[nfb-talk] Extra Tax Exemption

[qubit]

I always used to refer to my cctv's as cars...
But I reiterate that blindness is not the most expensive handicap to deal 
with. If you go to buy a power wheelchair for example, it can run anywhere 
from $4000 to $20,000
And the cost of jaws pro version is still less than the cost of 1 hearing 
aid.
--le

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Brian Miller" <brian-r-miller at uiowa.edu>
To: "'NFB Talk Mailing List'" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2010 10:26 PM
Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Extra Tax Exemption


I agree with the reader/driver thing in terms of the expenses being a wash.


I'm less convinced when it comes to buying adaptive equipment -- in a world
where JAWS costs over $1,000, I'll take the exemption.  Maybe when we all
switch to MACs this will no longer be an issue.

I also don't buy the tax exemption = impact on hiring argument.  I just
think this is too tenuous a thread.  There are certainly other kinds of
things in the environment that may lead someone to think this, but I very
much doubt 98%of people would make that connection between the exemption and
inability to work.

Brian M

-----Original Message-----
From: nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of David Andrews
Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2010 10:49 PM
To: NFB Talk Mailing List
Subject: [nfb-talk] Extra Tax Exemption

We tell ourselves that we have added expenses -- but I am not sure this is
true.  We have different expenses, readers, drivers, cabs, etc., but in
general we don't have to buy cars and auto insurance.  They are quite
expensive, so I think that for most people it is a wash.

As to the extra exemption -- I take it too, to not take it won't make any
difference in the system so there is no reason not to take it.  However,
everybody who fills out a tax return sees that you get an extra break from
the government, like the elderly.  Why -- because you need it, you can't do
for yourself so you need government help.  Everybody sees that and I think
it does us great damage, and contributes to our high unemployment rate.

But we are not well enough off, and self aware enough, as a group, to reject
that benefit.

I suspect many people will disagree with me, and say it does no harm, but I
don't believe that for one.

