically
> argues
> >>>>> for some type of certification essentially saying you need to have a
> >>>>> drivers license type of ID card to have a service dog. I guess In an
> >>>>> ideal world, businesses would kick out the wild pets. But I think
> that
> >>>>> most businesses are too scared to do that. My two concerns are these
> I
> >>>>> want owner trainers who have well-trained and well behaved service
> >>>>> dogs to have the same rights of access as anybody else. And there are
> >>>>> dogs that are trained by fantastic schools that turn into heathens
> >>>>> once their owners get them home. How do we handle that?
> >>>>> Tara
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Sent from my iPhone
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> On Jun 11, 2019, at 6:21 AM, Paul Harpur via NAGDU
> >>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> >>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>> Tonight there was an hour long analysis of the practices and laws on
> >>>>>> disability assistance animals in Australia. The wording of the laws
> >>>>>> mirror the Fair Housing Act and you can see similar issues and
> >>>>>> different proposals for reform:
> >>>>>>
> https://www.sbs.com.au/news/insight/australia-s-laws-failing-to-keep
> >>>>>> -u p-with-the-rise-of-assistance-animals
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Dr Paul Harpur
> >>>>>> BBus (HRm), LLB (Hons) LLM, PhD, solicitor of the High Court of
> >>>>>> Australia (non-practicing) Fulbright Future Scholar<
> >>>>> https://www.fulbright.org.au/current-scholars/>/International
> >>>>> Distinguished Fellow<
> >>>>>
> https://www.google.com.au/search?source=hp&ei=dosPXJDEFdO89QOTu47IDw&q
> >>>>>
> =burton+blatt+institute+harpur&btnK=Google+Search&oq=burton+blatt+inst
> >>>>>
> itute+harpur&gs_l=psy-ab.3..33i160l2.1230.4556..4826...0.0..1.294.6039
> >>>>>
> .0j15j14......0....1..gws-wiz.....0..0j35i39j0i131j0i22i30j0i22i10i30.
> >>>>> B7g_g7X_Ck4>,
> >>>>> Burton Blatt Institute, SU, New York.
> >>>>>> Senior Lecturer
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> TC Beirne School of Law
> >>>>>> The University of Queensland
> >>>>>> Brisbane Qld 4072 Australia
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> T +61 7 3365 8864 M +61 417 635 609
> >>>>>> E p.harpur at law.uq.edu.au<mailto:p.harpur at law.uq.edu.au> TCB
> >>>>>> Profile<https://law.uq.edu.au/paul-harpur>/Google Citation Page
> >>>>>> <https://scholar.google.com.au/citations?user=6Y47my0AAAAJ&hl=en>
> >>>>>> CRICOS code: 00025B
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> [https://omc.uq.edu.au/files/4097/UQEmailBannerGeneric.jpg]
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Scientia ac Labore
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> This email (including any attached files) is intended solely for the
> >>>>> addressee and may contain confidential information of The University
> >>>>> of Queensland. If you are not the addressee, you are notified that
> any
> >>>>> transmission, distribution, printing or photocopying of this email is
> >>>>> prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please delete
> >>>>> and notify me. Unless explicitly stated, the opinions expressed in
> >>>>> this email do not represent the official position of The University
> of
> >>>>> Queensland.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>> NAGDU mailing list
> >>>>>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
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> >>>> _______________________________________________
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> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 5
> >> Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2019 15:53:12 -0500
> >> From: "Madison Martin" <maddymartin at mymts.net>
> >> To: <friends at guidedogs.groups.io>, <GuideDogs at yahoogroups.com>,
> >> <chat at guidedogusersinc.org>, "'NAGDU Mailing List, the
> National
> >> Association of Guide Dog Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> >> Subject: [NAGDU] differences between male and female guide dogs
> >> Message-ID: <000001d52160$da9b5e50$8fd21af0$@mymts.net>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> >>
> >> Hi all,
> >> I was just wondering out of curiosity for those of you who have had both
> >> male and female dogs as guide dogs what differences (other then size)
> have
> >> you noticed between the two genders? Please be 100% honest. If you want
> to
> >> write me privately then go ahead. I've only ever lived with female dogs
> so
> >> I
> >> can't comment. Look forward to hearing back from you guys with your
> >> thoughts! Thanks
> >> Madison
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 6
> >> Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2019 21:27:10 +0000
> >> From: Sherry Gomes <sherry.gomes at outlook.com>
> >> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
> Users"
> >> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> >> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] differences between male and female guide dogs
> >> Message-ID:
> >> <
> CY4PR02MB2360A024B894A0F5FB674A9F86EC0 at CY4PR02MB2360.namprd02.prod.outlook.com
> >
> >>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> >>
> >> I've had two male dogs and several females, and to me, there isn't any
> >> specific difference, not temperament or work style or anything like
> that.
