[NFB-Talk] civil disobedience question

Jack Heim john at johnheim.com
Mon Jan 13 18:27:54 UTC 2020

Okay, I am willing to listen. What do we have today that we wouldn't 
have if the NFB hadn't fought for it?

The reason those of us with guide dogs have access to public places has 
nothing to do with the NFB. Guide dog schools pre-date the NFB and the 
NFB was not supportive of the ADA.

You're missing the point with respect to that essay by Dr. Jernigan. The 
point is not that today, most of us would consider his opinion wrong. 
Its that the reason he came out against guide dogs was because they 
inconvenienced the general public. Dr. Jernigan didn't believe in 
fighting for accommodations that would make the general public 
uncomfortable. Maybe that's a good thing. Maybe Dr. Jernigan was right 
and Adapt is wrong.

PS: It is extremely rude for you to accuse me of not having facts in a 
message where you do nothing but state your own totally unsubstantiated 
opinions. The only one who as actually provided facts here is me.

On 1/13/20 11:50 AM, mike at michaelhingson.com wrote:
> Jack,
> In fact, while you state part of the facts you do not tell the entire story.
> Dr. Jernigan later acknowledged that he was wrong.
> The NFB has done more toward advocating for the rights of blind persons than
> ANY organization. Best proof is the size of NAGDU both as a division as well
> as the amount of activity on this list.
> No, you are incorrect. The NFB knows ore about advocacy and defending our
> rights than anyone. If you read my earlier contribution to this thread you
> should have seen that even this organization is prepared to protest.
> I will not debate you further except to say that you need to get ALL your
> facts together before making the kind of broad sweeping comments you did
> here.
> Best Regards,
> Michael Hingson
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nFB-Talk On Behalf Of Jack Heim via nFB-Talk
> Sent: Monday, January 13, 2020 9:33 AM
> To: NFB Talk Mailing List <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Jack Heim <john at johnheim.com>; Chris Westbrook <westbchris at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [NFB-Talk] civil disobedience question
> You cannot learn anything about advocacy by asking the people on this list.
> All the people on this list can give you is their personal preferences --
> which on this list will very much tend toward the conservative. If you want
> to know whether a polite or a confrontational approach to protesting works
> better, you cannot learn that from the people on this lis, they don't know
> anything about advocacy.
> The NFB itself has been extraordinarily conservative over the years.  In
> 1995, the Braille Monitor held a debate over the use of guide dogs.
> https://www.nfb.org/sites/www.nfb.org/files/images/nfb/publications/bm/bm95/
> brlm9510.htm
> The extraordinary thing about that issue of the Braille Monitor was an essay
> by Kenneth Jernigan expressing his opinion that guide dogs were an
> unnecessary burden on society. So you can guess what he'd have thought of
> Adapt.
> On 1/13/20 9:10 AM, Chris Westbrook via nFB-Talk wrote:
>> I'm curious to know what my fellow NF members think of something. I am
>> on the board of a local organization here (not NFB or blindness
>> related) and some people from that organization decided to protest
>> lack of wheelchair access by totally disrupting the inauguration
>> ceremony for new politicians, to the point where they were arrested
>> and almost charged with disorderly conduct etc. As you can imagine
>> this has sparked some controversy. I don't want to get in to more
>> detail here as I am on the board and we haven't discussed things yet,
>> but i'm just curious if anyone feels such militant protests are ever
>> justified? I am inclined to say no and definitely not in this specific
>> case for other reasons I won't get into here. This protest was
>> apparently enabled/aided by ADAPT which seems to be a very in your
>> face organization that is bad news in my opinion. It seems to me that
>> such protests can only hurt our cause. I think we must be careful to
>> always behave with dignity and be the adults in the room so to speak.
> Curious what you all think.
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