[nfb-talk] Fwd: Why did the National Federation of the BlindCondemns Lack of Access to New Kindle Fire?
T. Joseph Carter
tjcarter at spiritsubstance.com
Tue Oct 4 23:35:58 UTC 2011
Actually, since fixing the problem we asked them to fix would've
required five minutes of a webmaster's time, and they doubtless spent
many thousands of dollars fighting the battle, it truly was insane
that they wouldn't add half a line of text to a single file to label
a graphic button.
But sometimes, you hit stubborn refusal, and then you have to let the
lawyers out of their cages.
Joseph
On Tue, Oct 04, 2011 at 07:30:04PM -0400, Wm. Ritchhart wrote:
>NFB wouldn't need to go to court if Amazon and companies like would make
>their products accessible. Indeed avoiding court is always cheaper than
>litigating. When Tar-Get finally lost the law suit that required them to
>make their web site accessible, they not only had the rather small expense
>of complying with the ruling; they also had legal fees that had to be 10 or
>20 times the cost of just doing the right thing to begin with.
>
>Thanks, William
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>Behalf Of Nimer M. Jaber, IC³
>Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2011 5:22 PM
>To: NFB Talk Mailing List
>Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Fwd: Why did the National Federation of the
>BlindCondemns Lack of Access to New Kindle Fire?
>
>Yeah yeah yeah, and if the NFB decided to educate instead of talk too
>much and go to court over everything and anything then maybe
>organizations such as Amazon would be more willing and receptive to
>making their products accessible. Just saying ...
>
>On 04.10.2011, Prows, Bennett (HHS/OCR) <Bennett.Prows at hhs.gov> wrote:
>> I might jump in here to say, that sometimes when someone like this is
>> educated a bit more, he might change his tune. for example, since we know
>> that touch-screen technology is now usable by blind persons, (witness
>> i-phones, etc), and since other reading devices and software for
>downloading
>> books is usable by the blind, (witness BLIO software, etc), there is no
>> reason why Amazon can't make its device usable. And it does have
>> proprietary rights on a lot of written material in electronic format that
>> other companies and devices don't have. Also, we have been trying to get
>> Amazon, one of the largest purveyors of e-books and devices in the world
>to
>> comply with laws pertaining to providing devices to blind students,
>business
>> professionals and other members of the public for a long time, yet that
>> company has refused to work with us, etc. Perhaps the tirade would abate
>> when he realizes that if we don't do something, we will be left behind in
>> the age of rapid technology change, etc. Or, maybe his tirade wouldn't
>> change. If not, might as well ignore the source.
>>
>> Thank God for Doctor Maurer and the NFB to keep fighting for our equal
>> access to the technology out there.
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf Of Mike Freeman
>> Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2011 1:45 PM
>> To: NFB Talk Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Fwd: Why did the National Federation of the
>> BlindCondemns Lack of Access to New Kindle Fire?
>>
>> I suspect Dr. Maurer can defend himself if he thinks it's important.
>>
>> Mike Freeman
>> sent from my iPhone
>>
>>
>> On Oct 4, 2011, at 13:35, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> We wouldn't have had the issue, if the guy didn't insult Dr Maurer.
>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>
>>> On 10/4/11, Jeanette Fortin <jeanette at fortin-home.com> wrote:
>>>> well hum, i think insulting folks just because they disagree with you
>>>> doesn't show too much intelligence either, this fellow is entitled to
>his
>>>> opinion after all and whether you agree with im or not you are entitled
>>>> to
>>>> your opinion. jeanette
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Ray Foret Jr" <rforetjr at att.net>
>>>> To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2011 1:54 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Fwd: Why did the National Federation of the
>>>> BlindCondemns Lack of Access to New Kindle Fire?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Why waste our time with this? Nothing new from the simple minded sapps
>>>>> who oppose us surely?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>> The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!
>>>>>
>>>>> Now a very proud and happy Mac user!!!
>>>>>
>>>>> Skype name:
>>>>> barefootedray
>>>>>
>>>>> Facebook:
>>>>> facebook.com/ray.foretjr.1
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Oct 4, 2011, at 2:45 PM, Joshua Lester wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi, it's Joshua Lester.
>>>>>> Look at what this idiot just sent, to the entire NFB of Arkansas!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>>>>> From: terrysteve at suddenlink.net
>>>>>> Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2011 13:59:48 -0500
>>>>>> Subject: Why did the National Federation of the Blind Condemns Lack of
>>>>>> Access to New Kindle Fire?
