[nfb-talk] respect was RE: guide bots

[David Andrews]

As long as you keep giving him your business he won't change.\

Dave

At 05:20 PM 5/31/2013, you wrote:
>You guys sound like Democrats!
>Give everything unconditionally!
>Respect is to be earned!
>If you want respect, you must give it!
>We shouldn't give those people respect, if they don't respect us in return!
>It's a two-way street!
>I just got a haircut today, and my barber, who has known me since I 
>was a baby, still insists that I put my hand on his shoulder, 
>instead of just letting me use my cane to get into the barbershop!
>He doesn't understand, although I've told him 100 times, that I 
>could just use my cane and follow him!
>BTW, putting my hand on his shoulder isn't propper "sighted guide," 
>and I've told him that, time and time again, to no avail!
>Like Chris said, I've thrown up my hands, and given up on him!
>Blessings, Joshua
>________________________________________
>From: nfb-talk [nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Anjelina 
>[anjelinac26 at gmail.com]
>Sent: Friday, May 31, 2013 5:09 PM
>To: NFB Talk Mailing List
>Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Guide Bots
>
>Wow! That's quite harsh to call a group of people stupid. Even if 
>they don't understand what you think they should.
>
>Sent from Anjelina's iPhone
>
>On May 31, 2013, at 3:16 PM, Joshua Lester <JLester8462 at pccua.edu> wrote:
>
> > That's the term I use for the stupid ones that no matter how many 
> times you correct them, they just don't get it!
> > Good grief!
> > There is a difference between ignorant, and stupid.
> > The ignorant ones actually want to know, but the stupid ones just 
> don't care.
> > Blessings, Joshua
> > ________________________________________
> > From: nfb-talk [nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Sheila 
> Leigland [sleigland at bresnan.net]
> > Sent: Friday, May 31, 2013 2:11 PM
> > To: NFB Talk Mailing List
> > Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Guide Bots
> >
> > hi I agree completely on this one. Part of showing respect is not using
> > terms that can e insulting to others.
> > On 5/31/2013 12:18 PM, Eddie Salcido wrote:
> >> I know this message is late, but I'd like to address something that Joshua
> >> said.  He called sighted people sighties.  How is that different 
> from people
> >> calling us blinks or blindies?  How can we expect to have a 
> mature dialogue
> >> with people when we use such terms?
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: nfb-talk [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Joshua
> >> Lester
> >> Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 1:02 PM
> >> To: NFB Talk Mailing List
> >> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Guide Bots
> >>
> >> Brian!
> >> It's not that I have all kinds of problems, but it's that the ignorance is
> >> getting old!
> >> We need to do more as blind individuals to educate the sighties 
> about us, so
> >> we don't have to deal with the ignorance for much longer.
> >> Blessings, Joshua
> >> ________________________________________
> >> From: nfb-talk [nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Bryan Schulz
> >> [b.schulz at sbcglobal.net]
> >> Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 2:58 PM
> >> To: NFB Talk Mailing List
> >> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Guide Bots
> >>
> >> hi,
> >>
> >> if that gets you torqed, you've got more problems than that!
> >> Bryan Schulz
> >>
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "Joshua Lester" <JLester8462 at pccua.edu>
> >> To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
> >> Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 2:45 PM
> >> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Guide Bots
> >>
> >>
> >>> Hi, Mrs. Gloria!
> >>> I get so tired of ignorant ideots calling my cane a "stick!"
> >>> Blessings, Joshua
> >>> ________________________________________
> >>> From: nfb-talk [nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Gloria Whipple
> >>> [glowhi at centurylink.net]
> >>> Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 2:35 PM
> >>> To: 'Misty Dawn Bradley'; 'NFB Talk Mailing List'
> >>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Guide Bots
> >>>
> >>> Hi Misty,
> >>>
> >>> I agree with you on the GPS.
> >>>
> >>> I have had people tell me to leave my stick if I am going sighted guide
> >>> with
> >>> them. I tell them that my so called stick is part of me. I don't leave
> >>> home
> >>> without it.
> >>>
> >>> Gloria Whipple
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: nfb-talk [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Misty
> >>> Dawn
> >>> Bradley
> >>> Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 10:42
> >>> To: NFB Talk Mailing List
> >>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Guide Bots
> >>>
> >>> I am the same way. I have been using my cane since I was in kindergarten
> >>> or
> >>> first grade, which is about 20 years ago, so I don't feel right when I
> >>> don't
> >>>
> >>> have my cane with me. I also like the challenge of figuring out things on
> >>> my
> >>>
> >>> own, although it is nice to have a GPS sometimes, but it is not a
> >>> necessity.
> >>> Misty
> >>>
> >>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>> From: "Gloria Whipple" <glowhi at centurylink.net>
> >>> To: "'NFB Talk Mailing List'" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