Dave


At 05:23 PM 4/22/2010, you wrote:
>considering the added expenses that blind people incur what is wrong
>with the extra tax exemption? I for one will gladly continue to accept
>it without shame or guilt.
>Chuck
>----- Original Message ----- From: "David Andrews" <dandrews at visi.com>
>To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2010 5:19 PM
>Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] [NFB-talk] New List for Blind Conservatives
>
>
>>Ray:
>>
>>I think you ask some good questions -- questions that have nothing to
>>do with being a liberal or a conservative, or a dog
>>(smile.)  Your language in this message is diplomatic and considered
>>and I think accomplishes more than some previous messages.  People get
>>caught up in this and that and don't hear the message.
>>
>>I think that as a community we will ultimately decide that the price
>>for things like the extra tax exemption, SSI, SSDI, etc., is just to
>>high, but with a 70 percent unemployment rate, we are just not there
>>yet.
>>
>>No, this system isn't working, but the chance of a wholesale
>>replacement is slim.
>>
>>Dave
>>
>>At 11:14 PM 4/20/2010, you wrote:
>>>All I'm asking now is this.  do we blind people have the intestsinal
>>>fortitude to frankly face the fact that the SSI check is not the best
>>>way for us to get ahead in this society?  If even asking that is a
>>>crime in the federation, mark me down as being about as guilty as one
>>>can get. Sometimes, the truth hurts, and that fact does not negate
>>>the eventual fact that we're going to have to shut down SSI and
>>>create something better.  Yes, I'll again speak frankly here.  We
>>>need to shut down SSI and social security.  those things punish the
>>>blind for trying to work.  I said it last night and I'll say it
>>>again.  IF a blind person tries to go to work, they don't make enough
>>>money to live, and yet, too much money to get needed help.  How do I
>>>know?  It happened to me.  So, with all due respect, don't tell me I
>>>know not of what I speak!!!  I'm not saying that those who need help
>>>should not get it; but, can we not even be honest with ourselves and
>>>each other about the fact that our current set up may not be the best
>>>way to cary us in to the future?  IS that too hard to do?  Is that
>>>too much to ask?  I said what I said in this message and there's no
>>>taking it back.  Even if I wanted to, it's too late.  If we can't
>>>even be honest with ourselves about this, what have we come too?
>>>Sincerely,
>>>The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!!!
>>>
>>>Now a proud Mac user!!!!!
>>>
>>>E-Mail:
>>>rforetjr at comcast dot net
>>>Skype:
>>>barefootedray
>>>
>>>On Apr 20, 2010, at 9:50 PM, Steve Jacobson wrote:
>>>
>>> > Stepping back and examining our points of view makes a lot of
>>>sense to me and it is something I try to do often.
>>> > Actually, one element of Ray's comments that fits into this
>>>notion is that we do need to look at what we ask of society to
>>> > figure out what we need as opposed to what we want.  I further
>>>believe we need to think about the cost of what we
>>> > might request society and what the benefits are to us and to
>>>society.  These seem like reasonable questions that should
>>> > not be seen as conservative or liberal.  Still, if this is even
>>>what Ray is saying, I find it very hard to believe that our
>>> > overall status, the 70% unemployed for example, is related to a
>>>sense of entitlement.  As we make progress, we do need
>>> > to be prepared to consider that some benefits of various types
>>>are no longer needed.   However, we have some pretty
>>> > large obstacles to overcome before we get there.  Labeling us as
>>>having a sense of entitlement that overshadows the
>>> > other barriers we encounter really does not recognize
>>>reality.  To extreme conservatives and to extreme liberals, life is
>>> > just a theory.
>>> >
>>> > Best regards,
>>> >
>>> > Steve Jacobson
>>> >
>>> > On Tue, 20 Apr 2010 15:04:22 -0500, John G. Heim wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> Its almost impossible to find anyone actually interested in
>>> >> discussing liberal vs conservative issues in a rational manner.
>>> >> People should occasionally take a step back and examine their point
of view.
>>>Far too many
>>> >> people make up their minds and then start casting around for
>>> reasons >> to
>>> >> believe what they've already decided.  That's a recipe for
>>>disaster.  That's
>>> >> how mistakes are made.
>>> >
>>> >> I am actually planning to write a book about this. I'm thinking
>>>of calling
>>> >> it "Recipe For Wrongness". Almost everyone believes in freedom
>>> of >> speech.
>>> >> And most people even understand why its so important. Its not
>>>just because
>>> >> we all enjoy it. The reason why freedom of speech is so
>>>important is that it
>>> >> allows the best ideas to win out. Ideas can compete against each
>>>other in a
>>> >> society with free speech and most of the time, the best idea
>>> wins. >> Its
>>> >> called the market place of ideas.
>>> >
>>> >> But very few people apply the concept of the market place of
>>>ideas to their
>>> >> own opinions.  Its just not even something that occurs to most
>>>people to do.
>>> >> Most people make up their minds ahead of time and then start
>>>casting about
>>> >> for information to support what they already believe.  And that
