[nfb-talk] Extra Tax Exemption

[ckrugman at sbcglobal.net]

I would have to agree. Raders/drivers are only a minor expense. There have 
been times when the use of cab fares in the course of employment equaled 
what I would pay each month for a car payment and insurance coverage as it 
was not covered by employers or of late I forgot I'm my own employer now. 
Grin!
Chuck
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Brian Miller" <brian-r-miller at uiowa.edu>
To: "'NFB Talk Mailing List'" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2010 8:26 PM
Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Extra Tax Exemption


>I agree with the reader/driver thing in terms of the expenses being a wash.
>
>
> I'm less convinced when it comes to buying adaptive equipment -- in a 
> world
> where JAWS costs over $1,000, I'll take the exemption.  Maybe when we all
> switch to MACs this will no longer be an issue.
>
> I also don't buy the tax exemption = impact on hiring argument.  I just
> think this is too tenuous a thread.  There are certainly other kinds of
> things in the environment that may lead someone to think this, but I very
> much doubt 98%of people would make that connection between the exemption 
> and
> inability to work.
>
> Brian M
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of David Andrews
> Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2010 10:49 PM
> To: NFB Talk Mailing List
> Subject: [nfb-talk] Extra Tax Exemption
>
> We tell ourselves that we have added expenses -- but I am not sure this is
> true.  We have different expenses, readers, drivers, cabs, etc., but in
> general we don't have to buy cars and auto insurance.  They are quite
> expensive, so I think that for most people it is a wash.
>
> As to the extra exemption -- I take it too, to not take it won't make any
> difference in the system so there is no reason not to take it.  However,
> everybody who fills out a tax return sees that you get an extra break from
> the government, like the elderly.  Why -- because you need it, you can't 
> do
> for yourself so you need government help.  Everybody sees that and I think
> it does us great damage, and contributes to our high unemployment rate.
>
> But we are not well enough off, and self aware enough, as a group, to 
> reject
> that benefit.
>
> I suspect many people will disagree with me, and say it does no harm, but 
> I
> don't believe that for one.
>
> Dave
>
>
> At 05:23 PM 4/22/2010, you wrote:
>>considering the added expenses that blind people incur what is wrong
>>with the extra tax exemption? I for one will gladly continue to accept
>>it without shame or guilt.
>>Chuck
>>----- Original Message ----- From: "David Andrews" <dandrews at visi.com>
>>To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2010 5:19 PM
>>Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] [NFB-talk] New List for Blind Conservatives
>>
>>
>>>Ray:
>>>
>>>I think you ask some good questions -- questions that have nothing to
>>>do with being a liberal or a conservative, or a dog
>>>(smile.)  Your language in this message is diplomatic and considered
>>>and I think accomplishes more than some previous messages.  People get
>>>caught up in this and that and don't hear the message.
>>>
>>>I think that as a community we will ultimately decide that the price
>>>for things like the extra tax exemption, SSI, SSDI, etc., is just to
>>>high, but with a 70 percent unemployment rate, we are just not there
>>>yet.
>>>
>>>No, this system isn't working, but the chance of a wholesale
>>>replacement is slim.
>>>
>>>Dave
>>>
>>>At 11:14 PM 4/20/2010, you wrote:
>>>>All I'm asking now is this.  do we blind people have the intestsinal
>>>>fortitude to frankly face the fact that the SSI check is not the best
>>>>way for us to get ahead in this society?  If even asking that is a
>>>>crime in the federation, mark me down as being about as guilty as one
>>>>can get. Sometimes, the truth hurts, and that fact does not negate
>>>>the eventual fact that we're going to have to shut down SSI and
>>>>create something better.  Yes, I'll again speak frankly here.  We
>>>>need to shut down SSI and social security.  those things punish the
>>>>blind for trying to work.  I said it last night and I'll say it
>>>>again.  IF a blind person tries to go to work, they don't make enough
>>>>money to live, and yet, too much money to get needed help.  How do I
>>>>know?  It happened to me.  So, with all due respect, don't tell me I
>>>>know not of what I speak!!!  I'm not saying that those who need help
>>>>should not get it; but, can we not even be honest with ourselves and
>>>>each other about the fact that our current set up may not be the best
>>>>way to cary us in to the future?  IS that too hard to do?  Is that
>>>>too much to ask?  I said what I said in this message and there's no
>>>>taking it back.  Even if I wanted to, it's too late.  If we can't
>>>>even be honest with ourselves about this, what have we come too?
