[nfb-talk] [NFB-talk] New List for Blind Conservatives

Sarah Baughn sarahb006 at comcast.net
Mon Apr 26 17:26:22 UTC 2010 

Actually, they are.  The liberal mentality of the left (liberals) directly 
contradict the teachings of the Church, regardless of whether or not most 
catholics agree with the liberal mentality.
Sarah
If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this 
mountain: "Remove hence to yonder place.", and it shall remove, and nothing 
shall be impossible unto you.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "John G. Heim" <jheim at math.wisc.edu>
To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2010 3:09 PM
Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] [NFB-talk] New List for Blind Conservatives


> Sarah, of course opinions are either right or wrong. How can it be 
> otherwise? If Ray says we'd be better off without SSI and I say we 
> wouldn't, then one of us has to be wrong.
>
> What you mean is that neither of us can prove the other wrong. Well, 
> actually, I donn't think even that is correct. But even if it is, that 
> doesn't mean that one of us isn't wrong.
>
> PS: You sound like you think liberal and Catholic are distinct groups. In 
> fact, I would be willing to bet that the majority of Catholics would agree 
> with me, not Ray.
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Sarah Baughn" <sarahb006 at comcast.net>
> To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2010 11:58 AM
> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] [NFB-talk] New List for Blind Conservatives
>
>
>> John, the terms right and wrong are subjective.  Everyone has a different 
>> version of what is right and what is wrong, especially when it comes to 
>> political and religious beliefs.  Being a Catholic, I agree with all of 
>> what Ray is saying because he is saying these things from the perspective 
>> of a blind catholic, with the insight of the teachings of the Church. 
>> However, a liberal does not believe in these things, and so their version 
>> of what is right does not coincide with ours.  So you see, you are doing 
>> no better than he is when you call what others believe wrong.  You may 
>> think they're wrong, but I think those words can only be used when you're 
>> talking about proven facts that can not be denied.
>> Sarah
>> If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this 
>> mountain: "Remove hence to yonder place.", and it shall remove, and 
>> nothing shall be impossible unto you.
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "John G. Heim" <jheim at math.wisc.edu>
>> To: <info at michaelhingson.com>; "NFB Talk Mailing List" 
>> <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 1:04 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] [NFB-talk] New List for Blind Conservatives
>>
>>
>>> Its almost impossible to find anyone actually interested in discussing 
>>> liberal vs conservative issues in a rational manner. People should 
>>> occasionally take a step back and examine their point of view. Far too 
>>> many people make up their minds and then start casting around for 
>>> reasons to believe what they've already decided.  That's a recipe for 
>>> disaster. That's how mistakes are made.
>>>
>>> I am actually planning to write a book about this. I'm thinking of 
>>> calling it "Recipe For Wrongness". Almost everyone believes in freedom 
>>> of speech. And most people even understand why its so important. Its not 
>>> just because we all enjoy it. The reason why freedom of speech is so 
>>> important is that it allows the best ideas to win out. Ideas can compete 
>>> against each other in a society with free speech and most of the time, 
>>> the best idea wins. Its called the market place of ideas.
>>>
>>> But very few people apply the concept of the market place of ideas to 
>>> their own opinions.  Its just not even something that occurs to most 
>>> people to do. Most people make up their minds ahead of time and then 
>>> start casting about for information to support what they already 
>>> believe. And that is a recipe for wrongness.
>>>
>>> If you start occasionally sitting back and examining what you believe, 
>>> you will find its an incredibly valuable tool. It even made me a better 
>>> chess player. I was in a round-robin chess tournament and lost almost 
>>> all of my matches until I started sitting back occasionally and trying 
>>> to get a realistic overview of the board and my opponent. What are my 
>>> opponent's strengths and weaknesses?Does he see any advantages I might 
>>> not see? Is he missing any vulnerabilities he currently has? What's 
>>> going on in my opponent's head? From then on, I won almost every match. 