>>>>>> To: tosheeler at cox.net, bkshfreeman at gmail.com, bfreeman0420 at gmail.com,
>>>>>> vtscott at cox.net, leaann1967 at gmail.com, j.scholes at sbcglobal.net,
>>>>>> bogan1265 at yahoo.com, geofynder at gmail.com, Gogetm00 at aol.com,
>>>>>> hayleyksch at gmail.com, dave.mehler at gmail.com, walkercutoff at att.net,
>>>>>> Donna.Walker at arkansas.gov, Matt.Lyles at arkansas.gov,
>>>>>> lyles_j at sbcglobal.net, honestblindman at gmail.com, pat.nfb at att.net,
>>>>>> bkkindle at yahoo.com, Teddey3000 at aol.com, james.worley at cox.net,
>>>>>> twedwards1111 at gmail.com, anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com, deweycoursey at cox.net,
>>>>>> lizngraves at yahoo.com, erp at uark.edu, mika_hooper at yahoo.com,
>>>>>> Matteri at cox.net, donbrey at gmail.com, trinitymlovell at gmail.com,
>>>>>> clj_smith at yahoo.com, arspurplegirl at cox.net, delreal93 at yahoo.com,
>>>>>> ctroby at uark.edu, e.yarberry at gmail.com, jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu,
>>>>>> gvwright2 at juno.com, lhwayland at sbcglobal.net, joshcrunkleton at gmail.com,
>>>>>> showard826 at gmail.com, jsexson at live.com, sflesher at yahoo.com,
>>>>>> diane403bill at suddenlink.net, abhoxeng at yahoo.com, hoxeng at aol.com,
>>>>>> barefootinar at yahoo.com, peter-hoffman at att.net, kaylaltodd at gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Get a grip folks! There are many devices designed, manufactured and
>>>>>> sold
>>>>>> that are not "blind friendly". And rightly so! It was stated that "The
>>>>>> feasibility of including accessibility in similar products has been
>>>>>> demonstrated." As a result of this statement there must be devices of
>>>>>> this
>>>>>> nature that are "blind friendly". So the blind apparently do have this
>>>>>> technology available to them. And just to put a point on it, the
>Kindle
>>>>>> Fire
>>>>>> is a PERSONAL devise, not a community device. There are dozens of
>>>>>> devices
>>>>>> that use touch screens. None of these are "blind friendly". I doubt if
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> technology now exists to make them "blind friendly".
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This tirade by Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation
>of
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> Blind, is typical of individuals that get so fanatical about an issue
>>>>>> they
>>>>>> have loose touch with the reality of the real world in their
>>>>>> unrealistic
>>>>>> search for and unworldly and unobtainable utopia. I have books on my
>>>>>> shelf
>>>>>> that the blind cannot read; must all my books be audio? I have clocks
>>>>>> in
>>>>>> my
>>>>>> home that the blind cannot use to tell the time; must all my clocks be
>>>>>> talking. I drive a car that the blind cannot drive. This is not me
>>>>>> being
>>>>>> unsympathetic to the blind or to the cause of the blind, it is me
>being
>>>>>> realistic in my reality. There is technology that the blind cannot use
>>>>>> because they are blind. Sorry, FACT! There is technology that cannot
>be
>>>>>> made
>>>>>> available to the blind due to our level of technology at this time.
