[nfb-talk] National Federation of the BlindDefendsRightsofBlindStudents

ckrugman at sbcglobal.net ckrugman at sbcglobal.net
Thu Aug 12 14:24:26 UTC 2010


This is now a moot point due to provisions of S. 3404 recently passed which 
includes a certain number of hours for descriptive audio in television 
programming and other provisions. Note the date of this article was 2001.
chuck
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "John Heim" <jheim at math.wisc.edu>
To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 7:35 AM
Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] National Federation of the 
BlindDefendsRightsofBlindStudents


> Read this:
>
> http://nfb.org/legacy/bm/bm01/bm0105/bm010506.htm
>
> One problem I have with his article is comparing DVS to making a symphony 
> accessible to the deaf. In fact, Dr. Maurer's own comments work against 
> him. DVS does not "alter the essence of the experience". That's exactly 
> *why* its not a violation of the artists First Amendment rights. You could 
> make a much stronger case that books on tape alter the experience of 
> reading a book than DVS does for watching a movie.  Other things that 
> would violate the First Amendment by Dr. Maurer's standards would be 
> closed captioning and even braille books. Doesn't reading a book via your 
> sense of touch alter the experience compared to using your sense of sight? 
> What if an author argued that his book shouldn't be converted to braille 
> or audio tape because it just isn't the same if the reader couldn't see 
> his words?
>
> But the main problem I have with Dr. Maurer's opinions is regarding this 
> comment,  "We think access to information is essential as a matter of 
> civil rights, but access to entertainment is not."
>
> Access to entertainment is indeed a civil right. Movie theaters and even 
> porn shops have to be wheelchair accessible. As a lawyer, Dr. Maurer 
> should know that. Its not clear to me whether he is expressing a personal 
> view or a legal principle. But he's going  against 20 years of legal 
> president if he intends that as a legal comment.
>
> It strikes me as extraordinarily irresponsible for Dr. Maurer to try to 
> turn the clock back like that. If movie theaters didn't have to have 
> wheelchair ramps, it may not alter the course of human history but it 
> certainly would put civil rights for the disable back a long, long way. If 
> he feels that way personally, that disabled people don't have the right to 
> access to entertainment, that's fine with me. But that is not a thing for 
> a person in his position to be arguing. If he feels that way, he should 
> resign as President of the NFB and start an organization called "Turn the 
> Clock Back 20 Years" or something like that.
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Dewey Bradley" <dewey.bradley at att.net>
> To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2010 6:57 PM
> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] National Federation of the 
> BlindDefendsRightsofBlind Students
>
>
>>I had read something years ago that the ACB got that put through, but the 
>>NFB got it stopped, but I never confirmed that.
>> But of course the companies are going to fight it
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "John Heim" <jheim at math.wisc.edu>
>> To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2010 2:49 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] National Federation of the Blind 
>> DefendsRightsofBlind Students
>>
>>
>>> Did you see that the bill that passed last Thursday authorizes the FCC 
>>> to require a certain number of hours of DVS each week on the 4 major 
>>> networks? There are probably lots of things in that bill that the NFB 
>>> approves of but it sure didn't approve of that.
>>>
>>> On the other hand, the bill also requires that emergency information be 
>>> accessible. The NFB has been fighting for that for years.
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "Dewey Bradley" <dewey.bradley at att.net>
>>> To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2010 2:20 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] National Federation of the Blind Defends 
>>> RightsofBlind Students
>>>
>>>
>>>> Its the same thing as the cable and dish companies, I guess the market 
>>>> is not big enough for them, We could buy on demand movies and give them 
>>>> more money, but they don't think they can off set the caust I guess.
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>> From: "Ray Foret Jr" <rforetjr at comcast.net>
>>>> To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2010 10:26 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] National Federation of the Blind Defends Rights 
>>>> ofBlind Students
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> John,  you'll get no argument from me on any of the points you bring 
>>>>> up in this message for sure.
>>>>>
>>>>> ON this matter, we're exactly on the same page.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>> The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!
>>>>>
>>>>> A Very Proud and Happy Mac User!!!
>>>>>
>>>>> E-Mail:
>>>>> rforetjr at comcast dot net
>>>>> Skype Name:
>>>>> barefootedray
>>>>>
>>>>> On Aug 10, 2010, at 9:38 AM, John Heim wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Yeah, the arguments against what the NFB, ACB, and Justice Department 
>>>>>> have done are laughable.  Critics would have us believe Amazon made 
>>>>>> the Kindle accessible on its own because the free market required it. 
>>>>>> Hmmm.... Nah, I gotta say I don't think so.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The closest that argument comes to making sense is the fact that some 
>>>>>> universities  not named in the lawsuit dropped their plans to buy 
>>>>>> kindles because it wasn't accessible. But they did that because of 
>>>>>> the lawsuits. Some universities had the foresight to realize that 
>>>>>> their plans to buy kindles violated anti-discrimination laws and 
>>>>>> dropped their plans before any legal action was taken against them. 
>>>>>> The University of Wisconsin, where I work, was one of them. But there 
>>>>>> is no reason to believe they'd have done that if the law didn't 
>>>>>> require it.Amazon saw what was happening and fixed their device.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Critics also point to the variety of accessible devices out there 
>>>>>> like the IPhone and IPad saying its evidence that the free market 
>>>>>> works. But its just not true. Apple developed a screen reader because 