>>>>Sincerely,
>>>>The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!!!
>>>>
>>>>Now a proud Mac user!!!!!
>>>>
>>>>E-Mail:
>>>>rforetjr at comcast dot net
>>>>Skype:
>>>>barefootedray
>>>>
>>>>On Apr 20, 2010, at 9:50 PM, Steve Jacobson wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > Stepping back and examining our points of view makes a lot of
>>>>sense to me and it is something I try to do often.
>>>> > Actually, one element of Ray's comments that fits into this
>>>>notion is that we do need to look at what we ask of society to
>>>> > figure out what we need as opposed to what we want.  I further
>>>>believe we need to think about the cost of what we
>>>> > might request society and what the benefits are to us and to
>>>>society.  These seem like reasonable questions that should
>>>> > not be seen as conservative or liberal.  Still, if this is even
>>>>what Ray is saying, I find it very hard to believe that our
>>>> > overall status, the 70% unemployed for example, is related to a
>>>>sense of entitlement.  As we make progress, we do need
>>>> > to be prepared to consider that some benefits of various types
>>>>are no longer needed.   However, we have some pretty
>>>> > large obstacles to overcome before we get there.  Labeling us as
>>>>having a sense of entitlement that overshadows the
>>>> > other barriers we encounter really does not recognize
>>>>reality.  To extreme conservatives and to extreme liberals, life is
>>>> > just a theory.
>>>> >
>>>> > Best regards,
>>>> >
>>>> > Steve Jacobson
>>>> >
>>>> > On Tue, 20 Apr 2010 15:04:22 -0500, John G. Heim wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >> Its almost impossible to find anyone actually interested in
>>>> >> discussing liberal vs conservative issues in a rational manner.
>>>> >> People should occasionally take a step back and examine their point
> of view.
>>>>Far too many
>>>> >> people make up their minds and then start casting around for
>>>> reasons >> to
>>>> >> believe what they've already decided.  That's a recipe for
>>>>disaster.  That's
>>>> >> how mistakes are made.
>>>> >
>>>> >> I am actually planning to write a book about this. I'm thinking
>>>>of calling
>>>> >> it "Recipe For Wrongness". Almost everyone believes in freedom
>>>> of >> speech.
>>>> >> And most people even understand why its so important. Its not
>>>>just because
>>>> >> we all enjoy it. The reason why freedom of speech is so
>>>>important is that it
>>>> >> allows the best ideas to win out. Ideas can compete against each
>>>>other in a
>>>> >> society with free speech and most of the time, the best idea
>>>> wins. >> Its
>>>> >> called the market place of ideas.
>>>> >
>>>> >> But very few people apply the concept of the market place of
>>>>ideas to their
>>>> >> own opinions.  Its just not even something that occurs to most
>>>>people to do.
>>>> >> Most people make up their minds ahead of time and then start
>>>>casting about
>>>> >> for information to support what they already believe.  And that
>>>>is a recipe
>>>> >> for wrongness.
>>>> >
>>>> >> If you start occasionally sitting back and examining what you
>>>>believe, you
>>>> >> will find its an incredibly valuable tool. It even made me a
>>>> better >> chess
>>>> >> player. I was in a round-robin chess tournament and lost
>>>> almost all of >> my
>>>> >> matches until I started sitting back occasionally and trying to
>>>> >> get a realistic overview of the board and my opponent. What are
>>>> my >> opponent's
>>>> >> strengths and weaknesses?Does he see any advantages I might not
>>>>see? Is he
>>>> >> missing any vulnerabilities he currently has? What's going on in
>>>> >> my opponent's head? From then on, I won almost every match. It
>>>> >> was
>>>>like magic.
>>>> >
>>>> >> The real message in the chess tournament story is not the
>>>> importance >> of
>>>> >> trying to look into your opponents mind. The real insight there
>>>>is how few
>>>> >> people do it. Its not just that a lot of people are crummy
>>>> chess >> players.
>>>> >> Its that it would be so easy to be so much better.