>>> It was like magic.
>>>
>>> The real message in the chess tournament story is not the importance of 
>>> trying to look into your opponents mind. The real insight there is how 
>>> few people do it. Its not just that a lot of people are crummy chess 
>>> players. Its that it would be so easy to be so much better.
>>>
>>> Once you start thinking this way, you see opportunities to use it 
>>> everywhere. Instead of just bulling ahead with your political opinions, 
>>> take a step back occasionally and consider whether they're working or 
>>> not. Do they actually make sense? Does history support or dispute my 
>>> beliefs? Do I believe what I believe because I want to or because of the 
>>> facts?  If more people did this, they'd be right a lot more often and 
>>> the world would be a better place.
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "Michael Hingson" <info at michaelhingson.com>
>>> To: "'NFB Talk Mailing List'" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 1:45 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] [NFB-talk] New List for Blind Conservatives
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> Leftist, liberal, socialist, and progressive as well as conservative and
>>> "right wing" are words.  The fact is that these words have been used to
>>> inflame and are not necessarily true or fair.
>>>
>>> In our country today we are seeing a war of words escalate into anger 
>>> and
>>> downright polarization on a scale we have never seen before.  I and 
>>> others
>>> survived the attack at the World Trade Center and Pentagon to see our
>>> potential to grow stronger be negated and even see our resolve 
>>> disintegrate
>>> along party lines.  Folks, it matters not our political leanings.  Knock 
>>> off
>>> the words and find ways to come together.  Stop calling each other names 
>>> and
>>> recognize that we all have a job to do.  In the case of the NFB it is to
>>> promote the security, equality, and opportunity which all blind 
>>> Americans
>>> should have.
>>>
>>>
>>> Mike Hingson
>>>
>>>
>>> The Michael Hingson Group, INC.
>>> "Speaking with Vision"
>>> Michael Hingson, President
>>> (415) 827-4084
>>> info at michaelhingson.com
>>> www.michaelhingson.com
>>>
>>>
>>> for info on the new KNFB Reader Mobile, visit:
>>> http://knfbreader.michaelhingson.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] 
>>> On
>>> Behalf Of Ray Foret jr
>>> Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 8:16 AM
>>> To: NFB Talk Mailing List
>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] New List for Blind Conservatives
>>>
>>> Just being honest.  That's all.
>>>
>>>
>>> Sincerely,
>>> The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!!!
>>>
>>> Now a proud Mac user!!!!!
>>>
>>> E-Mail:
>>> rforetjr at comcast dot net
>>> Skype:
>>> barefootedray
>>>
>>> On Apr 20, 2010, at 9:39 AM, John G. Heim wrote:
>>>
>>>> I'd suggest that if you really want to discuss this rationally you 
>>>> refrain
>>> from using perjoritives like "leftist" and "socialist". The correct term 
>>> is
>>> "liberal" or "progressive".
