[nfb-talk] National Federation of theBlindDefendsRightsofBlindStudents

John Heim jheim at math.wisc.edu
Thu Aug 12 15:30:34 UTC 2010


Its not moot yet.  The TV networks could fight this on First Amendment 
grounds. The previous regulations imposed by the FCC were struck down 
because the court ruled the FCC didn't have the authority to impose those 
regulations. If the court had already ruled that requiring DVS violated the 
artist's First Amendment rights, then the bill just passed by Congress would 
be unconstitutional. Congress wouldn't even bother passing such a law.

Of course, its anybody's guess as to whether the networks will fight this. 
If they do, which side will the NFB be on?

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <ckrugman at sbcglobal.net>
To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2010 9:24 AM
Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] National Federation of 
theBlindDefendsRightsofBlindStudents


> This is now a moot point due to provisions of S. 3404 recently passed 
> which includes a certain number of hours for descriptive audio in 
> television programming and other provisions. Note the date of this article 
> was 2001.
> chuck
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "John Heim" <jheim at math.wisc.edu>
> To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 7:35 AM
> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] National Federation of the 
> BlindDefendsRightsofBlindStudents
>
>
>> Read this:
>>
>> http://nfb.org/legacy/bm/bm01/bm0105/bm010506.htm
>>
>> One problem I have with his article is comparing DVS to making a symphony 
>> accessible to the deaf. In fact, Dr. Maurer's own comments work against 
>> him. DVS does not "alter the essence of the experience". That's exactly 
>> *why* its not a violation of the artists First Amendment rights. You 
>> could make a much stronger case that books on tape alter the experience 
>> of reading a book than DVS does for watching a movie.  Other things that 
>> would violate the First Amendment by Dr. Maurer's standards would be 
>> closed captioning and even braille books. Doesn't reading a book via your 
>> sense of touch alter the experience compared to using your sense of 
>> sight? What if an author argued that his book shouldn't be converted to 
>> braille or audio tape because it just isn't the same if the reader 
>> couldn't see his words?
>>
>> But the main problem I have with Dr. Maurer's opinions is regarding this 
>> comment,  "We think access to information is essential as a matter of 
>> civil rights, but access to entertainment is not."
>>
>> Access to entertainment is indeed a civil right. Movie theaters and even 
>> porn shops have to be wheelchair accessible. As a lawyer, Dr. Maurer 
>> should know that. Its not clear to me whether he is expressing a personal 
>> view or a legal principle. But he's going  against 20 years of legal 
>> president if he intends that as a legal comment.
>>
>> It strikes me as extraordinarily irresponsible for Dr. Maurer to try to 
>> turn the clock back like that. If movie theaters didn't have to have 
>> wheelchair ramps, it may not alter the course of human history but it 
>> certainly would put civil rights for the disable back a long, long way. 
>> If he feels that way personally, that disabled people don't have the 
>> right to access to entertainment, that's fine with me. But that is not a 
>> thing for a person in his position to be arguing. If he feels that way, 
>> he should resign as President of the NFB and start an organization called 
>> "Turn the Clock Back 20 Years" or something like that.
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Dewey Bradley" <dewey.bradley at att.net>
>> To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2010 6:57 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] National Federation of the 
>> BlindDefendsRightsofBlind Students
>>
>>
>>>I had read something years ago that the ACB got that put through, but the 
>>>NFB got it stopped, but I never confirmed that.
>>> But of course the companies are going to fight it
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "John Heim" <jheim at math.wisc.edu>
>>> To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2010 2:49 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] National Federation of the Blind 
>>> DefendsRightsofBlind Students
>>>
>>>
>>>> Did you see that the bill that passed last Thursday authorizes the FCC 
>>>> to require a certain number of hours of DVS each week on the 4 major 
>>>> networks? There are probably lots of things in that bill that the NFB 
>>>> approves of but it sure didn't approve of that.
>>>>
>>>> On the other hand, the bill also requires that emergency information be 
>>>> accessible. The NFB has been fighting for that for years.
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>> From: "Dewey Bradley" <dewey.bradley at att.net>
>>>> To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2010 2:20 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] National Federation of the Blind Defends 
>>>> RightsofBlind Students
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Its the same thing as the cable and dish companies, I guess the market 
>>>>> is not big enough for them, We could buy on demand movies and give 
>>>>> them more money, but they don't think they can off set the caust I 
>>>>> guess.
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>> From: "Ray Foret Jr" <rforetjr at comcast.net>
>>>>> To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2010 10:26 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] National Federation of the Blind Defends 
>>>>> Rights ofBlind Students
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> John,  you'll get no argument from me on any of the points you bring 
>>>>>> up in this message for sure.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ON this matter, we're exactly on the same page.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>>> The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A Very Proud and Happy Mac User!!!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> E-Mail:
>>>>>> rforetjr at comcast dot net
>>>>>> Skype Name:
>>>>>> barefootedray
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Aug 10, 2010, at 9:38 AM, John Heim wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yeah, the arguments against what the NFB, ACB, and Justice 
>>>>>>> Department have done are laughable.  Critics would have us believe 
>>>>>>> Amazon made the Kindle accessible on its own because the free market 
>>>>>>> required it. Hmmm.... Nah, I gotta say I don't think so.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The closest that argument comes to making sense is the fact that 
>>>>>>> some universities  not named in the lawsuit dropped their plans to 
>>>>>>> buy kindles because it wasn't accessible. But they did that because 
>>>>>>> of the lawsuits. Some universities had the foresight to realize that 
>>>>>>> their plans to buy kindles violated anti-discrimination laws and 
>>>>>>> dropped their plans before any legal action was taken against them. 