>>>> >
>>>> >> Once you start thinking this way, you see opportunities to use it
>>>> >> everywhere. Instead of just bulling ahead with your political
>>>>opinions, take
>>>> >> a step back occasionally and consider whether they're working
>>>> or not. >> Do
>>>> >> they actually make sense? Does history support or dispute my
>>>>beliefs? Do I
>>>> >> believe what I believe because I want to or because of the
>>>>facts?  If more
>>>> >> people did this, they'd be right a lot more often and the world
>>>>would be a
>>>> >> better place.
>>>> >
>>>> >> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> >> From: "Michael Hingson" <info at michaelhingson.com>
>>>> >> To: "'NFB Talk Mailing List'" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>> >> Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 1:45 PM
>>>> >> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] [NFB-talk] New List for Blind
>>>> >> Conservatives
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >> Hi all,
>>>> >
>>>> >> Leftist, liberal, socialist, and progressive as well as
>>>> conservative >> and
>>>> >> "right wing" are words.  The fact is that these words have
>>>> been used >> to
>>>> >> inflame and are not necessarily true or fair.
>>>> >
>>>> >> In our country today we are seeing a war of words escalate
>>>> into anger >> and
>>>> >> downright polarization on a scale we have never seen
>>>> before.  I and >> others
>>>> >> survived the attack at the World Trade Center and Pentagon to see
>>>> >> our potential to grow stronger be negated and even see our
>>>> >> resolve
>>>>disintegrate
>>>> >> along party lines.  Folks, it matters not our political
>>>>leanings.  Knock off
>>>> >> the words and find ways to come together.  Stop calling each
>>>>other names and
>>>> >> recognize that we all have a job to do.  In the case of the
>>>> NFB it is >> to
>>>> >> promote the security, equality, and opportunity which all
>>>> blind >> Americans
>>>> >> should have.
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >> Mike Hingson
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >> The Michael Hingson Group, INC.
>>>> >> "Speaking with Vision"
>>>> >> Michael Hingson, President
>>>> >> (415) 827-4084
>>>> >> info at michaelhingson.com
>>>> >> www.michaelhingson.com
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >> for info on the new KNFB Reader Mobile, visit:
>>>> >> http://knfbreader.michaelhingson.com
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >> -----Original Message-----
>>>> >> From: nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>> [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] >> On
>>>> >> Behalf Of Ray Foret jr
>>>> >> Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 8:16 AM
>>>> >> To: NFB Talk Mailing List
>>>> >> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] New List for Blind Conservatives
>>>> >
>>>> >> Just being honest.  That's all.
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >> Sincerely,
>>>> >> The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!!!
>>>> >
>>>> >> Now a proud Mac user!!!!!
>>>> >
>>>> >> E-Mail:
>>>> >> rforetjr at comcast dot net
>>>> >> Skype:
>>>> >> barefootedray
>>>> >
>>>> >> On Apr 20, 2010, at 9:39 AM, John G. Heim wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >>> I'd suggest that if you really want to discuss this rationally
>>>>you refrain
>>>> >> from using perjoritives like "leftist" and "socialist". The
>>>>correct term is
>>>> >> "liberal" or "progressive".
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ray Foret jr" >>>
>>>> <rforetjr at comcast.net>
>>>> >>> To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>> >>> Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 10:05 PM
>>>> >>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] New List for Blind Conservatives
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>> RyanO,
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> I must publicly applaud you for taking this very long
>>>> overdue stand >>>> for
>>>> >> us blind conservatives.  Let me be completely frank here, at
>>>> perhaps >> some
>>>> >> risk to myself.  For much too long now, I have feared that
>>>> >> perhaps the federation was leaning rather too far over to the
>>>> >> left.  But
>>>>why?  It's the
>>>> >> entitlement mentality of the SSI check; to put it bluntly.  We
>>>> poor >> blind
>>>> >> think we can't live without it.  But, the sad truth is, that for
>>>>many of us,
>>>> >> that think is a physical reality.  That is the reason why more
>>>> of us >> don't
>>>> >> have jobs.  We get punished for trying to start to go to work.
