[nfb-talk] [NFB-talk] New List for Blind Conservatives

Thu Apr 22 22:09:25 UTC 2010

Sarah, of course opinions are either right or wrong. How can it be 
otherwise? If Ray says we'd be better off without SSI and I say we wouldn't, 
then one of us has to be wrong.

What you mean is that neither of us can prove the other wrong. Well, 
actually, I donn't think even that is correct. But even if it is, that 
doesn't mean that one of us isn't wrong.

PS: You sound like you think liberal and Catholic are distinct groups. In 
fact, I would be willing to bet that the majority of Catholics would agree 
with me, not Ray.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Sarah Baughn" <sarahb006 at comcast.net>
To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2010 11:58 AM
Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] [NFB-talk] New List for Blind Conservatives

> John, the terms right and wrong are subjective.  Everyone has a different 
> version of what is right and what is wrong, especially when it comes to 
> political and religious beliefs.  Being a Catholic, I agree with all of 
> what Ray is saying because he is saying these things from the perspective 
> of a blind catholic, with the insight of the teachings of the Church. 
> However, a liberal does not believe in these things, and so their version 
> of what is right does not coincide with ours.  So you see, you are doing 
> no better than he is when you call what others believe wrong.  You may 
> think they're wrong, but I think those words can only be used when you're 
> talking about proven facts that can not be denied.
> Sarah
> If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this 
> mountain: "Remove hence to yonder place.", and it shall remove, and 
> nothing shall be impossible unto you.
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "John G. Heim" <jheim at math.wisc.edu>
> To: <info at michaelhingson.com>; "NFB Talk Mailing List" 
> <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 1:04 PM
> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] [NFB-talk] New List for Blind Conservatives
>
>
>> Its almost impossible to find anyone actually interested in discussing 
>> liberal vs conservative issues in a rational manner. People should 
>> occasionally take a step back and examine their point of view. Far too 
>> many people make up their minds and then start casting around for reasons 
>> to believe what they've already decided.  That's a recipe for disaster. 
>> That's how mistakes are made.
>>
>> I am actually planning to write a book about this. I'm thinking of 
>> calling it "Recipe For Wrongness". Almost everyone believes in freedom of 
>> speech. And most people even understand why its so important. Its not 
>> just because we all enjoy it. The reason why freedom of speech is so 
>> important is that it allows the best ideas to win out. Ideas can compete 
>> against each other in a society with free speech and most of the time, 
>> the best idea wins. Its called the market place of ideas.
>>
>> But very few people apply the concept of the market place of ideas to 
>> their own opinions.  Its just not even something that occurs to most 
>> people to do. Most people make up their minds ahead of time and then 
>> start casting about for information to support what they already believe. 
>> And that is a recipe for wrongness.
>>
>> If you start occasionally sitting back and examining what you believe, 
>> you will find its an incredibly valuable tool. It even made me a better 
>> chess player. I was in a round-robin chess tournament and lost almost all 
>> of my matches until I started sitting back occasionally and trying to get 
>> a realistic overview of the board and my opponent. What are my opponent's 
>> strengths and weaknesses?Does he see any advantages I might not see? Is 
>> he missing any vulnerabilities he currently has? What's going on in my 
>> opponent's head? From then on, I won almost every match. It was like 
>> magic.
>>
>> The real message in the chess tournament story is not the importance of 
>> trying to look into your opponents mind. The real insight there is how 
>> few people do it. Its not just that a lot of people are crummy chess 
>> players. Its that it would be so easy to be so much better.
>>
>> Once you start thinking this way, you see opportunities to use it 
>> everywhere. Instead of just bulling ahead with your political opinions, 
>> take a step back occasionally and consider whether they're working or 
>> not. Do they actually make sense? Does history support or dispute my 
>> beliefs? Do I believe what I believe because I want to or because of the 
>> facts?  If more people did this, they'd be right a lot more often and the 
>> world would be a better place.
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Michael Hingson" <info at michaelhingson.com>
>> To: "'NFB Talk Mailing List'" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 1:45 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] [NFB-talk] New List for Blind Conservatives
>>
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> Leftist, liberal, socialist, and progressive as well as conservative and
>> "right wing" are words.  The fact is that these words have been used to
>> inflame and are not necessarily true or fair.
>>
>> In our country today we are seeing a war of words escalate into anger and
>> downright polarization on a scale we have never seen before.  I and 
>> others
>> survived the attack at the World Trade Center and Pentagon to see our
>> potential to grow stronger be negated and even see our resolve 
>> disintegrate
>> along party lines.  Folks, it matters not our political leanings.  Knock 
>> off
>> the words and find ways to come together.  Stop calling each other names 
>> and
>> recognize that we all have a job to do.  In the case of the NFB it is to
>> promote the security, equality, and opportunity which all blind Americans
>> should have.
>>
>>
>> Mike Hingson
>>
>>
>> The Michael Hingson Group, INC.
>> "Speaking with Vision"
>> Michael Hingson, President
>> (415) 827-4084
>> info at michaelhingson.com
>> www.michaelhingson.com
>>
>>
>> for info on the new KNFB Reader Mobile, visit:
>> http://knfbreader.michaelhingson.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf Of Ray Foret jr
>> Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 8:16 AM
>> To: NFB Talk Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] New List for Blind Conservatives