>>>>>>> The University of Wisconsin, where I work, was one of them. But 
>>>>>>> there is no reason to believe they'd have done that if the law 
>>>>>>> didn't require it.Amazon saw what was happening and fixed their 
>>>>>>> device.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Critics also point to the variety of accessible devices out there 
>>>>>>> like the IPhone and IPad saying its evidence that the free market 
>>>>>>> works. But its just not true. Apple developed a screen reader 
>>>>>>> because they knew that if they didn't have a screen reader, they 
>>>>>>> wouldn't be able to sell Macintoshes to schools and universities. I 
>>>>>>> saw this first hand at the University of Wisconsin. We started 
>>>>>>> putting Windows machines with jaws into the computer labs where 
>>>>>>> there used to be Macs. We didn't have any choice. We had to supply 
>>>>>>> computers with screen readers. Now, Macs are going back into the 
>>>>>>> libraries and computer labs because each Mac comes with a free 
>>>>>>> screen reader.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The key point here is that Amazon and Apple  made their products 
>>>>>>> accessible to sell them to schools, not to blind people.  They 
>>>>>>> didn't say, "We need to make our products accessible in order to tap 
>>>>>>> into that very lucrative blind market." They simply realized they 
>>>>>>> wouldn't be able to sell their products to schools unless they were 
>>>>>>> accessible and that's because of laws and regulations, not the free 
>>>>>>> market.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The fact is that even schools and universities will ignore the laws 
>>>>>>> requiring access unless they are forced to comply. I've seen this 
>>>>>>> too first hand at the University of Wisconsin. People want to do the 
>>>>>>> right thing but they have budgets and time constraints to deal with. 
>>>>>>> As someone who ahs dealt with these issues for many years, I don't 
>>>>>>> believe for a second that any university would have stopped its 
>>>>>>> plans to buy the Kindle had it not been for the lawsuits.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Freeh,Jessica (by way of David 
>>>>>>> Andrews <dandrews at visi.com>)" <JFreeh at nfb.org>
>>>>>>> To: <david.andrews at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2010 2:42 AM
>>>>>>> Subject: [nfb-talk] National Federation of the Blind Defends Rights 
>>>>>>> of Blind Students
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> CONTACT:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Chris Danielsen
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Director of Public Relations
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> National Federation of the Blind
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> (410) 659-9314, extension 2330
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> (410) 262-1281 (Cell)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <mailto:cdanielsen at nfb.org>cdanielsen at nfb.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> National Federation of the Blind Defends Rights of Blind Students
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Calls for Equal Access to Information and Technology in America's 
>>>>>>> Universities
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Baltimore, Maryland (August 9, 2010): The
>>>>>>> National Federation of the Blind (NFB) responded
>>>>>>> today to recent attacks on the right of blind
>>>>>>> students to have equal access to technologies
>>>>>>> used by America's universities and to the
>>>>>>> textbooks and course materials offered by
>>>>>>> institutions of higher learning.  The NFB and the
>>>>>>> United States Department of Justice, Civil Rights
>>>>>>> Division, have come under attack in recent days
>>>>>>> for reaching settlements with universities
>>>>>>> requiring that the universities refrain from
>>>>>>> purchasing any e-book technology that is not fully accessible to the 
>>>>>>> blind.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National
>>>>>>> Federation of the Blind, said: "Blind students
>>>>>>> must have access to the same textbooks and course
>>>>>>> materials and the same technology to read them as
>>>>>>> all other students.  This is not only a matter of
>>>>>>> fairness to blind students but a requirement of
>>>>>>> federal law.  For this reason, we applaud the
>>>>>>> United States Department of Justice, acting at
>>>>>>> our request and pursuant to its mandate to
>>>>>>> enforce this nation's disability rights laws, for
>>>>>>> reaching landmark settlements with colleges and
>>>>>>> universities ensuring that e-book technologies
>>>>>>> deployed by these institutions will be accessible
>>>>>>> to all their students.  With the announcement of
>>>>>>> a new accessible Amazon Kindle, the recent
>>>>>>> introduction of the Apple iPad, and the promise
>>>>>>> of future accessible e-book products many of
>>>>>>> which would not have been made accessible without
>>>>>>> our advocacy efforts colleges and universities
>>>>>>> will find it increasingly easy to procure e-book
>>>>>>> technology that benefits everyone.  These
>>>>>>> settlements benefit not only blind students, who
>>>>>>> will now have access to the same books at the
>>>>>>> same time and at the same price as their sighted
>>>>>>> peers, but also institutions of higher learning,
>>>>>>> which will no longer incur the administrative
>>>>>>> burden of producing or procuring accessible books
>>>>>>> through separate and inferior methods.  To the
>>>>>>> extent that inaccessible e-book technology
>>>>>>> remains a barrier to the equal education of the
>>>>>>> blind, however, the National Federation of the
>>>>>>> Blind will continue to fight for the educational
>>>>>>> and legal rights of blind students, and we will
>>>>>>> not hesitate to call upon the Department of
>>>>>>> Justice and other government authorities to
>>>>>>> assist us in doing so when necessary."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ###
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> About the National Federation of the Blind
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> With more than 50,000 members, the National
>>>>>>> Federation of the Blind is the largest and most
>>>>>>> influential membership organization of blind
>>>>>>> people in the <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns =
>>>>>>> "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"
>>>>>>> />United States.  The NFB improves blind people's
>>>>>>> lives through advocacy, education, research,
>>>>>>> technology, and programs encouraging independence
>>>>>>> and self-confidence.  It is the leading force in
>>>>>>> the blindness field today and the voice of the
>>>>>>> nation's blind.  In January 2004 the NFB opened
>>>>>>> the National Federation of the Blind Jernigan
>>>>>>> Institute, the first research and training center
>>>>>>> in the United States for the blind led by the blind.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
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