[nfbcs] Blindness and Computer Science RE: (no subject)

Wed Feb 20 20:29:24 UTC 2013

Teehee. Love it! And all very good. Funny that not that long ago, C/C++, 
etc., was just too old school... So Ms. Too Cool For That Here now 
frequently wishes she'd taken time out to learn it! /lol/

On 02/20/2013 11:56 AM, William Grussenmeyer wrote:
> the anti-novel
> two words: mobile programming
> developers.android.com
> developer.apple.com
> languages to know: Java, ObjectiveC, C/C++
> good books on bookshare.org = easiest ones to read, anything too
> complicated is worthless
>
> You can hook your apple or android phone or tablet directly to your
> computer and download your app right in front of you.
>
> bill
>
>
>
> On 2/20/13, Tami Jarvis <tami at poodlemutt.com> wrote:
>> Zeeshan,
>>
>> Those are all great questions! I'll see if I can manage answers without
>> turning them into a novel. /smile/
>>
>> We just moved out into the sticks for family reasons, so what I do now
>> is wonder how the heck to get into programming somehow here. Which I've
>> done before, so we'll see how it goes. /smile/ I'm focusing on getting
>> my database skills back up to snuff, since I see more possibility to use
>> those for smaller businesses around here. So I'm using php for the
>> programming to build the user interface on my practice project. The
>> MySQL/php combination is so ubiquitous these days that it seems as good
>> a place to start as any, especially since most of my background is
>> web-based. I do need to pick a non-web language sooner or later to focus
>> on next. Even what I did know has changed so much that I just need to
>> relearn everything! /lol/
>>
>> I'm still getting information from the job market we just moved from,
>> and it's finally picking up after the long dearth. One thing I really
>> notice in those announcements is the focus on experience over education
>> in qualifications, even for the more advanced positions. Interesting.
>> Also, more mention of "related experience," which gives latitude for a
>> career-changer I should think.
>>
>> Challenges as a not-young career-change programmer... The biggest hurdle
>> I've had to overcome is the credibility gap that comes from lack of
>> sheepskin. But don't you have a degree? That gives you an edge right
>> there when it comes to having your ideas heard and implemented, which is
>> what leads to greater opportunity after you do get your foot in the
>> door. It can be really frustrating, but the solution is patience and a
>> whole lot of that extra time and effort just to prove yourself. But,
>> there, the advantage of having worked in other areas of business is that
>> you can demonstrate that you know a lot that the folks you're working
>> for will understand and appreciate. When it comes down to it, computer
>> skill and programming expertise is really great for advancing one's
>> career without absolutely needing to drop everything to polish off the
>> degree, which is how I ended up shifting into it. /smile/
>>
>> Also, those dreaded young kids who have been programming since they were
>> in diapers also have a whole lot of energy without necessarily having
>> gotten into those other life responsibilities us old and weary types
>> have. They can program circles around you all day, then go home and
>> spend the night learning all about the new stuff that is coming along
>> and getting good at it... I've learned to enjoy feeling stupid and left
>> behind because I can learn a lot from what they're learning. /smile/ I
>> just have to remember that I can leverage my overall experience and
>> maturity to keep up in ways they haven't learned to yet.
>>
>> I also need to target my off-the-job learning more efficiently, because
>> everything is always changing. What I know today will get me nowhere
>> tomorrow. So that counts as a challenge for sure, although that's what I
>> like about the field. There's a lot of tedium involved in many facets of
>> the programming process, but you never have time to just settle back and
>> get bored and complacent. /smile/
>>
>> I'd better end the novel now before I get myself in real trouble. I
>> found making the switch to programming and design and development to be
>> very worthwhile and keep coming back to that as my best option for
>> getting back into something I can do as a blind person here, if not so
>> conveniently as if there were, you know, jobs out here. /lol/ But all
>> that earlier business experience will come in real handy again as we get
>> settled and get back out for networking and all. I can, I hope
>> eventually, chat up some opportunity. /smile/
>>
>> Let us know how your further research goes and what you decide to do.
>>
>> Tami
>>
>>
>> On 02/19/2013 03:56 PM, Zeeshan Khan wrote:
>>> Hi Tami,
>>> Thanks for your thoughtful response.
>>>
>>> So what kind of programming do you do now? Do you think age plays a
>>> factor
>>> when it comes to learning programming because nowadays you have young
>>> kids
>>> in their teens becoming wizards at programming. It seems like your
>>> experience has been great a a programmer, what are some of the challenges
>>> you face being a programmer in general, not necessarily being blind, when
>>> it came to learning programming? Any specific resources you would be able
>>> ot point me to, as I am looking to get started right away.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Zeeshan
>>>
>>> On Tue, Feb 19, 2013 at 3:30 PM, Tami Jarvis <tami at poodlemutt.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi, and welcome!
>>>>
>>>> Like you, I got into programming along the way of my career and made a
>>>> career switch of it starting about the time I got to be legally blind. I
>>>> just happened to have the opportunity to pick up a project no one else
>>>> wanted, which led to a more advanced project, which got me hooked. I
>>>> could
>>>> also see the advantage of having those skills for the future because the
>>>> technology was coming along that would make it possible to continue to
>>>> do