> >> Interestingly, the most stubborn dog I ever had was a male, and the
> >> softest gentlest dog I ever had was a male. The males I had weren't
> >> particularly large either, one was about 22 inches and the other was 23
> >> inches. I would be happy with either gender in my next dog.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Madison Martin via
> >> NAGDU
> >> Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2019 2:53 PM
> >> To: friends at guidedogs.groups.io; GuideDogs at yahoogroups.com;
> >> chat at guidedogusersinc.org; 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National
> Association
> >> of Guide Dog Users' <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> >> Cc: Madison Martin <maddymartin at mymts.net>
> >> Subject: [NAGDU] differences between male and female guide dogs
> >>
> >> Hi all,
> >> I was just wondering out of curiosity for those of you who have had both
> >> male and female dogs as guide dogs what differences (other then size)
> have
> >> you noticed between the two genders? Please be 100% honest. If you want
> to
> >> write me privately then go ahead. I've only ever lived with female dogs
> so
> >> I can't comment. Look forward to hearing back from you guys with your
> >> thoughts! Thanks Madison
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> NAGDU mailing list
> >> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >> NAGDU:
> >>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/sherry.gomes%40outlook.com
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 7
> >> Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2019 19:37:06 -0600
> >> From: sheila leigland <sheila.leigland at gmail.com>
> >> To: Mike Hingson via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> >> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] National TV and on-line on demand: Australia's
> >> laws failing to keep up with the rise of assistance animals
> >> Message-ID: <5e83f2d8-31a1-c9cb-692d-c91de603a6b1 at gmail.com>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
> >>
> >> Michael I'm in complete agreement with you. There are enough laws in
> place
> >>
> >> On 6/12/2019 11:43 AM, Mike Hingson via NAGDU wrote:
> >>> Certification is not the way to go in the U.S. The laws regarding guide
> >>> and other service dogs are fine. What is needed is good education and
> >>> legislation addressing fake service animals. I should not be burdened
> >>> with any additional certification requirements to be able to take Alamo
> >>> anywhere in the U.S.
> >>>
> >>> The problem is not with trained, (by school or owner), service animals.
> >>> The solution is NOT to put more demands on us.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Best Regards,
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Michael Hingson
> >>>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Lyn Gwizdak via
> NAGDU
> >>> Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2019 9:30 AM
> >>> To: NAGDU List Posting <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> >>> Cc: Lyn Gwizdak <gwizdaklyn at gmail.com>; Tracy Carcione
> >>> <carcione at access.net>
> >>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] National TV and on-line on demand: Australia's
> laws
> >>> failing to keep up with the rise of assistance animals
> >>>
> >>> Hey Bonnie! Maybe we will have to go the certification route to address
> >>> the issue of fakes here in the US. It is so out of control here. Do you
> >>> have to show something that proves your dog is the real deal when you
> go
> >>> to public places. Or is the medallion visible to the public? My dog has
> >>> the Service Dog tag on his collar but nobody seems to notice it. I am
> >>> always being asked if my dog is a service dog. Even when he is guiding
> me
> >>> on the bus.
> >>> Then the fakes get on and I dont hear the driver ask about some little
> >>> thing that is in a doggie stroller.
> >>>
> >>> Lyn and Aristotle who is a real Seeing Eye dog
> >>>
> >>> On Tue, Jun 11, 2019, 9:01 PM Bonnie Mosen via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org
> >
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Hi Tracy and others. I can't speak for Australia, but I can tell you
> >>>> how it works here in NZ.
> >>>> I moved here six years ago with my then 6-yo black Lab, Lizzie from
> >>>> The Seeing Eye.
> >>>> In February, I trained with my current dog, Eclipse, at TSE.
> >>>> NZ does have a small school which is a member of the International
> >>>> Guide Dog Federation.
> >>>> Any guide dog, whether it be owner trained or from a standard school
> >>>> has to be certified to work in NZ by the NZ guide dog school.
> >>>> This also allows follow-up from an NZ guide dog trainer as follow-up
> >>>> from a US school isn't possible.
> >>>> My understanding this is the case for all other service dogs. They
> >>>> have to be certified by whatever school here in NZ would train that
> sort
> >>>> of dog.
> >>>> From what I have heard, emotional support animals just aren't really
> >>>> recognized here.
> >>>> Thankfully, we don't have the issue of fake service animals yet, and
> >>>> I'm hoping our strict certification is the reason why.
> >>>> Eclipse wears a medallion from the NZ school, but I have never been
> >>>> challenged on her legitimacy as a service animal.
> >>>> I do have to have a follow-up annually with a guide dog instructor
> >>>> here, and I can get assistance with learning new routes or with
> training
> >>>> issues.
> >>>> They have been very accepting of my decision to continue to train with
> >>>> dogs from the US, and I don't feel I have been treated any different.