>>>is a recipe
>>> >> for wrongness.
>>> >
>>> >> If you start occasionally sitting back and examining what you
>>>believe, you
>>> >> will find its an incredibly valuable tool. It even made me a
>>> better >> chess
>>> >> player. I was in a round-robin chess tournament and lost
>>> almost all of >> my
>>> >> matches until I started sitting back occasionally and trying to
>>> >> get a realistic overview of the board and my opponent. What are
>>> my >> opponent's
>>> >> strengths and weaknesses?Does he see any advantages I might not
>>>see? Is he
>>> >> missing any vulnerabilities he currently has? What's going on in
>>> >> my opponent's head? From then on, I won almost every match. It
>>> >> was
>>>like magic.
>>> >
>>> >> The real message in the chess tournament story is not the
>>> importance >> of
>>> >> trying to look into your opponents mind. The real insight there
>>>is how few
>>> >> people do it. Its not just that a lot of people are crummy
>>> chess >> players.
>>> >> Its that it would be so easy to be so much better.
>>> >
>>> >> Once you start thinking this way, you see opportunities to use it
>>> >> everywhere. Instead of just bulling ahead with your political
>>>opinions, take
>>> >> a step back occasionally and consider whether they're working
>>> or not. >> Do
>>> >> they actually make sense? Does history support or dispute my
>>>beliefs? Do I
>>> >> believe what I believe because I want to or because of the
>>>facts?  If more
>>> >> people did this, they'd be right a lot more often and the world
>>>would be a
>>> >> better place.
>>> >
>>> >> ----- Original Message -----
>>> >> From: "Michael Hingson" <info at michaelhingson.com>
>>> >> To: "'NFB Talk Mailing List'" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>> >> Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 1:45 PM
>>> >> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] [NFB-talk] New List for Blind
>>> >> Conservatives
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >> Hi all,
>>> >
>>> >> Leftist, liberal, socialist, and progressive as well as
>>> conservative >> and
>>> >> "right wing" are words.  The fact is that these words have
>>> been used >> to
>>> >> inflame and are not necessarily true or fair.
>>> >
>>> >> In our country today we are seeing a war of words escalate
>>> into anger >> and
>>> >> downright polarization on a scale we have never seen
>>> before.  I and >> others
>>> >> survived the attack at the World Trade Center and Pentagon to see
>>> >> our potential to grow stronger be negated and even see our
>>> >> resolve
>>>disintegrate
>>> >> along party lines.  Folks, it matters not our political
>>>leanings.  Knock off
>>> >> the words and find ways to come together.  Stop calling each
>>>other names and
>>> >> recognize that we all have a job to do.  In the case of the
>>> NFB it is >> to
>>> >> promote the security, equality, and opportunity which all
>>> blind >> Americans
>>> >> should have.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >> Mike Hingson
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >> The Michael Hingson Group, INC.
>>> >> "Speaking with Vision"
>>> >> Michael Hingson, President
>>> >> (415) 827-4084
>>> >> info at michaelhingson.com
>>> >> www.michaelhingson.com
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >> for info on the new KNFB Reader Mobile, visit:
>>> >> http://knfbreader.michaelhingson.com
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >> -----Original Message-----
>>> >> From: nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>> [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] >> On
>>> >> Behalf Of Ray Foret jr
>>> >> Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 8:16 AM
>>> >> To: NFB Talk Mailing List
>>> >> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] New List for Blind Conservatives
>>> >
>>> >> Just being honest.  That's all.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >> Sincerely,
>>> >> The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!!!
>>> >
>>> >> Now a proud Mac user!!!!!
>>> >
>>> >> E-Mail:
>>> >> rforetjr at comcast dot net
>>> >> Skype:
>>> >> barefootedray
>>> >
>>> >> On Apr 20, 2010, at 9:39 AM, John G. Heim wrote:
>>> >
>>> >>> I'd suggest that if you really want to discuss this rationally
>>>you refrain
>>> >> from using perjoritives like "leftist" and "socialist". The
>>>correct term is
>>> >> "liberal" or "progressive".
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ray Foret jr" >>>
>>> <rforetjr at comcast.net>
>>> >>> To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>> >>> Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 10:05 PM
>>> >>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] New List for Blind Conservatives
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>> RyanO,
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> I must publicly applaud you for taking this very long
>>> overdue stand >>>> for
>>> >> us blind conservatives.  Let me be completely frank here, at
>>> perhaps >> some
>>> >> risk to myself.  For much too long now, I have feared that
>>> >> perhaps the federation was leaning rather too far over to the
>>> >> left.  But
>>>why?  It's the
>>> >> entitlement mentality of the SSI check; to put it bluntly.  We
>>> poor >> blind
>>> >> think we can't live without it.  But, the sad truth is, that for
>>>many of us,