>>>>>> Touch
>>>>>> screens in use by many devices again come to mind. Can't we focus on
>>>>>> what
>>>>>> can be done and what needs to be done. Not on minor issues as that
>>>>>> below?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dr. Maurer should rethink his position regarding Amazon, waste not his
>>>>>> energy on such nonsense and concentrate on those things which actually
>>>>>> help
>>>>>> our cause. Senselessly attacking anything that is not "blind friendly"
>>>>>> actually hurts the cause. Using some common sense in choosing the
>>>>>> issues
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> tackle is important to our cause.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Lets tone down the rhetoric and concentrate on issues that help our
>>>>>> blind
>>>>>> friends and make the public aware of their real needs and not insist
>on
>>>>>> unnecessary requirements that turn the public against us and out cause
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> make us look like foolish fanatics. Stop hurting our cause with self
>>>>>> serving
>>>>>> rhetoric.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Steve Terry
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: <tosheeler at cox.net>
>>>>>> To: <bkshfreeman at gmail.com>; <bfreeman0420 at gmail.com>;
>>>>>> <vtscott at cox.net>;
>>>>>> <leaann1967 at gmail.com>; <j.scholes at sbcglobal.net>;
>>>>>> <bogan1265 at yahoo.com>;
>>>>>> <geofynder at gmail.com>; <Gogetm00 at aol.com>; <hayleyksch at gmail.com>;
>>>>>> <dave.mehler at gmail.com>; <walkercutoff at att.net>;
>>>>>> <Donna.Walker at arkansas.gov>; <Matt.Lyles at arkansas.gov>;
>>>>>> <lyles_j at sbcglobal.net>; <honestblindman at gmail.com>;
><pat.nfb at att.net>;
>>>>>> <bkkindle at yahoo.com>; <Teddey3000 at aol.com>; <james.worley at cox.net>;
>>>>>> <twedwards1111 at gmail.com>; <anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com>;
>>>>>> <deweycoursey at cox.net>;
>>>>>> <lizngraves at yahoo.com>; <erp at uark.edu>; <mika_hooper at yahoo.com>;
>>>>>> <Matteri at cox.net>; <donbrey at gmail.com>; <trinitymlovell at gmail.com>;
>>>>>> <clj_smith at yahoo.com>; <hayleyksch at gmail.com>;
><arspurplegirl at cox.net>;
>>>>>> <delreal93 at yahoo.com>; <ctroby at uark.edu>; <e.yarberry at gmail.com>;
>>>>>> <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>; <gvwright2 at juno.com>;
>>>>>> <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>; <lhwayland at sbcglobal.net>;
>>>>>> <joshcrunkleton at gmail.com>; <showard826 at gmail.com>;
><jsexson at live.com>;
>>>>>> <sflesher at yahoo.com>; <diane403bill at suddenlink.net>;
>>>>>> <abhoxeng at yahoo.com>;
>>>>>> <hoxeng at aol.com>; <barefootinar at yahoo.com>;
>>>>>> <Terrysteve at suddenlink.net>;
>>>>>> <peter-hoffman at att.net>; <kaylaltodd at gmail.com>
>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, October 02, 2011 6:19 PM
>>>>>> Subject: Fwd: National Federation of the Blind Condemns Lack of Access
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> New Kindle Fire
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> From: "Freeh, Jessica" <JFreeh at nfb.org>
>>>>>>> To: Alpidio Rolon <arguza at attglobal.net>, Amy Buresh
>>>>>>> <amy.buresh74 at gmail.com>,
>>>>>> Art Schreiber <blindart at samobile.net>, Beth Rival
><erival at comcast.net>,
>>>>>> Bill
>>>>>> Packee <alaskanfb at yahoo.com>, Bob Kresmer <krezguy at cox.net>, Carl
>>>>>> Jacobsen
>>>>>> <office at nfbny.org>, Cassandra McNabb <cemcnabb21 at yahoo.com>, Cathy
>>>>>> Jackson
>>>>>> <cathyj at iglou.com>, Charlene Smyth <cs.nfbwv at verizon.net>, "Christine
>>>>>> G.
>>>>>> Hall" <c.tessa4 at comcast.net>, Dan Hicks <danjhicks at yahoo.com>, Daniel
>>>>>> Burke
>>>>>> <burke.dall at gmail.com>, Don Galloway <dgalloway627 at gmail.com>, Donna
>>>>>> Wood
>>>>>> <donnajwood at cox.net>, Duane Iverson <diverson at samobile.net>, Elsie
>>>>>> Dickerson
>>>>>> <elsiedickerson at ymail.com>, Frank Lee <francois57 at comcast.net>,
>>>>>> Franklin
>>>>>> Shiner <fshiner at myfairpoint.net>, Fred Schroeder <fschroeder at sks.com>,
>>>>>> Garrick Scott <gscott at nfbga.org>, Gary Ray <ghraynfbofnc at charter.net>,
>>>>>> Gary
>>>>>> Wunder <gwunder at earthlink.net>, Grace Pires <silvara at cox.net>, "J.W.