> >>> Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 1:33 PM
> >>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Guide Bots
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> I am not sure about this. I am so use to using my cane and like it.
> >>>>
> >>>> Gloria Whipple
> >>>>
> >>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>> From: nfb-talk [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Steve
> >>>> Jacobson
> >>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 10:28
> >>>> To: NFB Talk Mailing List
> >>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Guide Bots
> >>>>
> >>>> Mike,
> >>>>
> >>>> To me, the idea of a device that is responsible for guiding, 
> even if made
> >>>> simpler as described here, adds so much complexity and
> >>>> size that really has limited advantage to my way of thinking.  A small
> >>>> device that could be mounted on a cane or connected to a
> >>>> dog's leash to detect objects and provide feedback would provide most of
> >>>> what a guiding device would without the size and other
> >>>> complicating issues.  Why does it have to aim itself at all if the blind
> >>>> person were to receive enough information to do the
> >>>> aiming from a smaller travel aid?
> >>>>
> >>>> Best regards,
> >>>>
> >>>> Steve Jacobson
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On Tue, 28 May 2013 11:24:59 -0400, Michael Bullis wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> I've been thinking about a new travel device lately and would be
> >>>>> interested
> >>>>> in any feedback members might have.
> >>>>> I've been wondering lately if there is enough reasonably 
> priced portable
> >>>>> processing power available to make a guide bot.
> >>>>> From looking on the web there are a few projects, mostly not very
> >>>>> efficient
> >>>>> ones.  There is a company called nst that is working on it 
> but expects to
> >>>>> bring a product to market in the 2020's.  The reason most 
> projects are so
> >>>>> difficult is that they are spending inordinate amounts of 
> time and money
> >>>>> teaching the guide bots to climb stairs and fully "lead" the blind
> >>>>> person.
> >>>>> We know this is unnecessary.
> >>>>> If you remove the necessity to "lead" the blind person the project
> >>>>> becomes
> >>>>> much simpler.
> >>>>> The device doesn't need to climb stairs.  The blind person can simply
> >>>>> lift
> >>>>> it up or down.  This assumes of course that it is a 
> lightweight  device.
> >>>>> For example, suppose you have a two wheeled device with two forward
> >>>>> facing
> >>>>> cameras  and a handle on it that you direct.  You push the device down
> >>>>> the
> >>>>> sidewalk let's say.  When it detects an object that you 
> should go around,
> >>>> to
> >>>>> the left, the left wheel has a brake on it.  When the left 
> brake engages
> >>>> and
> >>>>> slows the left wheel, the device naturally turns that direction.  The
> >>>>> same
> >>>>> thing happens if you want to go right.  If there's a curb coming, both
> >>>>> wheels slowly engage their brakes.
> >>>>> At any time, if you as the person in charge wish to override 
> the braking,
> >>>>> you simply give a quick shove to the device.
> >>>>> The blind person provides the forward motion, eliminating any need for
> >>>>> motive power.  The only thing the device needs power for is processing
> >>>>> and
> >>>>> braking.
> >>>>> Whether verbally, or with a small keypad, you tell the device what you
> >>>>> want
> >>>>> it to do.  If the device is going to talk to you at all it needs to be
> >>>>> through an open-ear earbud.  But this may be unnecessary.
> >>>>> I believe it would require two cameras for measuring distance and for
> >>>>> scanning both in front and to the sides.
> >>>>> In order for the device to be practical it would have to solve problems
> >>>> that
> >>>>> the cane and most dogs don't solve.  That is, it would have to detect
> >>>>> objects at head height.  And, it would have to be fast.  The thing that
> >>>>> limits a cane user in new territory is the necessity of slowing down
> >>>>> while
> >>>>> detecting an object and moving around it.
> >>>>> I place a list of things below that are within reach of today's
> >>>>> technology
> >>>>> but I'm not sure if they are within the practical financial 
> boundaries of
> >>>>> a
> >>>>> marketable device.
> >>>>> I thought those of you who think about matters like this might weigh in
> >>>>> on
> >>>>> this and let me know.
> >>>>> Here is my list of things the device could do.
> >>>>> 1.  avoiding objects-people and other interferences to the 
> path of travel
> >>>>> 2.  Detecting objects as high as one's head.
> >>>>> 3.  identifying curbs and ramps
> >>>>> 4.  recognizing intersecting sidewalks or other paths of travel
> >>>>> 5.  finding doors
> >>>>> 6.  locating up or down stairs
> >>>>> 7.  locating elevators
> >>>>> 8.  locating elevator buttons
> >>>>> 9.  finding restrooms
> >>>>> 10.  finding empty urinals
> >>>>> 11.  finding empty seats on busses or in conference rooms
> >>>>> 12.  returning to an already found seat
> >>>>> 13.  finding a bus stop
> >>>>> 14.  finding a specific address
> >>>>> 15.  following an indicated person
> >>>>> I'd be interested in feedback on this idea.
> >>>>> If you wish to write me off-line, do so at
> >>>>> mbullis at imagemd.org
> >>>>> Thanks for your thinking.
> >>>>> Mike