>>> >> that think is a physical reality.  That is the reason why more
>>> of us >> don't
>>> >> have jobs.  We get punished for trying to start to go to work.
>>> When we >> do,
>>> >> we don't make enough money to live by; and yet, on the other
>>> hand, we >> make
>>> >> too much to receive any help from the socialist security
>>> system. >> What,
>>> >> there fore, is the sad result?  The sad result is that too many
>>> >> blind individuals adopt leftist socialism because they think that
>>>government will
>>> >> "look after us".  IF you just stop and consider for a moment what
>>> >> that really means, you'll see that i
>>> >>>> t goes directly against the grain of true
>>> federationism.  It >>>> personally
>>> >> hurt me when Joanne Wilson and the rest of us were deceived by
>>> >> the Republican party in or about 2005 when Secretary Spelling
>>> >> wanted to dismantle blind rehab.  Frankly, I felt then and feel
>>> >> still
>>> that my >> fellow
>>> >> conservatives were completely wrong on that score.  They seem to
>>> >> hate political correctness; that is, until it comes to the
>>>blind.  That turns my
>>> >> stomach!!!!  It sure doesn't help when any leaders of the
>>>federation fail to
>>> >> reach out to conservatives because they feel more comfortable
>>> being in >> bed
>>> >> with the socialist left.  To speak quite candidly, I was
>>> sincerely >> hoping
>>> >> that our fight to get money to convert over to the digital
>>> talking >> book
>>> >> program would have taught the lesson that we cannot afford to
>>>ride the back
>>> >> of the tiger for fear of ending up devoured by it. It seems,
>>> however, >> that
>>> >> this is not so.  Now look, just so I am not misunderstood here,
>>>I personally
>>> >> couldn't care whether any individu
>>> >>>> al in the federation or on this list is a leftist, a socialist,
>>> >>>> an
>>> >> extreme right wing person or what ever.  What I do care about
>>> is the >> fact
>>> >> that so long as we do not face up to the fact that we're going
>>> to have >> to
>>> >> figure out a better way to live for ourselves, we'll be
>>> looking for >> that
>>> >> check every month which is supposed to assure us that we're
>>> being >> looked
>>> >> after. I'm just wondering when enough is finally going to be
>>>enough.  What I
>>> >> look forward to in this debate is not accusation after
>>> >> accusation, but rather, healthy discussion about how we can rid
>>> >> ourselves of the
>>>entitlement
>>> >> mentality and move in to something much better for us.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> Sincerely,
>>> >>>> The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!!!
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> Now a proud Mac user!!!!!
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> E-Mail:
>>> >>>> rforetjr at comcast dot net
>>> >>>> Skype:
>>> >>>> barefootedray
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> On Apr 19, 2010, at 8:32 PM, RyanO (by way of David Andrews
>>> >> <dandrews at visi.com>) wrote:
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>> I have been asked to circulate the following:
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> Dave
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> In October, 2008, a fellow Federationist and I were asked
>>> to reach >>>>> out
>>> >> to the McCain campaign in hopes of persuading a representative
>>>to come speak
>>> >> at our monthly Denver chapter meeting on the topic of disability
>>>issues. We
>>> >> already had a rep from the Obama campaign in the person of one of
>>> >> our members, who was an official Obama surrogate. After several
>>> days of >> phone
>>> >> tag, I was informed that the McCain camp would not be sending a
>>> >> representative to speak to us. The reason I was given was
>>> because, >> "Obama
>>> >> was just too far ahead on disability issues."
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> I and my fellow conservative blind friends were angry and
>>>hurt. We tried
>>> >> to give both sides equal time and felt we'd been told that we
>>>didn't matter.
>>> >> To that end, I felt I had two options. The first was to quit
>>> >> being a conservative and jump ship over to the other side. The
>>> >> second
>>>option was to
>>> >> get more actively involved and to make our voices heard on all
levels.
>>> >> Anyone who knows me knows that option one was not an option.
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> To that end, I have created a mailing list called, Brush
>>> Fires. It >>>>> is
>>> >> primarily for blind conservatives so that we may form a network
>>> >> of communication and information. Let me stress that everyone is
>>> welcome >> on
>>> >> this list, no matter what their political stripe may be. In
>>> the spirit >> of
>>> >> the Federation, I believe that healthy debate and discussion
>>>fosters a more
>>> >> vibrant society for all of its members.
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> Right now, the list is announce only. If we get big enough,
>>> I plan >>>>> to
>>> >> turn it into a discussion mailing list. For more information,
>>> please >> Email
>>> >> me at
>>> >>>>> ryano218 at comcast.net
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> Thank you for your time and attention.
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> RyanO


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