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ray Foret jr" 
>>>> <rforetjr at comcast.net>
>>>> To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 10:05 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] New List for Blind Conservatives
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> RyanO,
>>>>>
>>>>> I must publicly applaud you for taking this very long overdue stand 
>>>>> for
>>> us blind conservatives.  Let me be completely frank here, at perhaps 
>>> some
>>> risk to myself.  For much too long now, I have feared that perhaps the
>>> federation was leaning rather too far over to the left.  But why?  It's 
>>> the
>>> entitlement mentality of the SSI check; to put it bluntly.  We poor 
>>> blind
>>> think we can't live without it.  But, the sad truth is, that for many of 
>>> us,
>>> that think is a physical reality.  That is the reason why more of us 
>>> don't
>>> have jobs.  We get punished for trying to start to go to work. When we 
>>> do,
>>> we don't make enough money to live by; and yet, on the other hand, we 
>>> make
>>> too much to receive any help from the socialist security system.  What,
>>> there fore, is the sad result?  The sad result is that too many blind
>>> individuals adopt leftist socialism because they think that government 
>>> will
>>> "look after us".  IF you just stop and consider for a moment what that
>>> really means, you'll see that i
>>>>> t goes directly against the grain of true federationism.  It 
>>>>> personally
>>> hurt me when Joanne Wilson and the rest of us were deceived by the
>>> Republican party in or about 2005 when Secretary Spelling wanted to
>>> dismantle blind rehab.  Frankly, I felt then and feel still that my 
>>> fellow
>>> conservatives were completely wrong on that score.  They seem to hate
>>> political correctness; that is, until it comes to the blind.  That turns 
>>> my
>>> stomach!!!!  It sure doesn't help when any leaders of the federation 
>>> fail to
>>> reach out to conservatives because they feel more comfortable being in 
>>> bed
>>> with the socialist left.  To speak quite candidly, I was sincerely 
>>> hoping
>>> that our fight to get money to convert over to the digital talking book
>>> program would have taught the lesson that we cannot afford to ride the 
>>> back
>>> of the tiger for fear of ending up devoured by it. It seems, however, 
>>> that
>>> this is not so.  Now look, just so I am not misunderstood here, I 
>>> personally
>>> couldn't care whether any individu
>>>>> al in the federation or on this list is a leftist, a socialist, an
>>> extreme right wing person or what ever.  What I do care about is the 
>>> fact
>>> that so long as we do not face up to the fact that we're going to have 
>>> to
>>> figure out a better way to live for ourselves, we'll be looking for that
>>> check every month which is supposed to assure us that we're being looked
>>> after. I'm just wondering when enough is finally going to be enough. 
>>> What I
>>> look forward to in this debate is not accusation after accusation, but
>>> rather, healthy discussion about how we can rid ourselves of the 
>>> entitlement
>>> mentality and move in to something much better for us.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>> The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!!!
>>>>>
>>>>> Now a proud Mac user!!!!!
>>>>>
>>>>> E-Mail:
>>>>> rforetjr at comcast dot net
>>>>> Skype:
>>>>> barefootedray
>>>>>
>>>>> On Apr 19, 2010, at 8:32 PM, RyanO (by way of David Andrews
>>> <dandrews at visi.com>) wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I have been asked to circulate the following:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dave
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In October, 2008, a fellow Federationist and I were asked to reach 
>>>>>> out
>>> to the McCain campaign in hopes of persuading a representative to come 
>>> speak
>>> at our monthly Denver chapter meeting on the topic of disability issues. 
>>> We
>>> already had a rep from the Obama campaign in the person of one of our
>>> members, who was an official Obama surrogate. After several days of 
>>> phone
>>> tag, I was informed that the McCain camp would not be sending a
>>> representative to speak to us. The reason I was given was because, 
>>> "Obama
>>> was just too far ahead on disability issues."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I and my fellow conservative blind friends were angry and hurt. We 
>>>>>> tried
>>> to give both sides equal time and felt we'd been told that we didn't 
>>> matter.
>>> To that end, I felt I had two options. The first was to quit being a
>>> conservative and jump ship over to the other side. The second option was 
>>> to
>>> get more actively involved and to make our voices heard on all levels.
>>> Anyone who knows me knows that option one was not an option.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To that end, I have created a mailing list called, Brush Fires. It is
>>> primarily for blind conservatives so that we may form a network of
>>> communication and information. Let me stress that everyone is welcome on
>>> this list, no matter what their political stripe may be. In the spirit 
>>> of
>>> the Federation, I believe that healthy debate and discussion fosters a 
>>> more
>>> vibrant society for all of its members.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Right now, the list is announce only. If we get big enough, I plan to
>>> turn it into a discussion mailing list. For more information, please 
>>> Email
>>> me at
>>>>>> ryano218 at comcast.net
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thank you for your time and attention.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> RyanO
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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>>>>>
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>>>>
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