>>>> it as I lost the ability to read along the way. Back then, it was a real
>>>> advantage to be able to read print because there wasn't the equivalent
>>>> wealth of accessible reading material there is now. Stuff happened, so
>>>> I'm
>>>> happy all that material I need to read is available in the formats I
>>>> need
>>>> now to get back up to snuff and advance my skills. Whew!
>>>>
>>>> Oddly, the new stuff I'm learning nonvisually from the get go is
>>>> actually
>>>> proving easier than what I'm re-learning that I learned visually and now
>>>> have to totally reconceptualize, especially for programming. That
>>>> doesn't
>>>> prove a thing, but I thought I'd mention it anyway. /smile/ The stuff I
>>>> used to need a pencil and drawing pad for on the design end is dratted
>>>> difficult, but since I know blind people who do it and have picked up
>>>> some
>>>> hints of how from them, I'm beginning to make headway even there. Whew!
>>>>
>>>> As for the bit where you need "a solid foundation in computer science"
>>>> ...
>>>> Generally, it is people who *aren't* in the field who come up with that
>>>> one. Real programmers these days seem to be more of the opinion -- and
>>>> so
>>>> am I -- that you can get going and accomplish quite a lot without
>>>> actually
>>>> knowing all the nitty gritty underlayers between your program and the
>>>> machine.
>>>>
>>>> That being said, it wouldn't hurt to read up on the machines themselves
>>>> if
>>>> you don't already have a general idea of how they work below the
>>>> surface.
>>>> Programming is really communicating with the machine in a way that makes
>>>> sense to it. Most modern programming languages enable you to do that by
>>>> using existing compilers that translate your instructions down to the
>>>> machine itself. So if you learn Java, say, you can focus on what is
>>>> there
>>>> and let the Java compiler take care of the rest. If that makes sense.
>>>> But
>>>> for learning purposes of *how* to use Java to do more than send
>>>> greetings
>>>> to the world or make balls bounce colorfully, I think it would be a
>>>> strength to understand how and why at least in a general way. But that
>>>> could be just me. /smile/
>>>>
>>>> Er... If you haven't really gotten started yet, I will translate my last
>>>> attempt at humor: "Hello, World!" That is the first program you will
>>>> ever
>>>> write in any programming language. /lol/ Then you will probably give
>>>> greetings in colorful text and... Well, it's a start, and I'm doing more
>>>> tutorials, and it's still there.
>>>>
>>>> Tami
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 02/18/2013 08:28 PM, Zeeshan Khan wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi Nicole,
>>>>> Yeah sorry about that, I realized I hadn't included a subject after I
>>>>> sent
>>>>> it.
>>>>>
>>>>> I am looking to establish a solid foundation in programming whether it
>>>>> be
>>>>> in programming for the computer or the internet. I really want to start
>>>>> out
>>>>> learning the basics and work my way up to being good enough to land a
>>>>> job
>>>>> hopefully.
>>>>>
>>>>> What I hear many people say is , if you don't have a solid foundation
>>>>> in
>>>>> computer science, it doesn't make sense to jump into different
>>>>> languages
>>>>> if
>>>>> you are a beginner.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at 8:15 PM, Nicole Torcolini
>>>>> <ntorcolini at wavecable.com>**wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>    What kind of programming are you thinking about? There is programming
>>>>>> that
>>>>>> runs on the computer itself and there is programming that works on the
>>>>>> internet. Both have high level and low level languages.
>>>>>> Also, on a side note, please include subjects in your emails in the
>>>>>> futures
>>>>>> as emails without subjects are often suspected of being spam or a
>>>>>> virus.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Nicole
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: nfbcs
>>>>>> [mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.**org<nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org>]
>>>>>> On Behalf Of Zeeshan Khan
>>>>>> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 8:09 PM
>>>>>> To: nfbcs at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> Subject: [nfbcs] (no subject)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am trying to learn programming and I am an absolute beginner. As a
>>>>>> legally
>>>>>> blind person I want to ask you all if anyone has learned programming
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> computer science as a blind person. The things is I have already
>>>>>> gotten
>>>>>> my
>>>>>> degree in economics about 3 years ago, so I am not sure if I am too
>>>>>> late
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> the field. So how did any of you learn computer science/  programming?
>>>>>> What
>>>>>> resources did you use? how long did it take you to become a decent
>>>>>> programmer, or at least good enough to land a job? I am not trying to
>>>>>> go
>>>>>> back to school and get a Bachelors as it own't really help me, plus I
>>>>>> don't
>>>>>> have the time as I am working. I really want to learn computer science
>>>>>> as I
>>>>>> am looking to make a career change, and the future is in technology. I
>>>>>> am
>>>>>> aware of many online resources, like codecademy, coursera and other
>>>>>> free
>>>>>> things online, but not sure if I should get into these, as I lack a
>>>>>> foundation in computer science. What is the job market like , in your
>>>>>> opinion?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I really look forward to hearing your thoughts and experiences,
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Zeeshan Khan
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ToiBooks
>>>>>> www.toibooks.com
>>>>>> http://www.facebook.com/**ToiBooks <http://www.facebook.com/ToiBooks>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
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