>>>>>> they knew that if they didn't have a screen reader, they wouldn't be 
>>>>>> able to sell Macintoshes to schools and universities. I saw this 
>>>>>> first hand at the University of Wisconsin. We started putting Windows 
>>>>>> machines with jaws into the computer labs where there used to be 
>>>>>> Macs. We didn't have any choice. We had to supply computers with 
>>>>>> screen readers. Now, Macs are going back into the libraries and 
>>>>>> computer labs because each Mac comes with a free screen reader.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The key point here is that Amazon and Apple  made their products 
>>>>>> accessible to sell them to schools, not to blind people.  They didn't 
>>>>>> say, "We need to make our products accessible in order to tap into 
>>>>>> that very lucrative blind market." They simply realized they wouldn't 
>>>>>> be able to sell their products to schools unless they were accessible 
>>>>>> and that's because of laws and regulations, not the free market.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The fact is that even schools and universities will ignore the laws 
>>>>>> requiring access unless they are forced to comply. I've seen this too 
>>>>>> first hand at the University of Wisconsin. People want to do the 
>>>>>> right thing but they have budgets and time constraints to deal with. 
>>>>>> As someone who ahs dealt with these issues for many years, I don't 
>>>>>> believe for a second that any university would have stopped its plans 
>>>>>> to buy the Kindle had it not been for the lawsuits.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Freeh,Jessica (by way of David 
>>>>>> Andrews <dandrews at visi.com>)" <JFreeh at nfb.org>
>>>>>> To: <david.andrews at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2010 2:42 AM
>>>>>> Subject: [nfb-talk] National Federation of the Blind Defends Rights 
>>>>>> of Blind Students
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> CONTACT:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Chris Danielsen
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Director of Public Relations
>>>>>>
>>>>>> National Federation of the Blind
>>>>>>
>>>>>> (410) 659-9314, extension 2330
>>>>>>
>>>>>> (410) 262-1281 (Cell)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <mailto:cdanielsen at nfb.org>cdanielsen at nfb.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> National Federation of the Blind Defends Rights of Blind Students
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Calls for Equal Access to Information and Technology in America's 
>>>>>> Universities
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Baltimore, Maryland (August 9, 2010): The
>>>>>> National Federation of the Blind (NFB) responded
>>>>>> today to recent attacks on the right of blind
>>>>>> students to have equal access to technologies
>>>>>> used by America's universities and to the
>>>>>> textbooks and course materials offered by
>>>>>> institutions of higher learning.  The NFB and the
>>>>>> United States Department of Justice, Civil Rights
>>>>>> Division, have come under attack in recent days
>>>>>> for reaching settlements with universities
>>>>>> requiring that the universities refrain from
>>>>>> purchasing any e-book technology that is not fully accessible to the 
>>>>>> blind.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National
>>>>>> Federation of the Blind, said: "Blind students
>>>>>> must have access to the same textbooks and course
>>>>>> materials and the same technology to read them as
>>>>>> all other students.  This is not only a matter of
>>>>>> fairness to blind students but a requirement of
>>>>>> federal law.  For this reason, we applaud the
>>>>>> United States Department of Justice, acting at
>>>>>> our request and pursuant to its mandate to
>>>>>> enforce this nation's disability rights laws, for
>>>>>> reaching landmark settlements with colleges and
>>>>>> universities ensuring that e-book technologies
>>>>>> deployed by these institutions will be accessible
>>>>>> to all their students.  With the announcement of
>>>>>> a new accessible Amazon Kindle, the recent
>>>>>> introduction of the Apple iPad, and the promise
>>>>>> of future accessible e-book products many of
>>>>>> which would not have been made accessible without
>>>>>> our advocacy efforts colleges and universities
>>>>>> will find it increasingly easy to procure e-book
>>>>>> technology that benefits everyone.  These
>>>>>> settlements benefit not only blind students, who
>>>>>> will now have access to the same books at the
>>>>>> same time and at the same price as their sighted
>>>>>> peers, but also institutions of higher learning,
>>>>>> which will no longer incur the administrative
>>>>>> burden of producing or procuring accessible books
>>>>>> through separate and inferior methods.  To the
>>>>>> extent that inaccessible e-book technology
>>>>>> remains a barrier to the equal education of the
>>>>>> blind, however, the National Federation of the
>>>>>> Blind will continue to fight for the educational
>>>>>> and legal rights of blind students, and we will
>>>>>> not hesitate to call upon the Department of
>>>>>> Justice and other government authorities to
>>>>>> assist us in doing so when necessary."
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ###
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> About the National Federation of the Blind
>>>>>>
>>>>>> With more than 50,000 members, the National
>>>>>> Federation of the Blind is the largest and most
>>>>>> influential membership organization of blind
>>>>>> people in the <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns =
>>>>>> "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"
>>>>>> />United States.  The NFB improves blind people's
>>>>>> lives through advocacy, education, research,
>>>>>> technology, and programs encouraging independence
>>>>>> and self-confidence.  It is the leading force in
>>>>>> the blindness field today and the voice of the
>>>>>> nation's blind.  In January 2004 the NFB opened
>>>>>> the National Federation of the Blind Jernigan
>>>>>> Institute, the first research and training center
>>>>>> in the United States for the blind led by the blind.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nfb-talk mailing list
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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>>>>>
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>>>>
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