[nfb-talk] TSA discrimination in Orlando

Steve Jacobson steve.jacobson at visi.com
Tue Jul 12 17:24:51 UTC 2011


Brian,

I have a fiberglass cane with a chain and a metal tip and when I've taken it through it has not set off the detector.  I have noticed that keeping the tip in 
contact with the ground seems to make a difference.  Perhaps I have been lucky, though.

Best regards,

Steve Jacobson

On Tue, 12 Jul 2011 11:41:32 -0400, Brian Miller wrote:

>Hi Benet,

>Thanks for sharing your stories, perspective, and wise observations.  

>I'm really curious, though, as like you, I travel a fair bit -- more than
>most, less than others, and I've always avoided taking my cane through the
>detectors as I have had it set them off too many times... I have your
>standard NFB long white cane with a metal tip, and sometimes with a metal
>chain.  

>You say your cane never, or rarely sets off the machine -- I wonder what
>others who use the same kind of cane experience?

>Brian M


>-----Original Message-----
>From: nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>Behalf Of Michael Bullis
>Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2011 11:09 AM
>To: 'NFB Talk Mailing List'
>Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] TSA discrimination in Orlando

>Very well said Ben.  I'm glad to see somebody put this into some
>perspective.  And, you were nice about it, not questioning the motives and
>actions of others, not ranting, Etc.  Maybe I'll continue to read this list
>after all.
>Mike Bullis


>-----Original Message-----
>From: nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>Behalf Of Prows, Bennett (HHS/OCR)
>Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2011 10:49 AM
>To: NFB Talk Mailing List
>Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] TSA discrimination in Orlando

>What we need here is calm.  This is a frustrating issue, that isn't going to
>foster consensus any time soon, unless we all organize an acceptable
>response that works for the vast majority of us, and then we all act
>accordingly.  However, as many different points of view, as there are, and
>emotions that run through the security checks done by TSA folks, I think we
>may be trying to herd cats here.  

>My experience with tSA in Florida was that just at the time I was going to
>go through the metal detector *using my *cane*, one TSA guy said I need to
>take your cane to x-ray it.  I explained that I understood, and that I would
>stop on the other side of the machine after walking through with my cane
>which most likely wouldn't set the machine off, and give it to him to do
>with whatever he wanted.  He told me to go ahead, I went through without
>incident, handed him my cane, waited a few seconds, and he gave it back
>after putting it through the scanner.

>In other airports, I have had, ..., shall we say, firmer discussions, but
>none has resulted in more than a few minutes of checking, explaining, then
>walking through the scanner with my cane in tact.

>I may have been lucky so far.  but, I do travel more than some, and less
>than others.  Usually, and I emphasize *usually, I get through security at a
>comfort level I can tolerate.  Though, all that having been said, I still
>hate airports, security, airline folks that assume I am not capable of
>thinking, walking, talking, understanding, etc, just because I don't see.  

>One final story.  A colleague and I were flying back to Seattle after
>convention.  Everything had gone quite well throughout the day.  In fact,
>Mike Freeman, his wife, and we had a nice opportunity to kill time in
>hotels, airports, etc, while waiting for time to fly.  But we got into a
>short conversation about the frustrations at airports, etc somewhere along
>the way.  I got to Seattle, and was headed for the baggage claim, and a
>large gentleman asked me if I needed help getting to baggage claim.  I said
>something like, just a little direction.  And, of course, he said "oh here,
>I'll help", and proceeded to wrap a large arm around mine.  And, I guess in
>frustration, or without thinking, I said, "Hey, don't do that, ..., it just
>bugs the expletive* out of me."  It surprised me, because I don't even like
>the expletive I uttered, (which begins with a letter other than S.)  He
>didn't really run away, or apologize, just said something like he was just
>trying to help.  I apologized for the language, but tried to explain it was
>his physical action that got to me.  I also said I appreciated his intent to
>give me direction though, but by then, he'd left.  I felt bad, because he
>may not think to assist anyone in the future.  But, don't I have the right
>to get angry at some point too?

>Anyway, have a nice day, and hope your travels are rewarding.