>>>> When we >> do,
>>>> >> we don't make enough money to live by; and yet, on the other
>>>> hand, we >> make
>>>> >> too much to receive any help from the socialist security
>>>> system. >> What,
>>>> >> there fore, is the sad result?  The sad result is that too many
>>>> >> blind individuals adopt leftist socialism because they think that
>>>>government will
>>>> >> "look after us".  IF you just stop and consider for a moment what
>>>> >> that really means, you'll see that i
>>>> >>>> t goes directly against the grain of true
>>>> federationism.  It >>>> personally
>>>> >> hurt me when Joanne Wilson and the rest of us were deceived by
>>>> >> the Republican party in or about 2005 when Secretary Spelling
>>>> >> wanted to dismantle blind rehab.  Frankly, I felt then and feel
>>>> >> still
>>>> that my >> fellow
>>>> >> conservatives were completely wrong on that score.  They seem to
>>>> >> hate political correctness; that is, until it comes to the
>>>>blind.  That turns my
>>>> >> stomach!!!!  It sure doesn't help when any leaders of the
>>>>federation fail to
>>>> >> reach out to conservatives because they feel more comfortable
>>>> being in >> bed
>>>> >> with the socialist left.  To speak quite candidly, I was
>>>> sincerely >> hoping
>>>> >> that our fight to get money to convert over to the digital
>>>> talking >> book
>>>> >> program would have taught the lesson that we cannot afford to
>>>>ride the back
>>>> >> of the tiger for fear of ending up devoured by it. It seems,
>>>> however, >> that
>>>> >> this is not so.  Now look, just so I am not misunderstood here,
>>>>I personally
>>>> >> couldn't care whether any individu
>>>> >>>> al in the federation or on this list is a leftist, a socialist,
>>>> >>>> an
>>>> >> extreme right wing person or what ever.  What I do care about
>>>> is the >> fact
>>>> >> that so long as we do not face up to the fact that we're going
>>>> to have >> to
>>>> >> figure out a better way to live for ourselves, we'll be
>>>> looking for >> that
>>>> >> check every month which is supposed to assure us that we're
>>>> being >> looked
>>>> >> after. I'm just wondering when enough is finally going to be
>>>>enough.  What I
>>>> >> look forward to in this debate is not accusation after
>>>> >> accusation, but rather, healthy discussion about how we can rid
>>>> >> ourselves of the
>>>>entitlement
>>>> >> mentality and move in to something much better for us.
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> Sincerely,
>>>> >>>> The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!!!
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> Now a proud Mac user!!!!!
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> E-Mail:
>>>> >>>> rforetjr at comcast dot net
>>>> >>>> Skype:
>>>> >>>> barefootedray
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> On Apr 19, 2010, at 8:32 PM, RyanO (by way of David Andrews
>>>> >> <dandrews at visi.com>) wrote:
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>>> I have been asked to circulate the following:
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>> Dave
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>> In October, 2008, a fellow Federationist and I were asked
>>>> to reach >>>>> out
>>>> >> to the McCain campaign in hopes of persuading a representative
>>>>to come speak
>>>> >> at our monthly Denver chapter meeting on the topic of disability
>>>>issues. We
>>>> >> already had a rep from the Obama campaign in the person of one of
>>>> >> our members, who was an official Obama surrogate. After several
>>>> days of >> phone
>>>> >> tag, I was informed that the McCain camp would not be sending a
>>>> >> representative to speak to us. The reason I was given was
>>>> because, >> "Obama
>>>> >> was just too far ahead on disability issues."
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>> I and my fellow conservative blind friends were angry and
>>>>hurt. We tried
>>>> >> to give both sides equal time and felt we'd been told that we
>>>>didn't matter.
>>>> >> To that end, I felt I had two options. The first was to quit
>>>> >> being a conservative and jump ship over to the other side. The
>>>> >> second
>>>>option was to
>>>> >> get more actively involved and to make our voices heard on all
> levels.
>>>> >> Anyone who knows me knows that option one was not an option.
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>> To that end, I have created a mailing list called, Brush
>>>> Fires. It >>>>> is
>>>> >> primarily for blind conservatives so that we may form a network
>>>> >> of communication and information. Let me stress that everyone is
>>>> welcome >> on
>>>> >> this list, no matter what their political stripe may be. In
>>>> the spirit >> of
>>>> >> the Federation, I believe that healthy debate and discussion
>>>>fosters a more
>>>> >> vibrant society for all of its members.
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>> Right now, the list is announce only. If we get big enough,
>>>> I plan >>>>> to
>>>> >> turn it into a discussion mailing list. For more information,
>>>> please >> Email
>>>> >> me at
>>>> >>>>> ryano218 at comcast.net
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>> Thank you for your time and attention.
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>> RyanO
>
>
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