>>
>> Just being honest.  That's all.
>>
>>
>> Sincerely,
>> The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!!!
>>
>> Now a proud Mac user!!!!!
>>
>> E-Mail:
>> rforetjr at comcast dot net
>> Skype:
>> barefootedray
>>
>> On Apr 20, 2010, at 9:39 AM, John G. Heim wrote:
>>
>>> I'd suggest that if you really want to discuss this rationally you 
>>> refrain
>> from using perjoritives like "leftist" and "socialist". The correct term 
>> is
>> "liberal" or "progressive".
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ray Foret jr" <rforetjr at comcast.net>
>>> To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 10:05 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] New List for Blind Conservatives
>>>
>>>
>>>> RyanO,
>>>>
>>>> I must publicly applaud you for taking this very long overdue stand for
>> us blind conservatives.  Let me be completely frank here, at perhaps some
>> risk to myself.  For much too long now, I have feared that perhaps the
>> federation was leaning rather too far over to the left.  But why?  It's 
>> the
>> entitlement mentality of the SSI check; to put it bluntly.  We poor blind
>> think we can't live without it.  But, the sad truth is, that for many of 
>> us,
>> that think is a physical reality.  That is the reason why more of us 
>> don't
>> have jobs.  We get punished for trying to start to go to work. When we 
>> do,
>> we don't make enough money to live by; and yet, on the other hand, we 
>> make
>> too much to receive any help from the socialist security system.  What,
>> there fore, is the sad result?  The sad result is that too many blind
>> individuals adopt leftist socialism because they think that government 
>> will
>> "look after us".  IF you just stop and consider for a moment what that
>> really means, you'll see that i
>>>> t goes directly against the grain of true federationism.  It personally
>> hurt me when Joanne Wilson and the rest of us were deceived by the
>> Republican party in or about 2005 when Secretary Spelling wanted to
>> dismantle blind rehab.  Frankly, I felt then and feel still that my 
>> fellow
>> conservatives were completely wrong on that score.  They seem to hate
>> political correctness; that is, until it comes to the blind.  That turns 
>> my
>> stomach!!!!  It sure doesn't help when any leaders of the federation fail 
>> to
>> reach out to conservatives because they feel more comfortable being in 
>> bed
>> with the socialist left.  To speak quite candidly, I was sincerely hoping
>> that our fight to get money to convert over to the digital talking book
>> program would have taught the lesson that we cannot afford to ride the 
>> back
>> of the tiger for fear of ending up devoured by it. It seems, however, 
>> that
>> this is not so.  Now look, just so I am not misunderstood here, I 
>> personally
>> couldn't care whether any individu
>>>> al in the federation or on this list is a leftist, a socialist, an
>> extreme right wing person or what ever.  What I do care about is the fact
>> that so long as we do not face up to the fact that we're going to have to
>> figure out a better way to live for ourselves, we'll be looking for that
>> check every month which is supposed to assure us that we're being looked
>> after. I'm just wondering when enough is finally going to be enough. 
>> What I
>> look forward to in this debate is not accusation after accusation, but
>> rather, healthy discussion about how we can rid ourselves of the 
>> entitlement
>> mentality and move in to something much better for us.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Sincerely,
>>>> The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!!!
>>>>
>>>> Now a proud Mac user!!!!!
>>>>
>>>> E-Mail:
>>>> rforetjr at comcast dot net
>>>> Skype:
>>>> barefootedray
>>>>
>>>> On Apr 19, 2010, at 8:32 PM, RyanO (by way of David Andrews
>> <dandrews at visi.com>) wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I have been asked to circulate the following:
>>>>>
>>>>> Dave
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> In October, 2008, a fellow Federationist and I were asked to reach out
>> to the McCain campaign in hopes of persuading a representative to come 
>> speak
>> at our monthly Denver chapter meeting on the topic of disability issues. 
>> We
>> already had a rep from the Obama campaign in the person of one of our
>> members, who was an official Obama surrogate. After several days of phone
>> tag, I was informed that the McCain camp would not be sending a
>> representative to speak to us. The reason I was given was because, "Obama
>> was just too far ahead on disability issues."
>>>>>
>>>>> I and my fellow conservative blind friends were angry and hurt. We 
>>>>> tried
>> to give both sides equal time and felt we'd been told that we didn't 
>> matter.
>> To that end, I felt I had two options. The first was to quit being a
>> conservative and jump ship over to the other side. The second option was 
>> to
>> get more actively involved and to make our voices heard on all levels.
>> Anyone who knows me knows that option one was not an option.
>>>>>
>>>>> To that end, I have created a mailing list called, Brush Fires. It is
>> primarily for blind conservatives so that we may form a network of
>> communication and information. Let me stress that everyone is welcome on
>> this list, no matter what their political stripe may be. In the spirit of
>> the Federation, I believe that healthy debate and discussion fosters a 
>> more
>> vibrant society for all of its members.
>>>>>
>>>>> Right now, the list is announce only. If we get big enough, I plan to
>> turn it into a discussion mailing list. For more information, please 
>> Email
>> me at
>>>>> ryano218 at comcast.net
>>>>>
>>>>> Thank you for your time and attention.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> RyanO
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nfb-talk mailing list
>>>>> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nfb-talk mailing list
>>>> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nfb-talk mailing list
>>> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nfb-talk mailing list
>> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nfb-talk mailing list
>> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nfb-talk mailing list
>> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nfb-talk mailing list
> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
>
> 