> >>>> Cheers
> >>>> Bonnie and Eclipse
> >>>> I know of one owner trainer here, and that person did have to have
> >>>> their dog certified by the guide dog school.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Tracy Carcione
> via
> >>>> NAGDU
> >>>> Sent: Wednesday, 12 June 2019 12:48 AM
> >>>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> >>>> < nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> >>>> Cc: Tracy Carcione <carcione at access.net>
> >>>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] National TV and on-line on demand: Australia's
> >>>> laws failing to keep up with the rise of assistance animals
> >>>>
> >>>> It's my understanding that, at least for guide dogs, it's different in
> >>>> Australia, the UK, and lots of other countries, than it is here in the
> >>>> US.
> >>>> There's only one guide dog school there, with several branches. I'm
> >>>> not sure owner-trained dogs are "legal". It seems to me that the
> >>>> guide dog school clamps down hard on any competition. So, for guide
> >>>> dogs, the school would issue an ID, and that would be that.
> >>>> I'd really like to know if my understanding is correct.
> >>>> Tracy
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Tara
> Briggs
> >>>> via NAGDU
> >>>> Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 2019 8:37 AM
> >>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> >>>> Cc: Tara Briggs
> >>>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] National TV and on-line on demand: Australia's
> >>>> laws failing to keep up with the rise of assistance animals
> >>>>
> >>>> Thank you for sharing this Paul. I am beginning to wonder if this is a
> >>>> good idea. For those who haven?t read the article, it basically argues
> >>>> for some type of certification essentially saying you need to have a
> >>>> drivers license type of ID card to have a service dog. I guess In an
> >>>> ideal world, businesses would kick out the wild pets. But I think that
> >>>> most businesses are too scared to do that. My two concerns are these I
> >>>> want owner trainers who have well-trained and well behaved service
> >>>> dogs to have the same rights of access as anybody else. And there are
> >>>> dogs that are trained by fantastic schools that turn into heathens
> >>>> once their owners get them home. How do we handle that?
> >>>> Tara
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Sent from my iPhone
> >>>>
> >>>>> On Jun 11, 2019, at 6:21 AM, Paul Harpur via NAGDU
> >>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>> Tonight there was an hour long analysis of the practices and laws on
> >>>>> disability assistance animals in Australia. The wording of the laws
> >>>>> mirror the Fair Housing Act and you can see similar issues and
> >>>>> different proposals for reform:
> >>>>> https://www.sbs.com.au/news/insight/australia-s-laws-failing-to-keep
> >>>>> -u p-with-the-rise-of-assistance-animals
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Dr Paul Harpur
> >>>>> BBus (HRm), LLB (Hons) LLM, PhD, solicitor of the High Court of
> >>>>> Australia (non-practicing) Fulbright Future Scholar<
> >>>> https://www.fulbright.org.au/current-scholars/>/International
> >>>> Distinguished Fellow<
> >>>>
> https://www.google.com.au/search?source=hp&ei=dosPXJDEFdO89QOTu47IDw&q
> >>>> =burton+blatt+institute+harpur&btnK=Google+Search&oq=burton+blatt+inst
> >>>> itute+harpur&gs_l=psy-ab.3..33i160l2.1230.4556..4826...0.0..1.294.6039
> >>>> .0j15j14......0....1..gws-wiz.....0..0j35i39j0i131j0i22i30j0i22i10i30.
> >>>> B7g_g7X_Ck4>,
> >>>> Burton Blatt Institute, SU, New York.
> >>>>> Senior Lecturer
> >>>>>
> >>>>> TC Beirne School of Law
> >>>>> The University of Queensland
> >>>>> Brisbane Qld 4072 Australia
> >>>>>
> >>>>> T +61 7 3365 8864 M +61 417 635 609
> >>>>> E p.harpur at law.uq.edu.au<mailto:p.harpur at law.uq.edu.au> TCB
> >>>>> Profile<https://law.uq.edu.au/paul-harpur>/Google Citation Page
> >>>>> <https://scholar.google.com.au/citations?user=6Y47my0AAAAJ&hl=en>
> >>>>> CRICOS code: 00025B
> >>>>>
> >>>>> [https://omc.uq.edu.au/files/4097/UQEmailBannerGeneric.jpg]
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Scientia ac Labore
> >>>>>
> >>>>> This email (including any attached files) is intended solely for the
> >>>> addressee and may contain confidential information of The University
> >>>> of Queensland. If you are not the addressee, you are notified that any
> >>>> transmission, distribution, printing or photocopying of this email is
> >>>> prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please delete
> >>>> and notify me. Unless explicitly stated, the opinions expressed in
> >>>> this email do not represent the official position of The University of
> >>>> Queensland.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
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> >>>>> for
> >>>> NAGDU:
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> >>>>> om
> >>>> _______________________________________________
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> >>>> et
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
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> >>>> NAGDU:
> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/bonnie%40mosen.org
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> NAGDU mailing list
> >>>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
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> >>>> NAGDU:
> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/gwizdaklyn%40gmail
> .
> >>>> com
> >>>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
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> >>> NAGDU:
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> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
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> >>> NAGDU:
> >>>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/sheila.leigland%40gmail.com
> >>
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 8
> >> Da
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