>>>>>> Smith"
>>>>>> <jwsmithnfb at verizon.net>, James Antonacci <president at nfbp.org>,
>Jeannie
>>>>>> Massay <Jmassay1 at cox.net>, Jennifer Dunnam
>>>>>> <jennifer.dunnam1829 at gmail.com>,
>>>>>> Joe Ruffalo <nfbnj at yahoo.com>, John Batron <jbatron at maine.rr.com>,
>John
>>>>>> Fritz
>>>>>> <johnfritz at centurytel.net>, Joy Harris <joy.harris at dwx.com>, Joyce
>>>>>> Scanlan
>>>>>> <joyce.scanlan at earthlink.net>, Ken Rollman <gatorbumps at rushmore.com>,
>>>>>> Kim
>>>>>> Williams <rkvend at aol.com>, Kimberly Flores <kflores at nfb-texas.org>,
>>>>>> Larry
>>>>>> Posont <president.nfb.mi at gmail.com>, Lynn Majewski
><majla at verizon.net>,
>>>>>> Mary
>>>>>> Willows <mwillows at sbcglobal.net>, Melissa Riccobono
>>>>>> <melissa at riccobono.us>,
>>>>>> Michael Barber <michael.NFBI at gmail.com>, Michael Freeman
>>>>>> <k7uij at panix.com>,
>>>>>> Mika Pyyhkala <pyyhkala at gmail.com>, Nani Fife <nanifife at aol.com>, Pam
>>>>>> Allen
>>>>>> <pallen at lcb-ruston.com>, Parnell Diggs <parnell at sccoast.net>, Patti
>>>>>> Chang
>>>>>> <pattichang at att.net>, Rena Smith <realhappygirl1 at gmail.com>, Ron Brown
>>>>>> <rb15 at iquest.net>, "Gardner, Ron" <RGardner at nfb.org>, Sam Gleese
>>>>>> <SGleese at city.jackson.ms.us>, Scott LaBarre <slabarre at labarrelaw.com>,
>>>>>> Terry
>>>>>> Sheeler <tosheeler at cox.net>
>>>>>>> Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2011 13:50:08 -0700
>>>>>>> Subject: National Federation of the Blind Condemns Lack of Access to
>>>>>>> New
>>>>>> Kindle Fire
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> CONTACT:
>>>>>>> Chris Danielsen
>>>>>>> Director of Public Relations
>>>>>>> National Federation of the Blind
>>>>>>> (410) 659-9314, extension 2330
>>>>>>> (410) 262-1281 (Cell)
>>>>>>> cdanielsen at nfb.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> National Federation of the Blind Condemns
>>>>>>> Lack of Access to New Kindle Fire
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Baltimore, Maryland (September 29, 2011): The National Federation of
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> Blind commented today on the release of Amazon's new Kindle Fire,
>>>>>>> which
>>>>>>> cannot be used by people who are blind.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the Blind,
>>>>>>> said:
>>>>>>> "Blind Americans have repeatedly asked Amazon to include
>accessibility
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> the blind in its Kindle product line. The feasibility of including
>>>>>>> accessibility in similar products has been demonstrated. The
>>>>>>> Department
>>>>>>> of Education and the Department of Justice have made it clear that
>>>>>>> Kindle
>>>>>>> devices cannot be purchased by educational institutions, libraries,
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> other entities covered by this country's disability laws unless the
>>>>>>> devices are fully accessible. Despite all this, Amazon has released
>a
>>>>>>> brand new Kindle device, the Kindle Fire, which cannot be used by
>>>>>>> people
>>>>>>> who are blind. Enough! We condemn this latest action by Amazon and
>>>>>>> reiterate that we will not tolerate technological discrimination.
>The
>>>>>>> National Federation of the Blind seeks nothing less than equal access
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> all technology for blind people. It is one of the most critical
>civil
>>>>>>> rights issues facing blind Americans in the twenty-first century, and
>>>>>>> we
>>>>>>> will do everything in our power to see that this right is secured."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ###
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> About the National Federation of the Blind
>>>>>>> With more than 50,000 members, the National Federation of the Blind
>is
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> largest and most influential membership organization of blind people
>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>> the United States. The NFB improves blind people's lives through
>>>>>>> advocacy, education, research, technology, and programs encouraging
>>>>>>> independence and self-confidence. It is the leading force in the
>>>>>>> blindness field today and the voice of the nation's blind. In
>January
>>>>>>> 2004 the NFB opened the National Federation of the Blind Jernigan
>>>>>>> Institute, the first research and training center in the United
>States
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> the blind led by the blind.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nfb-talk mailing list
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>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>
>
>--
>Nimer M. Jaber
>
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