[nfb-talk] Guide Bots

Michael Bullis bullis.michael at gmail.com
Tue May 28 21:15:03 UTC 2013


First of all, a cane and a dog are two very different tools.  A cane relies
on proximity of information and investigation in order for the user to make
decisions about where he or she is going.  I would venture to say that in
many situations, particularly those in which the user is in unfamiliar
territory, the dog is faster because it evaluates some things that the blind
person doesn't.  For example.  The dog sees an obstacle and goes around it
without the blind person necessarily even knowing that the object was there.
But, many blind folks don't want dogs because of their maintenance issues
and often precisely because the dog insulates the blind person from the
environment in the ways I just described.
You can say to the dog, for example, "find the stairs."  And the dog will do
that.  Unfortunately, most dogs can't be told to find the up stairs as
opposed to the down stairs, but, they can do it.  
You might say to the dog, "find the sidewalk" and the dog would do that.
Dogs though are better on some days than others.  Sometimes they are more
alert than others.  These problems might be overcome with a bot and you
wouldn't have to feed, brush or take it outside.
Your question about why the thing would have to guide at all if it gave
enough information is a good one.  I've struggled with a way to describe a
device that could give enough information and haven't been able to describe
such a device.  Processing 3d information into a form that I can quickly use
is difficult or expensive.  One could perhaps describe some sort of tactile
live mapping that would tell me what is in front of me and at what distance
but every description of that becomes quickly very expensive.
Maybe there is a way though and I'd be interested in such ideas.
Mike


-----Original Message-----
From: nfb-talk [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Steve
Jacobson
Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 1:28 PM
To: NFB Talk Mailing List
Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Guide Bots

Mike,

To me, the idea of a device that is responsible for guiding, even if made
simpler as described here, adds so much complexity and size that really has
limited advantage to my way of thinking.  A small device that could be
mounted on a cane or connected to a dog's leash to detect objects and
provide feedback would provide most of what a guiding device would without
the size and other complicating issues.  Why does it have to aim itself at
all if the blind person were to receive enough information to do the aiming
from a smaller travel aid?  

Best regards,

Steve Jacobson


On Tue, 28 May 2013 11:24:59 -0400, Michael Bullis wrote:

>I've been thinking about a new travel device lately and would be 
>interested in any feedback members might have.

>I've been wondering lately if there is enough reasonably priced 
>portable processing power available to make a guide bot.

>From looking on the web there are a few projects, mostly not very 
>efficient ones.  There is a company called nst that is working on it 
>but expects to bring a product to market in the 2020's.  The reason 
>most projects are so difficult is that they are spending inordinate 
>amounts of time and money teaching the guide bots to climb stairs and fully
"lead" the blind  person.
>We know this is unnecessary.

>If you remove the necessity to "lead" the blind person the project 
>becomes much simpler.

>The device doesn't need to climb stairs.  The blind person can simply 
>lift it up or down.  This assumes of course that it is a lightweight
device.

>For example, suppose you have a two wheeled device with two forward 
>facing cameras  and a handle on it that you direct.  You push the 
>device down the sidewalk let's say.  When it detects an object that you 
>should go around, to the left, the left wheel has a brake on it.  When 
>the left brake engages and slows the left wheel, the device naturally 
>turns that direction.  The same thing happens if you want to go right.  
>If there's a curb coming, both wheels slowly engage their brakes.

>At any time, if you as the person in charge wish to override the 
>braking, you simply give a quick shove to the device.

>The blind person provides the forward motion, eliminating any need for 
>motive power.  The only thing the device needs power for is processing 
>and braking.

>Whether verbally, or with a small keypad, you tell the device what you 
>want it to do.  If the device is going to talk to you at all it needs 
>to be through an open-ear earbud.  But this may be unnecessary.

> 

>I believe it would require two cameras for measuring distance and for 
>scanning both in front and to the sides.

>In order for the device to be practical it would have to solve problems 
>that the cane and most dogs don't solve.  That is, it would have to 
>detect objects at head height.  And, it would have to be fast.  The 
>thing that limits a cane user in new territory is the necessity of 
>slowing down while detecting an object and moving around it.

> 

>I place a list of things below that are within reach of today's 
>technology but I'm not sure if they are within the practical financial 
>boundaries of a marketable device.

>I thought those of you who think about matters like this might weigh in 
>on this and let me know.

>Here is my list of things the device could do.

>1.  avoiding objects-people and other interferences to the path of 
>travel

>2.  Detecting objects as high as one's head.

>3.  identifying curbs and ramps

>4.  recognizing intersecting sidewalks or other paths of travel

>5.  finding doors

>6.  locating up or down stairs

>7.  locating elevators

>8.  locating elevator buttons

>9.  finding restrooms

>10.  finding empty urinals

>11.  finding empty seats on busses or in conference rooms

>12.  returning to an already found seat

>13.  finding a bus stop

>14.  finding a specific address

>15.  following an indicated person

> 

>I'd be interested in feedback on this idea.

>If you wish to write me off-line, do so at

>mbullis at imagemd.org

>Thanks for your thinking.

>Mike

> 

> 

> 

> 

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