>/s/


>Bennett
>-----Original Message-----
>From: nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>Behalf Of T. Joseph Carter
>Sent: Monday, July 11, 2011 8:29 PM
>To: NFB Talk Mailing List
>Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] TSA discrimination in Orlando

>So what you're saying, Brian, is that you're willing to be intimidated into
>giving up your rights, because the big boogeyman TSA agents can do too much
>to you if you don't do exactly what they say, whether it's illegal or flies
>in the face of every battle we have fought long and hard for as an
>organization?

>Just want to be sure I understand here.  Because the TSA said that of nearly
>3,000 blind people going through the airport, I'm the only one who insisted
>that I had a right NOT to be led around like a child, denied the use of my
>cane for travel.

>Joseph


>On Mon, Jul 11, 2011 at 09:07:58PM -0400, Brian Miller wrote:
>>Hi Peter,
>>
>>I don't think anyone feels that Joe was treated well, or with the 
>>respect he deserves, but security checks are a serious hassle and a 
>>drag for everyone, and indignities abound.  I think solidarity across 
>>the board, and not just for blind people, is in order.
>>
>>I merely say that for me using my cane to walk a few feet through the 
>>metal detector is not worth fighting over -- the last thing I need is 
>>to end up on a "no fly" list.  The point is, you are exactly right that 
>>the blind have been fighting, and getting arrested, and going to jail, 
>>for years over our right to have our mobility devices, and we've won 
>>some, and lost many others.  I think we need to figure out where to 
>>focus our energies to maximize independence while recognizing that we 
>>face a very difficult environment in which to make our arguments when it
>comes to security.
>>
>>Heck, we still don't, and maybe never will, have the right to sit in 
>>the emergency row -- now that makes me feel more like a child than does 
>>a quick guide through the magnetometer .
>>
>>Not long ago Dr. Fred Schoeder was denied the right to fly to a meeting 
>>because he was traveling alone... Granted, this was not in the United 
>>States, but that kind of right of freedom of movement, is something I'm 
>>willing to lie down on the tarmac for and go to jail.... Maybe not a 
>>jail in Thailand, though *smile*
>>
>>In any case, I don't think Alicia, or any of us, are trying to miminize 
>>the fight we all face.
>>
>>Brian M
>>
>>
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] 
>>On Behalf Of Peter Donahue
>>Sent: Monday, July 11, 2011 11:30 AM
>>To: Alicia Richards; NFB Talk Mailing List
>>Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] TSA discrimination in Orlando
>>
>>Hello Alicia and everyone,
>>
>>The next time you pass through a TSA Check point we'll cut both of your 
>>feet off and demand that you walk through like anyone else. Blind 
>>people have fought long and hard to be allowed to keep their canes and 
>>dogs with them at all times while passing through TSA check points and on
>planes themselves.
>>Blind people were arrested and went to jail to insure these rights are 
>>protected and we don't need our own people telling us that it's not a 
>>big deal.
>>
>>Peter Donahue who along with Mary took their last flight ever on a 
>>commercial airliner and can look forward to avoiding TSA screeners in 
>>the future!
>>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "Alicia Richards" <alicianfb at gmail.com>
>>To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>Sent: Sunday, July 10, 2011 11:37 PM
>>Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] TSA discrimination in Orlando
>>
>>
>>I agree with Mike and others here.  Yes, the TSA has been given too 
>>much power.  It's shameful that they can perform such invasive 
>>patdowns, violating one's personal space and dignity.  but as Ryan 
>>said, that's not a blindness issue: they can do that to anyone.  And, 
>>I've never understood people's issue with giving up their cane for 30 
>>seconds, taking someone's hand to walk five steps through the security 
>>check, and then have their cane handed right back to them.  I question 
>>someone's mobility training if they are unable to walk five steps 
>>without their cane, and also can't help but wonder if they're 
>>exhibiting what I believe was once called, "rebellious independence," 
>>by refusing to take the hand or arm of a TSA official for that very 
>>brief time.  But to each their own.  Joseph, I'll be curious if you get a
>reply from Scott LaBarre about this?
>>
>>Alicia
>>
>>
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>>
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